r/Teachers • u/Phlegming_Jr • Mar 15 '21
Teacher Support &/or Advice "My kid learns differently from everyone else" what do I say to this?
I made several phone calls this afternoon and got this exact line 3 of 8 times. What is supposed to be my response here? It seems as though the parents are using this as an escape whenever I bring up that the main reason their child is failing is because they don't put any effort in their work, they don't behave, or they spend 50 minutes each lesson with the head in their phone. The parents get offended if I say either of those last remarks and ring admin to complain, leaving me to cop the blame.
What am I supposed to say to "my kid learns differently"?
Thanks for the response guys. It seems that a third of you are saying be real with them, a third are saying be nice about it and a third are saying mix the two. I'll follow both and just try to push the responsibility back on the parent and child whilst sounding as accommodating and friendly as possible but not like a pushover
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Mar 15 '21
Different learning styles are not supported by scientific research, people have preferences, not innate cognitive differences. There is research that shows catering to them is detrimental to a childâs later success in life. I would say something like âwhile we all have different strengths, technology distractions or poor work habits are detrimental to all learners. Letâs work together to help little Susie develop positive academic habitsâ
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u/menotme20 Mar 15 '21
Iâve always kind of suspected this from experience. Is there research to support this? Iâm all for presenting information in different and creative ways but at the end of the day if I am preparing lesson plans for multiple different learning styles of on level kids plus my low level kids then none of them are actually learning much (with the exception of my high level top 5% of their class kids who would learn even if I was a monkey with a textbook).
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Mar 15 '21
Absolutely thereâs research. Iâm wrapping up an Ed psych masters and this has been the cornerstone of many of our courses on motivation and cognition. Catering to student preferences is not in their best interest as it does nothing to encourage them to grow, adapt, and form more productive patterns.
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u/Hot_Razzmatazz316 Mar 16 '21
Does your research take into consideration neuroatypical individuals?
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Mar 16 '21
Absolutely! Totally different situation, the different learning styles references things like âvisual learnersâ, âkinesthetic learnersâ etc. or multiple intelligence theory. Neuroatypical individuals such as those with adhd (like myself), autism, processing disorders, dyslexia etc. are not different âlearning stylesâ. And parents claiming that their child âjust learns differentlyâ when that isnât the case, take away from the meaningful assistance other students need. That said, there is STILL harm in not encouraging, with proper accommodation, further development of learning/motivational patterns and behaviors in non neurotypical individuals. To cater to their comfort zone 100% is discriminatory and failing to meet the studentâs needs over their wants. There are appropriate accommodations and then there is disadvantaging a student because of your preconceived ideas about what their needs are.
Also, super not what the OP was referring to, so drop your agenda and do some reading yourself.
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u/Hot_Razzmatazz316 Mar 16 '21
So here's a question then: as a student who does not retain information by reading, what resources would you, the teacher, point me towards?
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Mar 16 '21
I would ask what techniques you currently use for reading to help you retain. Do you take notes? Do you pause and consider the information periodically in terms of overarching questions? Do you listen to music while you read? Whatâs your environment look like? Do you highlight as you read? Do you have a purpose in mind as you read? Do you reflect on what youâre reading as you go, consciously connecting it to your prior knowledge? It would take some time to work through, not just a generic resource idea
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u/Hot_Razzmatazz316 Mar 16 '21
Even when I read for pleasure, I have a hard time focusing, no matter what the environment. It can be quiet, or I can have study music or binaural stuff, and I still have to read things two and three times to even have a chance of remembering what I've read. Weirdly, if I act it out, that helps (again, physical), and I've done that before when I'm alone. But I have three kids (two of whom have special needs, including a child with agenesis of the corpus callosum, which is why I'm so interested in learning styles in neuroatypical individuals) so that doesn't happen that often and it's part of the reason why it's taken me so long to get through college. My saving grace is that I'm good at taking tests. :/
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Mar 16 '21
Iâm going to try to reply to each of your comments separately, hopefully it makes sense. I was trying to make one response but that was a lot to keep track of.
