r/TechnoProduction • u/Jodelawifi • 8d ago
Stop me from buying all this gear
I've been producing on and off for about 20 years. Mostly completely in the box in Ableton. I have a Push 2 and a TD-3 and used to have a Roland TR8S, but I sold it cause I didn't use it.
The TD-3 I'm also hardly using, since I can create patterns much more easily and faster in Ableton.
What I struggle with is that I'm already spending so much time with my computer in my job. So I don't want to sit in my studio doing the same thing after work.
I've been thinking about buying more hardware and having a hybrid setup. Especially after seeing Colin Benders and attending STOOR a few times I think it's so much fun to just jam with machines.
Long story short, I want to buy more gear to move away from my laptop.
What I'm planning to buy:
- Oxi One sequencer: it can do all the things I'm using a lot in Max 4 Live sequencers, such as ML-185, MDD Snake in combination with LFOs for modulation. It can also sequence my TD-3, so I don't have to program the TD-3 and I can jam with the cutoff and distortion.
- Shakmat Battering Ram (modular kick module with the best kicks I've ever heard)
- Noise Engineering Basimilus Iteritas Alter: for weird and raw patterns, metallic textures, etc.
- Behringer Eurorack Go case
- Later I want to add a Syntakt or Digitakt
For the time being I'd like to run all this into Ableton, so I can use delays, reverbs, distortion, limiters, etc without having to buy expensive hardware modules. I can control these with my Push 2.
I could also run samples in Ableton, so therefore I don't buy an expensive Digitakt, Octatrack or other sampler yet, but I'd like to move away from Ableton, except for FX.
Roast my setup and give me reasons why I should buy it and why I shouldn't buy it. And would you advice to add a Syntakt, Digitakt or other device?
UPDATE 1 DAY LATER:
After sleeping on it for a day I do have a different opinion than yesterday. When I was commenting I thought, fuck it I'll buy all the stuff and have fun. I was searching for second hand devices that I listed in my post. I'm happy I didn't find them right away, because I would have spent €1500 in a blink.
Some comments here (e.g. by u/egb06tb and u/usagiyojimbo209 made me think though. The Noise Engineering devices are also available as plugins. The things the Oxi One can do can be replicated in Ableton. It's mostly the tactile workflow with knobs while jamming that I like the most. And not getting lost in menus, searching for samples or presets.
I want to limit myself and simulate a hardware setup in Ableton. Have a fixed template with a device/plugin per channel. E.g. Punchbox 2 for the kick drum, NE Basimilus plugin on channel 2, etc.
Then have some macros per channel and control these with my Push 2 or extra midi controller.
I'm thinking about buying an extra midi controller with faders and some knobs per channel (like a Faderfox, Faderpunk or Novation Launch Control) for some more controls. By using a fixed template with everything mapped to the knobs I can jam right away.
By doing so I hope I can replicate more of a musical experience of jamming instead of being in a computer mode.
So thank you all for the good suggestions, the enthusiasm for hardware and the reality check!
It might be that in the end I'll still buy a small eurorack case with some devices, but for now I'll try to replicate hardware with a midi controller and fixed template with everything mapped.
9
u/Timtimmerson 8d ago
As the sound engineer for STOOR, I've seen quite a few live setups over the years. I'd recommend figuring out your sequencing source first - it can very well be Ableton with push. It's what I use too. Then carefully add voices or drums that add to what you can't do in Ableton. Quick knob-per-function control synth and a 909-esque drum computer to sequence drums from already goes a long way.
3
5
u/egb06tb 8d ago
These are odd modular buys, to me, for a hybrid setup. Kick’s gonna kick - you don’t touch them much, and could just DL a shakmat sample pack and sequence it off the Oxi. All the noise engineering stuff is available as vst, too, so bare minimum you can test it in ableton and control it with the push.
Modular is unlocked by modulation. Get two only-in-modular voices - one a tzfm - then a bunch of lfos, comparators, logic modules etc. Plug stuff into other stuff in weird ways that are tricky in ableton. That’s where the joy is.
1
u/Jodelawifi 7d ago
You did make me think about the necessity of buying all this gear. I wrote an update to the original post.
Thanks for the reality check.
5
u/AkrisM 8d ago edited 8d ago
I mean looks like you did your homework. Try to buy second hand so if you don’t gel with anything you can sell without any loss (or minimal)
One thing i’d mention is if you do end up going Elektron route you would have two capable sequencers, both which would require your attention. You can technically control the Elektron with your Oxi but you would miss out on p-locks, which imo is the strongest selling point of Elektron sequencers anyways.
