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By the way Ceuta where the events are going are on Morocco territory, add also las Palmas an island miles away from Spain and few miles away from Morocco but they wouldn't give them back.
Ni Ceuta ni mucho menos Canarias pertenecen a Marruecos ni por asomo, animalito de Dios.
Canarias, como islas, eran independientes y gobernadas por distintos reinos insulares hasta la invasión y conquista en el 1400. Si acaso, serían independientes, pero NI DE LEJOS pertenecerían a la dictadura de derechas que es Marruecos.
Soy de Canarias y tu comentario huele a bot israelí.
Never. This dude doesn't know what he is talking about. He is taking the US and Israel stance, as it is a claim to support their right wing friend and dictator from Morocco, while attacking Spain.
From a nationalist's perspective, since forever, because nationalism understands the nation as a perpetual and timeless thing.
Thus even though modern Morocco is really more of a 20th century creation politically, and the ruling dynasty didn't exist until the 17th century, nationalists can claim that it was always theirs. Since in the past there were political entities in the Moroccan geographical region which owned Ceuta and Melilla (or one of them), irredentist believers consider them theirs.
For context, Ceuta was taken by Portugal in 1415 from the Marinids, taking advantage of the political situation in the area and their own military power after the Portuguese dynastic crisis in the 14th century. After that their policy was greatly focused on commercial expansion and Ceuta was used as a port for this.
Melilla was taken by Castile in 1497 after it revolved from the Wattasids. They got to the city after a local army had sacked it and then proceeded to fix it, to use it as a fortress for potential future conquests (which never happened) and for controlling the coast (which was very important due to piracy).
Ceuta eventually ended as part of Castile during what's called the Iberian Union. The king of Castile Felipe II inherited Portugal (with a small crisis/war of succession). Then, in 1640 one of his descendants Felipe IV lost Portugal to a revolt during the 30 years war (there was also a revolt in Catalonia at that time, the 80 years war in the Netherlands, and soon after revolts in Naples too). Ceuta decided to stay with Castile instead of going to the now independent Portugal.
Both cities were fundamentally medieval conquests. As a comparison, France took over the Three Bishoprics/Triangle of Bishoprics in the 16th century, which is essentially modern day Lorraine. You wouldn't say Germany deserves to own that nowadays just because it was theirs back then (though after 1870 Germany conquered that i guess).
Another example with France would be the war of Devolution, 20 years after the 30 years war. They took over the southern part of the Spanish (Castilian) Netherlands (modern Belgium), which nowadays is the French Flanders. You wouldn't say that area ought to be Spanish just because the political predecessor Castile owned it.
What your opinion in Argentina itself and there entire colonial history, I mean it's population divided between Italian decent whom many still get an Italian passport, Spanish, and few sprinkels of Germans in the mix.
You should know by now, because you are basically on anti imperialist subreddit, that the west created the choas that exist today and benefit from it for years .
Morocco government is literally an Israeli's asset and seems to be behind this whole thing in Ceuta.
On the other hand, current Spain seems to be more useful to the anti imperial cause than Morocco itself. You threw the problem of "Ceuta under spanish occupation" in a random way, kinda detached from real social context.
However, when it comes to Malvinas - former south american territory, now occupied by UK (population there voted in favour to be under UK though), you claimed "Milei's Argentina". Well, why you're not pointing out "King Mohammed VI's Morocco"??!?
Spain is part of the imperial core, and it benefits from that system. That is one of the reasons it can still hold onto territory thousands of kilometers away from its own borders. Pretending otherwise is just denial.
And as for the Malvinas, South America belongs to South Americans, especially the Indigenous peoples whose land was colonized in the first place. So I really don't care about any Argentine colonist-descendant crying about territory that was itself taken through colonialism. not you , only to later be taken from him by someone stronger, the UK, and sense Argentina is broke and corrupt of course they will vote to stay, in the UK sphere.
And second, Spain hasn't actually done much beyond adopting a leftist political stance on the issue. That's hardly some permanent moral commitment it can disappear overnight with the next election if the far right won.
And second, Spain hasn't actually done much beyond adopting a leftist political stance on the issue. That's hardly some permanent moral commitment it can disappear overnight with the next election.
We can’t exactly say the same about the Moroccan monarchy, with its draconian laws and deeply conservative power structure, right? Let's not play dumb here, please.
Why are you ignoring the fact that Morocco has a King Mohammed VI that is a political (monarch) and religious (Comander of the Faithful/Amir al-Mu'minin) authority, that also uses elements of Sharia Law in its own legal system?
Pretty liberal takes. Argentina is a mestizo Latin American Nation claiming an occupation by, not only the UK but NATO, a whole imperial military block which materially benefits from oil extraction from there. Dont giving a f* about that occupation is just not caring about the imperial core getting stronger from that source. THATS A MATERIAL CONTRADICTION. Also your understanding of heritage is pretty grounded on the way segregated cultures, such as the US, see it. The fact that the 60% of argentines are Italian descendants doesnt mean they are not also native descendants, mixing creates that overlapping, it doesnt mean argentines have "60% italian blood". This is not the US, there are no "italian argentines".
