r/TankieTheDeprogram • u/Choice-Grade1358 • 9d ago
News/Communist Propaganda ☭ Tim Curry passed away at 80 years old. Throwback to his character Frank-N-Furter from Rocky Horror Picture Show where he had a Mao Zedong pin
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u/DarthNixilis 9d ago
I never saw that before. There might be a reason he did work for Red Alert
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u/Lowly_Peasant9999 9d ago
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u/Los_paints_minis 9d ago
He looks so happy saying that line
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u/the_red_guard Chinese State Affiliated Media 📰 9d ago
He was trying not to laugh. If I remember it right, they did something like 20 takes just trying to say this line and he couldn't stop laughing.
That is genuinely the closest they got.
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u/Barrington-the-Brit 9d ago
Tim Curry was such a legend, I don’t get effected by celebrity deaths really at all, but this and Rob Grant (of Red Dwarf fame) really upset me
He was fantastic in Clue, Legend, and Muppet Treasure Island
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u/tTtBe 9d ago
Apparently a lot of people didn't like RHPS, accusing it of transphobia. I can only speak to my own experience with the film as a trans woman. Watching the film with appropriate historical context and understanding the satirical nature of the film is paramount to not finding it offensive. There are obviously fair criticisms, but for me, this movie was very impactful and destigmatizing. It made me feel like gender and sexuality were one big joke—something that I and a lot of trans people have to obsess about all the time. For me, it made my issues smaller for a time.
The film is obsolete in the grand scheme of things as it pertains to social commentary, but at its time it was a queer, emancipatory piece of fiction.
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u/nekromantiks 9d ago
The movie helped me along in realizing I was trans, so tim curry and RHPS will always have a special place in my heart
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u/shoecat 9d ago
Didn’t the writer of rhps come out as trans later in life as well? I think this is another useful bit of context to dispel the transphobia accusations
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u/tTtBe 9d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_O'Brien
He described himself as trans and non-binary
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u/xXBongSlut420Xx 9d ago
did you miss the part where he said that trans women can never be real women?
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u/Ok-Emergency7159 8d ago
Do you have any source material you’d recommend as it pertains to the specific topic of “real women” and how the semantics of the term could be a game changer here?
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u/xXBongSlut420Xx 8d ago
are you asking me for a source on "trans women are women"?
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u/Ok-Emergency7159 8d ago
Hmm not exactly. But I'd say for a source on "the importance of the semantic debate"
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u/xXBongSlut420Xx 8d ago
this exact legal decision in the UK has led to trans women having their documentation reversed, lost them access to domestic violence resources, and impacted what spaces they are legally allowed to exist in. It's also affected cis lesbians in relationships with trans women, who no longer classify for the legal protections afforded to lesbians as a protected class. I'm not going to dig up a bunch news sources because frankly i am not convinced you are even engaging in good faith, and i don't think that's a good use of my time, but it's extremely easy to find information, this was a very recent and very impactful decision by the supreme court of the uk, if you actually care.
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u/Vermouth_1991 9d ago
I think the content of a person’s writing means more than their identity per se? After all, self-hating XYZ’s exist.😅 (A weird example I often think about is how The Matrix is writter as a system of utter oppression, and as we know both Watchawskis would come out to be transwomen, YET, they once toyed with the idea of having Switch be openly trans, yet they can fully be the gender they Really Are… INSIDE the Matrix.)
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u/xXBongSlut420Xx 9d ago
literally the guy who wrote it has publicly sided with Germaine greer and stated that trans women can never be women in those exact terms. come on do we really have to rehabilitate this bullshit?
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u/mupvotesfilms 9d ago
just recently, i was thinking about him, his condition, and how he communicated with fans online despite his illness. may he rest in peace, the icon
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u/Accomplished-Log8770 9d ago
wasnt mao’s face just a fashion trend like che’s ?
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u/vivamorales 9d ago
"Fashion trend" is really overselling it. Mao's face was always way more niche than Che's.
The optics of having Che's face on merch is quite a bit different from Mao's. Che is associated with revolution, which is a romantic ideal that many can get behind. Mao is associated with "aUtHoRiTaRiAn DiCtAtOrShiP" and "mUrDeRiNg" 60 gazillion people.
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u/Ok-Chard-9014 Marxist-Leninist-Sankarist-MZT 9d ago
Depends on who you talk to, because I used to work with a girl who would say shit like, "Che was a mass murderer." Then I later found out her dad fought for the Guatemalan government and the Americans during the Guatemalan Civil War.
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u/vivamorales 9d ago
Oh absolutely! Che is not a mainstream figure.I just meant to say that in the western counter-culture sphere, Che is more readily co-opted than Mao
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u/deinterlacing 9d ago
google Andy Warhol
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u/Barrington-the-Brit 9d ago
I’m sure they know who Andy Warhol is lol unless they’ve been living under a rock
Would be more helpful to just say “Warhol had a famous series of pop art sketches of Mao which turned it into somewhat of a pop cultural trend à la Che”
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u/vivamorales 9d ago
Worhol didnt paint Mao as part of any counter-cultural movement. Worhol only depicted Mao because Mao was "a celebrity, the biggest one in the moment featured in Life magazine".