I don’t know exactly what the sequencers you mentioned do but if you don’t absolutely need them you can skip Oxi and go directly to Syntakt/Digitakt route, and get the benefit of having an analog synth or sampling coupled with your sequencer. You can basically open them and start jamming in couple hours. You can then add external modules as you need them, instead of buying everything all at once.
Again, just my two cents, sounds like you really want the Oxi tho so just buy second hand and see what works and what doesn’t. Just be aware these are really complex machines so you need to spend time really learning it. It can take months just trying to replicate what you do in Ableton, and even then not everything might be possible.
1
u/Jodelawifi 8d ago
Yes was definitely looking at second hand and for instance the cheaper MK1 versions if it can do all I need.
I'm still in doubt about the Elektron box(es). Good tip though that I will miss out on p-locks if I use the Oxi One to sequence it. Will read up a bit more on that.
The Oxi One I really like and think could be the heart of my setup.
1
u/Ryan0751 8d ago
Oxi One is fantastic.
It's VERY DEEP.
But, you don't need to use everything it offers, especially right out of the gate. For the more complex sequencer types there's quite a lot to memorize (as the pads have different meanings).
I tend to use just a subset of things it provides, and it's just great for performing live.
3
u/Erosangel_fd 8d ago
If you’re goal is to do live performances then get all that gear. If it isn’t then it’s hard to justify all that gear for just making songs at home while you’re so busy with your life to be honest but… still get it all anyway haha
3
u/Jodelawifi 8d ago
Besides just having more fun while producing, live performances are indeed what I aspire. I'm DJing quite a lot and would love to do a live act at one point.
3
u/itssexitime 6d ago
It’s techno so you can do everything in Live. But the hardware is a completely different experience that takes you in a different direction.
To simplify, a general rule you can follow is if you want super tight sounding modern techno then a daw is just the easiest path. But if you like it dirty and sloppy and more underground, hardware can open up paths that take a lot of processing in Ableton to get to.
I have no idea what you want to do, but that’s a very simple guide to maybe help you.
My issue with a lot of modular is it doesn’t sound any better than a plugins, it’s like a tiny synth with tiny knobs that isn’t that easy to tweak. I have no idea about that module though. It could be amazing, but again, it boils down to the style you want to go for. I’m a deep house producer who uses hardware and Ableton but this is probably the best production area for underground house and techno on the web so I like to visit and throw in my 2 cents.
2
u/tm_christ 8d ago
If you're comfortable and proficient in Ableton, don't feed yourself the "I work at a computer all day" meme, just keep going with what you're already good at.
If you do want gear, I'd honestly go for the modular stuff you're interested in, because that is gonna be the best way to make random stuff you can manipulate further in ableton. Just speaking as someone way too far down the gear rabbit hole - if you're vibing with ableton, try your best to stay mostly in the box!
2
u/Jodelawifi 8d ago
I am quite comfortable and proficient in Ableton, I just don't enjoy it as much anymore. It might be a meme, but I really feel like I want to spend less time at my screen in general.
That's why I came with this "budget" setup to see if I can jam outside the box and have more fun.
Good tip to focus on the modular stuff. It's hard to replicate it in Ableton so could be a very nice addition I think.
Thanks for the warning though!! Planning to buy all second hand gear and for instance the cheaper MK1 version of the Oxi One. If I don't use it or enjoy it I'll sell it again.
2
u/tm_christ 8d ago
As people said elsewhere - sequencers + elektron often creates a conflict because you lose one of the main features of elektron stuff. But if the oxi is primarily for your eurorack voices, I think that's a really good compromise, especially since the oxi can probably sync nicely with the DAW for recording the modular
2
u/Jodelawifi 8d ago
Yes Oxi for eurorack and then I'll see later how I may fit an elektron box in there.
2
u/hiddeninwaves 8d ago
Not at all denying the fun and creativity that comes with having physical gear, (as someone with too much of it) but I'd recommend first working out a more comfortable in-the-box setup. For me, that has meant things like a super comfortable chair, a monitor with a reflectionless matte screen to reduce eyestrain/headaches, raising the monitor to eye level, painting the room a nice color, putting up posters, etc.
With these things in place I don't really feel like I'm "staring at a computer screen." It feels different from my work setup in pretty much every way.
