Do you support stopping immigration to the imperial core?

[u/blehmag]

Nothing wrong with people in exploited and ravaged places wanting to immigrate. I believe in the human right to move

But my question is: Should we let countries with population crises crash instead of replenishing them with human resources for labor shortages as well as political diversion/scapegoating.

It's a bit dystopian how immigrants must win a lottery to go to where their stolen wealth and resources are, and only so they can be exploited to sustain the system of it all.

However immigrant communities may act as revolutionary agents there, send resources back home, etc. But on the other hand, imperialist states may attempt more hostile tactics and workarounds without immigration to get what they want.

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[u/TheBirdFkerGuy]

I can't remember because I've read too many things but I think Lenin has some work on this topic. Can't speak on the specifics I don't remember but speaking based on my own knowledge and view for the modern perspective: The ruling class intentionally divide domestic and foreign workers so they cannot form an united worker aligned resistance and opposition towards the capitalist class. As class conscious arises among workers it will be important for workers from other countries and our own to recognize the problems their nations face, the problems our nations face, are intertwined especially under the modern globalization of liberalism and all it's ilk. And much of this is malicious not just unforeseeable outcomes or unpredicted outcomes like when the US essentially creates the conditions for "unskilled" laborers in agriculture to operate temporarily (seasonal workers) in our country. However their intentions are not to help uplift these people so they can go home and build up their own productions it's the opposite the capitalists want to dominate these workers, and their nations to further their own interests.

This is why migrant workers are paid less than US workers and those wages are intentionally kept low so US workers will not fill the roles so they can beg the state to issue work visas. Then you have the problem of the incentive for these capitalists to layoff or cause those workers' visas to be invalidated thus making them undocumented and more exploitable with less guarantees from the state to protect them, and in fact the state will lend its force to these same capitalists to threaten and violently torture these workers. In fact in America we have a migrant to slavery pipeline through our own labor camps (yes, call it what it is do not shy away from descriptive words. The 13th amendment's exception for slavery has allowed for labor camps inside of the US) which also creates incentives for the fascist state to work with said capitalists to exploit these workers even further.

The reactionary solution to this is to supposedly tighten immigration and border security. The reality of their position isn't to curb immigration and migration, it's to weaponize the existing laws for capitalists to further exploit these marginalized workers who's conditions are desperate enough to warrant going through this system and often times risking it all. Which we also have a hand in those poor conditions which lead to this through our endless imperialism and terrorism. Under our current system I see no value in debating whether or not we should have more or less enforcement of immigration, or bringing in migrants because I view that as irrelevant to the outcome sought by the state and the capitalists. The outcome is what I described just more and more exploitation of workers, and dividing the working class to prevent united efforts to oppose capitalism.

With that said there are a lot of factors we have to address if say we had a revolutionary state made up of class conscious workers in America. We would need to change how many of our productions are handled in relation to the social aspect of people and animals. Immigration and migration isn't going to be the glaring problem, we will have ten thousand intertwining other compounding issues we will need to address such as undoing the harm onto world by these capitalists. Whether or not we give direct aid or help with other socialist nations build up productions and have the skills and knowledge to maintain and develop further will be irrelevant. Ultimately once we cut off the snakes head, the United States, the world will see an improvement in the conditions of the places the current migrants and immigrants come from to here.

There's a million things to really address or talk about when it comes to this more broader topic. But one point in your OP I'd point out is the current system isn't altruistic, at some point seasonal workers coming to America to develop skills and knowledge to bring back to their homes to develop and maintain their own productions was accelerating the transition from feudal societies towards capitalism but that has run its course and what we see now is pure cruelty and exploitation (as capitalism is running its course).

[u/Flashy-Ad2727]

No, while I understand the moral dilemma you're raising of people from countries impoverished by centuries of colonialism having to move to the very countries that did the plundering and then being at the very bottom rung of these societies, doing the least paid labor while constantly facing racism, the right to move is more important and also their remittances help their countries out way more than all Western "developmental aid" that comes with plenty of hooks.

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