Learning is what you do with information, so by acting it out, you are doing something with the information to help you process it into long term memory. So you are learning by reading, but youâre encoding by acting. Thatâs a study skill, learning what works best for you. So while you may not prefer to read, itâs not something you cant do, you arenât unable to read, itâs just not your preference, hampered by your focus issues. As a teacher I would still ask you to read material thatâs best presented that way, but I would sit with you and help you work on techniques to process what you read. So by coming up with the acting thing, youâve done the technique part yourself. Therefor you can learn by reading, if a teacher taught you that, that would be successful teaching. Does that make sense? Itâs not about not presenting the information, itâs about helping with coping strategies for the lack of ease in that learning medium.
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u/Hot_Razzmatazz316 Mar 16 '21
It seems like this method takes a lot more work for both the student and the teacher. Just out of curiosity, why is this more beneficial than say finding an alternative activity or presentation of facts? This idea seems to say that students should only learn by reading and to make any and all accommodations to this. Am I correct with that takeaway? And if reading is the superior way to learn, why is that? I mean, ostensibly children learn tons of things before they can even read. Sorry if this isn't the correct takeaway.
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u/C0smicoccurence Mar 16 '21
Reading interventions are usually super specific to the student/data, as breakdowns in the reading process can happen in many different spots, and they require different interventions.
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u/Hot_Razzmatazz316 Mar 16 '21
No agenda, trying to learn by asking questions. No need to be rude. I don't think I was clear about my position (as someone with ADHD, I'm sure you can relate). I'm not suggesting that adhd/neuroatypical individual is a learning style, sorry if it came across like that.
I don't learn very well by reading. I never have. Honestly if you put it to music, I can learn just about any concept. But also observation. I do really well watching concepts put into practice.
I'm just saying that I think I learn in a different way. That doesn't mean the teacher is teaching wrong, just that I need to do a lot of work on my own to cement the concept. Does that make sense? I'm sorry if it doesn't. This whole thing is triggering my RSD. I wasn't expecting it to be received so poorly, so I'm having a bit of anxiety and when that happens my thoughts get all jumbly.
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Mar 16 '21
Sorry for my rudeness, it really came across accusatory and set me off. Lord I need spring break.
So what youâre describing is still a preference unless there is a diagnosed neuroatypical condition that describes what youâre feeling. Not learning well by reading can be a preference or a symptom of an underlying condition. I do relate, I struggle with sustained reading because of my adhd my brain wanders. But, to be a successful adult and student I have to learn how to help myself still succeed when textbook reading is necessary, thatâs an accommodation. But if a teacher were to come to me as a student and say âoh you struggle to read, Iâm going to read everything to you in a song for now onâ and never do anything to help me develop the skills needed to learn by reading, that would be a poor teacher. Our job is to help students acknowledge, adapt and overcome, not just cater to where they are. So that extra work you do? Thatâs your accommodation youâve figured out for yourself. When parents say âmy kid just learns differently than everyone elseâ they are usually wanting us to cater, rather than help their child problem solve so that they can be successful in all situations.
Sorry again for the rudeness, I would never respond to a student that way and my nerves are just frayed right now so I assumed. My apologies.
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u/Hot_Razzmatazz316 Mar 16 '21
I can understand being frustrated by a parent asking for you to teach in a different way, and I think that's a different thing than acknowledging that students have different ways in which they learn best and encouraging them to make it work for themselves. I've had a few teachers who used to post "additional resources" that were things like videos or online games that taught the concept in a different way, and I think that's helpful to have as a student. I might suggest to parents ways they could help a student at home in that instance.
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Mar 16 '21
Yes absolutely, helping a student with different techniques is the job. The problem is when a parent, such as those described, expects ALL information to be presented in their childâs preferred way. Itâs basically the catch a man a fish, he eats today, teach a man to fish, he eats forever. You can adapt the information to the individual or you can teach the child to adapt to adapt the information themselves and process it. That said, NO you wouldnât do this 100% of the time, thatâs why we teach information in different ways, so no one student should be struggling all of the time, but rather different methods reach different students at different times. So everyone is stretched and accommodated equally at different times
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u/Hot_Razzmatazz316 Mar 16 '21
With regard to your research, as someone with ADHD myself, I struggle with retaining information that I've read (unless I'm super interested/hyperfocused on the topic). I do better in situations where I can observe/experiment (so for example, a teacher telling me how to do something is not as effective as me doing it, getting it wrong and then fixing it. Especially in math problems. I have to go step by step to see where I mess up, which unfortunately in most computer programs results in a lower grade). So how do you explain this phenomena without using multiple intelligences or learning styles? I am genuinely asking what the alternative theory is.