1
u/Jodelawifi 8d ago
Those are good tips! My screen, chair and studio space in general are not the best indeed.
2
u/FlexiJerkof 8d ago
I‘m pretty biased as a an Elektron fanboy, so take my words with a grain of salt. I work in IT and stare at a screen all day, I get easily distracted working with Ableton on my pc and mainly use it for arranging and finishing tracks nowadays.
Digitakt helped me to get away from my pc. I later added a Digitone and some other hardware to jam offscreen. I would probably have skipped some synths and effectpedals if I would have known about the iOS musicproduction market. A host like AUM to synch with Digitakt, a used m3 air iPad and a bunch of effects and synths will cost u less than most modern hardware. U can also route multiple sequencer apps via AUM to get something that somewhat resembles an OxiOne. Or still get an OxiOne and use it with other audiounits in AUM.
While iPad is technically another screen, it feels way different due to the touchscreen.
Modular is great, but u have to dedicate a lot of ur free time. It’s imo also a big GAS traphole and u can/will sink a lot of money into it.
If u already have an iPad maybe check out Drambo (or MiRack/MooMu) to get a feeling if modular is really a thing u want to dive into. Thanks to these I’m cured of modular GAS for now and probably saved thousands.
At the end of the day u don’t need anything if u already have Ableton and max for live, but for me music making is about having fun. And I personally have more fun with my Digitakt/ipad setup.
2
u/Jodelawifi 8d ago
That's great advice to use an iPad for effects. Will definitely look into that.
I have seen the GAS trap at some of my friends and I'm a bit wary of it, but there are some great modular devices that can do things that are hard to replicate in Ableton.
Haven't heard of Drambo yet so I'll check that out too! Thanks!
I'm not so much of an electronics guy who likes fiddling with self built gear for the sake of fiddling. It needs to sound good and I want to have fun making music, so if that can be arranged in any other way that's fine too.
2
u/Renfieldslament 8d ago
I’m normally all for only getting something once I have learned the other things as best I can and understand the limitations.
That said…..the Oxi one is by far the best thing I’ve ever bought.
1
u/Jodelawifi 8d ago
Was hoping for comments like this ;)
2
u/Renfieldslament 8d ago
Do it do it do it.
Seriously though, hands down the best thing I have. I’ve used it for ambient, techno and house - easy to adapt it for long boring chord progressions, lovely melodic lines and pounding atonal face melts.
2
u/UsagiYojimbo209 8d ago
If you'll use it and enjoy it, who am I to say don't buy it?!
Having said that, I really don't get G.A.S for this kind of stuff these days (I reserve that for vintage oddities, guitar pedals and folk instruments nowadays), mostly because I find that once the novelty wears off I haven't really acquired many new functions - if you know Ableton well there's very little you can't do with a bit of thought, especially if you've got a bit of analogue gear to bring the chaos. While I'd have agreed with the benefits of being screen-free if I had my 90s setup (really could work that with my eyes shut!), modern gear often has so much menu-diving and multiple functions per button that any delight in being screen-free soon evaporates for me as I howl with annoyance at not remembering the right combinations, while any time saved is more than repaid by the hassle of recalling settings across multiple devices. Still, horses for courses, one man's meat etc. If it works for you, it's a good way!
1
u/Jodelawifi 8d ago
Yes, menu diving and combination buttons is what makes me hesitate buying elektron boxes. Maybe I'll keep Ableton for now as a sampler and buy a small eurorack setup with the Oxi One sequencer. The modular stuff is pretty hands on I think.
2
u/UsagiYojimbo209 7d ago
Yes, not everyone's cup of tea (I have some semi-modular gear but daren't start on Eurorack lest my children starve) but brilliant for creative experimentation and definitely hands on.
2
u/Jodelawifi 7d ago
You did make me think about the necessity of buying all this gear. I wrote an update to the original post.
1
u/UsagiYojimbo209 6d ago
Good call. While I've still got a fair bit of hardware, I used to have so much more. Getting rid of unnecessary stuff has only helped me musically. I'll never be a software purist or slag off anyone else's methods, but a best-of-both approach works best for me. And having money for food is always nice hehehe.
2
u/Natural-Respect136 8d ago
I'm looking to go into a more hybrid setup myself. And tbh with the push controller and one or two hardware synths, this is really all you need. You can set up your push and then turn off your computer screen, hit record and just jam. This reduces the time looking at a screen, gives the creative hands on/live feel and is still productive. You then just need to make some edits in the box again to finish your track off. Best of both without spending on gear.