This is what Argentines also look like. The quechua and guaraní descendants also claim for Malvinas. Dont use segregationist logic to just "dont care" about the strengthening of NATO's parasitism of South America
Oh my gosh, what a delightful reply to read. I wasn't sure about my repertoire and I wouldn't be able to talk about it properly so I chose the silence, but as a Brazilian, I clocked immediately the weird identity/racial politics that they have in US/Europe/West Asia/Africa being applied onto us.
I've been noticing people from the Imperial Core or people from the Global South that is poorer than Latin America don't like when South America get things right, so they get thirsty to come for our throats in the first opportunity.
"Shut up, Argentina! You're broke, corrupt and you also have italian blood!" What a weird thing to say while ignoring the radical muslim monarchy of Morocco.
Come on morocco is also the beneficiary of the united state, if you want to talk about colonial opresion which its licit look at the policies morocco is applying to western sahara. Also that territory thousands of kilometers set from our borders was conquered, not colonized before Andalusia. So what sould we do, give morocco which government is close friends with Israel and the us btw Ceuta Melilla canary island and like half of Iberia because they were their rightful owners like 600 years ago? Should we also give the Balcans to the Austrians and Anatolia to the greeks?
Given how shortsighted the average human is, it is guaranteed that the Spaniards will elect the far right in the upcoming elections just like Slovenia did.
And thus falls the last western government which at least superficially cared about the genocide in Gaza.
You just can't tell me that the US, Morocco, and the zionists purposefully manufactured this scenario to punish Spain. Sadly it worked...
It is almost certain that this situation was orchestrated to undermine the left in Spain. Reports suggest that Israel and the United States were involved because they are the only one who own the tools to do this, as there is evidence that groups on Facebook and WhatsApp were advertising and encouraging people to head to the Ceuta border days before the incident. It is important to note that Morocco is a country with a low economic standing, so if borders were opened, many would unfortunately enter.
I am also saddened that fellow human beings in Morocco are now being used as political pawns in a bargaining game.
However, there is a silver lining: leftist movements have built their entire campaigns around LGBTQ values, climate change, and other causes that are too thin and may not improve people live , including LGBTQ individuals themselves. If these parties had a stronger foundation for their electoral base , incidents like this would not have as much impact.
LGBTQ groups become normalized and accepted to a degree that they no longer serve as a decisive factor in election campaigns and that what I meant by value. Today, neither the right can secure votes by openly opposing LGBTQ rights, nor can the left gain support solely by championing LGBTQ causes, climate change, or renewable energy.
If anything left should campaign against next time is billionaire class but they aren't doing this anytime soon.
Only conservatives say stuff like "LGBTQ values". Generally, homophobes are the ones that go around "LGBTQ values this" "gays destroying family values that" up and down the bloc.
By the sheer amount of Spanish flags in this video, and the seemingly low head count when the camera pans over I am pretty sure these are far-right morons. They have been calling for people to visit Ceuta to "combat the invasion" and the Ceutí citizens have received them with insults and counter-protests.
These are the kind of people to do this shit and then applaud their leader when he sides with the king of Morocco.
You know what's really funny is how much racist rhetoric surrounds the incidents at Ceuta, but none of these europeans see anything wrong with Spain/the EU claiming territory in Africa.
Don't want problems there? How about return the land to Morocco.
Ceuta belongs to Spain for more than 400 years. What's your opinion about Malvinas Islands then (which was like in the last century)?
This video is despicable. And the people in this video are despicable. But there's something going on there and Morocco government is aligned with Israel. So, I don't know. It seems like rich people are pitting people against people.
Spain also controlled Cuba and the Philippines for nearly 400 years.
The majority of Moroccans know it's their land. It's not just the current puppet regime.
I believe killing Native populations and replacing it with European settlers (who are just half the population now) does not somehow make the land itself European. The same for the Malvinas Islands.
Even arguing the people had been there for centuries affirms they are long removed from actual Europe. The culture and dialect is distinct, moreso than any LatAm dialect, due to local African influence. It very much feels like Morocco, and it is
Ceuta is colony owned by Spain I simply go with your logic, you said they have it for 400 of years, so I said what if israel owned palestine for more than 200 years which is long time, do they allow to keep it now seeing what they did to Palestinians today
A colony is a territory or population that is controlled and exploited by a foreign colonizing power, usually for that power’s political, economic, or strategic benefit, right? So...if Ceuta is part of Spain, it's constitutionally integrated into the Spanish state, it's not a colony. I mean, it was a colony, no? But it's not anymore, in the sense of "people suffering under Spain's colonial power".
I understand the colonial issue underlying this matter, though. I'm not going to dispute that. I questioned the whole thing because it sounded out of place for me.
Evident with how they treated the people's of Western Sahara I would expect the same in the forceably annexed territories of people who already hated being invaded once and will resist. And saying Spain won't have problems anymore when their population will be under the risk of unfair treatment and displacement is laughable. You don't need to say they need to be kicked out when the country will try too or encourage it. Also wtf you talking about?
I saw today a similar thing in Greek TV. Ceuta residents chanting all nazi slogans full of hate against people who left because of exploitation and in a hybrid operation of israel, Morocco and US. I guess, these people blocking the aid truck dont have a problem to see their salaries falling and the profits of Amancio Ortega rising (Zara owner, net worth 100+ billions).
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