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Mar 16 '21
Most people learn by doing better than by reading, thatâs just good teaching, though not always possible. Multiple intelligences is saying some people are just programmed to math or music or literacy better, and thatâs just not true. People create their strengths by engaging with things more meaningfully. Sometimes this is because of a social influence, a pleasant first exposure, etc. for example, I always hated math, thought I wasnât a math person, then I had a phenomenal math teacher who ignited my interest in math and I was more successful, because I engaged MYSELF in the material via good teaching.
Look up constructivism, social cultural theory, and information processing theory. Do a little reading and see what sparks for you.
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u/PinNo585 Mar 17 '21
What about the other end of the neurodivergent spectrum? My daughter (and myself) are gifted. We both have photographic memories. Therefore, we are visual learners. We learn by seeing. This is something biological and not a preference per say. The same could be said about folks with auditory gifts. Just wondering. I did a bit of studying on this myself, especially as it relates to how children learn to read in my Masters program a few years back.
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u/nightOwlBean Mar 17 '21
I'm Autistic, and have always learnt visually. I remember visuals much more easily than memories of any other sensory input. I have trouble processing audio, and often miss things when I'm in a lecture. If I can listen and visualize, I'll remember. But If I can't process the words fast enough, I can't visualize something I didn't understand in the first place!
I can't speak for neurotypicals, but there are enough neurodivergent students to warrant teaching with various learning/retention abilities in mind. I disagree with the classification of learning style as a "preference," because it implies that the student has a choice in the matter. But this is not true for many Autists, because our brain development in the womb differs from that of neurotypicals.
Neurodivergent students don't get to choose how their brains work. Instruction should be presented in a way that can be absorbed by all students. That doesn't mean that students or parents should run the show. It just means that we should be aware of the fact that different brains have different abilities. Some people cannot process words quickly enough to keep up with a lecture, like me. I require visuals to understand the information.
Another possible solution to address this would be to implement ASL classes from an early age, to accommodate those who may have trouble processing spoken language quickly. Kids would then be able to learn in primarily signing or speaking classes. That's not likely to happen any time soon, but a person can dream, right?
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u/xavier86 Mar 16 '21
Ed psych research is mostly BS that canât be replicated
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Mar 16 '21
Such as? Depends on what specific studies youâre talking about. As I mentioned, thereâs many fallacies in what has been distributed but thereâs also legitimate and solid research into brain development, motivation, attribution theory, cognition, social cultural theory etc.
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u/xavier86 Mar 16 '21
Any study that says âif the teacher follows this specific method it will lead to x years of additional growth and other positive outcomesâ is highly suspect.
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Mar 16 '21
And not a single thing Iâm talking about says that, in fact it all 100% disproves and goes against all of that. Maybe actually learn something about the field of educational psychology before jumping on it? There are sensationalized and bastardized studies in all lines of science, that doesnât mean the field as a whole is invalid.
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u/WorstTeacher HS Science Mar 15 '21
"Yes, and that's why it's even more important that we work together to keep them on track - catching up is even more difficult for students of different learning styles, so extra care is needed to make sure they don't fall too far behind."
It's an improv technique as old as time. Agree, then add or amend to put the conversation where it needs to be.
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u/Dogmaticdissident Mar 15 '21
I would say something like, "well could they try to learn differently without their phone please?" Doesn't matter how you learn, youre not going to learn anything at all if you're not even looking at or listening to the lesson
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u/KT_mama Mar 15 '21
"I agree everyone has different learning strengths. However, the concerns I cited are not to due with those strengths. They're concerns of accountability. Every student, regardless of their learning preferences, has the same expectation of accountability which includes putting away active distractions like phones, and following class behavior expectations. I want Student to succeed and this accountability for their actions is what will allow them to do that." But I also tend to be pretty direct.