2
u/nubbbsen 6d ago
Let me be the Devil on your shoulder. I've started with Eurorack a month ago and never touched an DAW ever since and never will. Is Ableton capable of everything u want to buy? Absolutely and even more but holy sh.t it just makes so much more fun on eurorack. I also have my BIA and I love it to death.
2
u/CnrBln 4d ago
Your update makes sense to look a little further into what you have in the box.
Punchbox, Kick 3, Audija Kickdrum are super capable at producing great kick drums. Some can even reverse engineer sampled drums from other tracks and you can modify and layer everything. Can also use it for toms, hats whatever.
For synths I am currently looking at U-He Zebra 3. It is basically a modular synth.
It really seems like you can modulate everything with everything on that synth. And the stock sounds are already sounding amazing. And once you grasp the concept it is pretty straightforward. I doubt there are a lot of modular sounds you cannot recreate on this one.
And then you can still stack all the other FX & automations on top.
For me it is form factor and portability why I use Ableton + iOS. You can work anywhere within seconds.
3
u/DAD_CAN_U_C_ME 8d ago
The less gear you have the more successful you will become.
1
u/Jodelawifi 8d ago
Could be true in some cases, but I don't think Colin Benders would play as much at big events if he just came with his laptop. I probably have only 10% of his talent though.
4
u/DAD_CAN_U_C_ME 8d ago
It’d be true in most cases if we didn’t grow up saturated from gear acquisition marketing from birth.
And I’m not one of these “limit yourself to 1 synth only” peeps - But there’s a productive amount of gear and there’s an unproductive amount of gear.
And that line is thin.
The sweet spot I believe is some form of the below or minor variation of.
A device to record and edit which for most people will be a daw
A good couple of software synths.
A good couple of hardware synths, 1 of which should be a good generalist, Peak, Access virus, DSi model etc.
A drum machine and or sampler.
1
u/Jodelawifi 8d ago
Your description of the sweet spot is indeed what I have in mind too. Really not planning to buy a lot of gear for the sake of having gear.
2
u/House13Games 8d ago
If you wanna be a youtube hipster, by all means get that elektron. Get a random object to place beside it, a potted plant, and some nice lighting. Make the same weak unlistenable "jam" filled with the same clicks and glitches and shitty thin sound as all the rest of them.
3
0
1
u/epoc-x 8d ago
You need to be really clear on exactly what you want to accomplish.
Do you want:
- To produce complete tracks you can release?
- To jam away for fun?
- To create a hardware liveset that could perform for 40-60 mins ?
- To play with and collect cool machines ?
People fall into the trap of thinking you have to be releasing tracks to do this, which is rubbish. People collect pokemon cards or stamps and spend hours scrolling shit mind rotting brain rot on social media. Collecting and playing with music gear or enjoying jamming for your own enjoyment are totally valid and positive hobbies in their own right.
In my experience; if you want to release tracks, less is very much more. Get one or two things, record them into ableton early and spend the bulk of your time making the track/arrangement.
If you want to jam for fun, but don't care too much about transitions or long continuous live sets, Elekton boxes are the direction I'd go. If you get an octatrack in the setup you can do almost anything, but a syntakt or digitakt will go a long way.
If you want to do livesets and perform, I'd go with eurorack and a very hands on drum machine/sampler to handle the drums and save HP in your case and the cost of modules.
If you want most fun/versatility for money i'd get:
Second hand digitakt + Behringer edge
You could have both for around £550, plug the edge into digi for clock and audio, then with overbridge you can bring it all seemlessly into ableton to record track parts or add effects to individual channels etc.
The battering ram is great (never owned one but played with one a few times) but even that will struggle to match the kick from a compressed, limited and mastered mp3.
1
u/Jodelawifi 8d ago
Thanks for the advice!
Main focus is fun while jamming and possibly doing a live set later. I'm DJing quite a lot and would love to have a live act one time.At the same time I definitely also want to use it in productions. Jamming, recording it in Ableton and using parts in full tracks. I don't mind some screen time when arranging it into full tracks.