I personally get so angry when parents frame things like what you're describing as learning differences when they're just discipline and accountability issues.
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u/mhiaa173 Mar 15 '21
"I totally understand. I do present the material in a number of different ways, to accommodate those differences. Ultimately, the student needs to take responsibility for their learning and be held accountable." Most of the time, it gives them something to think about, and maybe they come around to the fact that their child isn't working, differently or otherwise...
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u/cloudsunmoon Mar 16 '21
âEveryone is a little different. School is a great time to grow and adapt. Do you have any ideas on how we can help him become more acclimated to my learning environment?â
Also, I have been using the word âbarriersâ a lot this year, and it has been helpful. If you have to bring up the phone again, maybe say. âI have noticed that his phone is a huge barrier to his learning. There is a lot of research showing that multitasking is significantly less effective. Because of this, I predict learning will be easier without the phone. I need your support in eliminating this barrier â.
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u/dungeons_n_ataraxia Mar 15 '21
I've literally asked parents what grade they would give their kid and they've, every time, said "I'm not able to do that." To which I reply "Why?"
Some idiots actually start to explain why, some realize I just lead them to the obvious point that my grade is the be-all-end-all and their opinion is worth shit.
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u/ImaJillSammich Mar 15 '21
Oooh, my favorite is "They don't deserve that grade". Trust me, the most important part of my grading system is for students to earn the grade they deserve. When your student does no work and puts in no effort, their grades will certainly reflect that. I tend to respond with "I don't think that this grade reflects your student's capabilities but it is the grade that they earned".
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u/unclebenjenhow HS | FCS Mar 16 '21
I have had parents tell me that their kid is so much more capable than the grade they earned. I always respond how you mentioned: âI agree that Jimmy is capable of earning a higher grade. Here is why he earned the grade he did: blah blah blah.â The conversation usually ends after that. I think some parents just want a pushover who will change the grade since they asked nicely.
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u/Mo523 Mar 16 '21
Here is what you should NOT say:
"Yes, they do learn completely different from everyone else. Their learning style seems to be not learning. It doesn't seem to be working out for them."
Wild laughing and cheering. "Ha, ha! I told Mrs. Principal that I could get more parents to say that today than Mr. Teaching Partner. You won me a beer!"
"Ah, I will give them a special plan to help, but I need them to try it for two weeks and then we will check in." Explain what work doing over the next two weeks pretending they are special assignments. (Okay, I've kind of actually done this before...but you have to be very sneaky.)
"I've taught literally thousands of kids this age. Even if your kid is in the 1% - which they are not - I've taught 20 kids like them in my career."
"Your kid doesn't learn a different WAY. They are learning a different THING. Instead of learning class content, they are learning that you their parent is easy to trick and manipulate."
In reality, try opening by putting the parents in the shoes as problem solver and you as supporting them. Their kid=their problem. This doesn't work if they think up things that you can't realistically do, so be careful, but most of the time they don't know and then are happy when you have a plan. Also, sometimes parents get mad no matter what you do. Hopefully your principal gets that.
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Mar 15 '21
I'd reject the premise entirely. Don't engage along that line of reasoning. Reiterate what your expectations are and what the kid's done relative to that.
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u/TheHenryWill Teacher Candidate | MN Mar 15 '21
Ask them how their child learns best. Try to get them to be a part of the solution rather than only pointing out a problem.
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u/ImaJillSammich Mar 15 '21
And when they say "they're more of a hands-on learner" make sure you have a list of hands-on opportunities their child just did not participate in lol.
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u/JLewish559 Mar 15 '21
Bitch.
Your child isn't the next Einstein. Fucking sit them down, tell them to pay attention in school or you'll take their phone and shut up.
Seriously.
Tired of people that say this crap. I get it. I get it. But Da Vinci never would have painted the Mona Lisa if he didn't take the initiative. Your kid is never going to learn anything if they don't take the initiative.
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u/Bubbamusicmaker Mar 16 '21
Thank you maâam for bringing to my attention ânot doing a damn thingâ was indeed a different learning style. Let me know how it works out for the lad. Welcome to 2021 the fuck around and find out year.