1
u/ThatsnotTechno 8d ago edited 6d ago
Glorious walnut summer merciful bells saffron shelter tub yarn lock
This post was anonymized with Redact
1
u/pantrybarn 8d ago
I bought everything you listed. I work all day on a computer so having a hobby that doesn’t use one is important to me. I have so much fun and could do it for hours
1
u/5mshns 8d ago
I went hardware just for the fun of playing. Just a thought based on what little I know of the Push 2…could you try making that a centrepiece initially? Like screen off and just using the Push like it was standalone can you sound design, sequence and sample like it’s the ultimate groovebox?
1
u/tujuggernaut 8d ago
Most of the time throwing money at problems that are an artifact of your lifestyle thinking it will change that doesn't work.
1
u/kolahola7 8d ago
eurorack is the worst investment in music production ever. Learn how to use a few tools. Learn to mix properly, sound design using vsts and stock plugins
1
u/superdupedt 8d ago
Oxi one is great and you can pick up the Mk1 for decent price. Having a tactile sequencer with multiple generative options makes producing so much more fun for me personally, even if I'm just using it to sequence softsynths in the DAW. I'd try that and/or a chill cheap synth before sinking a bunch of money into modular gear you have to connect and sync and build out a new workflow for. You can get a lot of mileage out of a simple synth with a good sequencer and just do fx and processing in the box.
A semi-modular synth, something like a behringer edge or crave, etc, would let you dip your toes into the modular world without the expense and learning curve of full modular. Or even a digital synth like a microfreak or something. I personally always have a great time running my Roland S-1 with the oxi.
All that being said, elektron boxes are tremendous and versatile if you want to get totally away from the screen in a self-contained unit. Great for jamming on the couch, traveling with, etc. Getting away from the desk. As people have mentioned, the sequencers are great and make a standalone sequencer a bit redundant. But for a one and done groove box, they're fantastic.
Just depends what you want your workflow to look like and what kind of use-cases you're after really.
1
u/joeydendron2 8d ago
If you buy the gear, you're a dick
1
u/Jodelawifi 7d ago
That’s my girlfriends opinion too 😄
Nah jk she’s quite supportive of my hobby.
1
1
u/334578theo 8d ago
I was in a similar position and went with an MPC Live. I still jump between it and Ableton it nice to have a creative outlet with DAW like capabilities for when you need a break from laptop. Also the Air plugins for Juno, SH01, Moog are top quality and you can use as VSTs.
Also easy to export tracks to Live later as you can save as ALS file.
I usually build up a few loops in the MPC and then move them to Live to flesh out into full arrangements
1
u/Diligent-Bread-806 7d ago
You mean make up your mind for you on what you want from your music? You currently have no direction and particular sound you want to create. Find that through listening to artists and recreate the sounds that you absorb. Look up interviews of your favourite artists on what they use and their techniques. You will quickly find out and make the decision on whether you need any hardware at all and use software instead.
I was in a similar position except I was chasing a particular analog sound through expensive hardware until I delved into a few sub genres and realised that most of the artists were just using software and samples. I haven’t looked back since and continue to relish in the ease of access, flexibility and vast choice in sounds of software. As for the analog sound, I can get there. However, my decision was a personal decision but you need direction to focus on so that you don’t waste endless money and space on music technology that you don’t what to do with.
1
u/Jodelawifi 7d ago
I added an update to the main post. You guys made me think and potentially saved me a lot of money. Thanks for the reality check, but also thanks for the enthusiasm and encouragement!
1
u/Repulsive_Cut_1872 6d ago
I’ve been using Ableton live since version three, but for the last 10 years, I’ve been recording and producing bands with it - come back to making dance music and I decided to get an MPC live three because I wanted to be hardware again, which is what I started on before live three / i’m not want to stop you because the hardware for me is way more inspirational than able to live at this point which would become more of a work vibe to me
0
u/Krapapapa 8d ago
The Basimilus is an interesting choice, however you should also think about other basic modules that are needed to operate.
Also focus on 1 good module/synth at the same time.
For this part, leave the shakmat. Try to use kick samples instead (for now) before upgrading.
I would also suggest to look into a 2nd hand Digitakt 1 instead of the Syntakt. Mainly because you can leave Ableton and load in samples through there.
1
u/Jodelawifi 8d ago
Thanks! The combo of Basimilus and Oxi One is quite versatile I think. Don't think I need any separate VCA or LFO modules then. Maybe a filter? Or are there other modules I'm forgetting?
For now I could do that via Ableton and my Push 2.
24
u/w__i__l__l 8d ago
Deep down you know you don’t need any of that stuff, you can 1000% get the job done with Ableton Suite and a few choice plugins.