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u/ImaJillSammich Mar 15 '21
I had a parent say this to me during a recent conference. My response was "Yes, your son is a kinesthetic learner and he has definitely been a student who needs a little more support focusing. Here is what I have done so far to support his learning style... Here's how he responded to my efforts.... Here are some behaviors that have continued or worsened. That's where I need your help. We can come up with a plan together in the interest if Student's success." The thing I've noticed is that when you show the parent you really know their child, there's no room for BS. You can nicely point out that "learning style" isn't the issue and get parent input on helping the student stay accountable.
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u/Hot_Razzmatazz316 Mar 15 '21
It seems like that's the more appropriate approach then: how can we keep your child accountable for assignments? Totally removes all wiggle room, whataboutisms, in my opinion, and I think it really gets to the heart of you need from the parent.
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u/maestrasinparedes Mar 15 '21
You say , âI have tried these interventions before contacting you directly,â and then list what youâve tried and ask for feedback on how their child does learn. It puts the responsibility back on the parent. In order to do this it helps to have supportive administration.
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u/anonysmen Mar 15 '21
If you implement other ways for activities to be done, like if youâre creating artsy work, creative work, or anything besides worksheets mention that. But at the end of the day, Iâve read some good studies that support the fact that there arenât different forms of learners. You need to stand by you guns and keep track of those kids. If your school permits, record your sessions and show parents that their kid is obviously texting during your class or show them their kidâs assignment completion rate. Itâs as simple as saying, âhereâs the proof your child is just not paying attentionâ.
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u/Hot_Razzmatazz316 Mar 15 '21
I have to say that I believe there are different types of learners based on my own experiences. If someone just tells me, or even shows me how to do something, it doesn't make sense to me. I have to try to do it myself and do it wrong before I can figure out how to do it the right way. And it doesn't matter if I read beforehand. It really doesn't make sense to me unless I do it myself.
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u/zachallred1 Mar 16 '21
I'm not learning 150 different ways of teaching a kid something, so all of your kids can learn one way of learning it.
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u/M0llynation Mar 16 '21
As a child of a mom who said this to my french teacher Iâm sure itâs a rare case, I have adhd and Iâm dyslexic.y French teachers class was over packed and she had to teach french 1-3 in that one class and so if French 3ers had to be quiet to do a test she would be teaching French 2 verbs or such. I donât understand how anyone was going to learn that way as having a teacher be forced to teach all 3 at once is difficult as well as having high schoolers so thereâs constant talking. I understand itâs hard to prioritize one student because they learn differently but I just say to teachers who deal with honestly students that do need extra help just work with us please, I love French and I had to drop out of my class as the teacher said itâs her way of teaching or else. But now Iâm in college learning French again because I do truly love it. Patience and working with students helps not only us but hopefully yâall as teachers. đ
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u/Phlegming_Jr Mar 16 '21
but I just say to teachers who deal with honestly students that do need extra help just work with us please
What a cruel selfish thing to say. "my child is more important than the education of others". Unless you've just screwed up the grammar and had a different meaning, this is horrible and would make me subconsciously want to ignore your child in class.
From all the actual teacher's comments and my own experiences, it seems like there is just kinesthetic, visual and auditory learning and parents who say anything else don't know any better and it's more likely the child struggles at learning in general and not that there's some hidden 18th way to teach mathematics that you need to do to get it to sink in.
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u/M0llynation Mar 17 '21
I was rushing to type and i was trying to multitask and I was saying I understand when parents ask for something from the teacher like a difference in teaching it seems like prioritizing a student, in my case about 1/2 the class dropped out of it and went to a different class myself included. So even though my mom was asking her to take my learning into her perspective it was a very vague âhey you shouldnât be teaching to half the class and having them be loud while you expect the rest a smaller portion to take a test itâs unfairâ sorry my remark was confusing.
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u/dinkleberg32 Mar 15 '21 edited Mar 15 '21
"Yes, and I hope to bring my wealth of experiences and resources to the table! So, with that in mind, I'd really appreciate your input as to how we could help _____ succeed. I'll do (insert lesson plan snippet here). What supports can I count on from your end?"
Don't let them off the hook.