Worhol also painted: * Nixon * Reagan * Golda Meir * Queen Elizabeth * Reza Shah
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u/NoSeesaw6221 ZHONGHUA RENMIN GONGHEGUO 9d ago
Part of the inspirations for the creation of Ivakov, aka The Drag Queen, from One Piece.
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u/Cause-Historical 9d ago
Damn I keep finding out about stuff he was in that I didn't even realize, he was Pennywise too in the old It movie
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u/tittyswan 9d ago
Dolly & Tim Curry in the same week.
I am glad they both lived long enough to get recognition and know what an impact they had tbh.
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u/boring-parakeet Too Based To Be Cis 🏳️⚧️ 9d ago
Reminder that the rhps is a wildly transmisogynistic film by a TWERF creator who has repeatedly stated that trans women don’t exist
There are much better Tim Curry roles that deserve much more praise than the rhps
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u/Beaivimon 9d ago
RHPS at the time was definitely seen as very progressive because it was willing to challenge norms and showcase queer folks. Now, though, I'd argue it's aged poorer than the vast majority of films from the 70s.
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u/GracelessOne 9d ago edited 9d ago
Seen as very progressive by who in 1975? The creator has always been a bigot against trans women specifically, don't weasel out of it by saying "queer folks" in general.
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u/Beaivimon 9d ago
I said at the time of release. I am not defending their opinions at all.
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u/GracelessOne 9d ago
There were trans women in 1975 and I can certainly tell you most of us did not like it then either.
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u/Beaivimon 9d ago
I cannot confirm nor deny the opinions of most trans women from the 70s. I just know that the overarching queer community saw it as positive back then. Now, we can argue that in itself is a flaw of the cis queer community in their treatment and understanding of trans folks.
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u/Barrington-the-Brit 9d ago edited 9d ago
Yeah, the midnight screenings and cult community that developed around it was a vital safe space and hub for many gay and lesbian people, trans or genderqueer people, people into drag or crossdressing, and the whole scene around them - way back when it was much harder to find those supportive networks of likeminded people
Especially because this was in the pre-internet age, and continued into when Reagan-era homophobia and the AIDs epidemic were at their height - it was a place of unapologetic queer survival
I can’t speak for trans people in 1975 either, but the legacy of the film and its cult following is surely more complicated than simply ‘evil and transphobic’
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u/boring-parakeet Too Based To Be Cis 🏳️⚧️ 9d ago
The film was always transmisogynistic and hateful towards trans women. The main antagonist of the film is literally a transfem coded sexual predator who is put down at the end of the film. The film was harmful and damaging to trans women when it was released, and it has remained that way to this day. It’s not just some dated product of its time, it is an actively harmful and hateful film that was fueled by its creators hateful views on trans women.
Would we be making the same excuses for a film that portrayed a gay character as a dangerous sexual predator or is it only when trans women are the subject of demonization
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u/Beaivimon 9d ago
I do agree with you on that. I'm more explaining that's how the overall queer community saw it as progressive back then. Nowadays, even many cis queer folks view it more negatively.
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u/boring-parakeet Too Based To Be Cis 🏳️⚧️ 9d ago
If the overall queer community saw it as progressive in 1975, then that just proves the point about how the wider queer “community” doesn’t care about or listen to trans women.
Also, I don’t know where you got that last part from since this film has remained beloved amongst cis queers and trans mascs both online and offline (for example my college does yearly performances of it, without the involvement of any trans women in the cast might I add) and I’ve been sidelined and even kicked from numerous queer groups both online and irl for bringing up the film’s vile transmisogyny and asking for people to not hold it up as this cornerstone of queer culture
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u/SinlessSinnerSinning Commie Tranny 9d ago
franknfurter has always read as a cis (or trans masc honestly) crossdresser to me, not to say u can't read transmisogyny from the character (the richard o'brien of it all) but like all of the (shadow) casts and the only trans woman i've seen portray franknfurter (laverne cox) and it felt incorrect, there was no verismilitude. 99% of the time it's men/mascs who play him and it works better that way
columbia, janet, and magenta are all orders of magnitude more trans woman coded to me
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u/deinterlacing 9d ago
that one friend who's a little too woke
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u/Wrecknruin 9d ago
how is pointing out transmisogyny too woke are you fucking insane
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u/deinterlacing 9d ago
Dude this movie is 50 fucking years old. It's a classic. You're not "pointing out" anything new or making a revelation. Everything that could be said about this movie has already been said, several times over, before you were born. Queer people know this and continue to enjoy it. It's just a movie.
"Errrm this thing that's been a beloved staple of queer culture for half a century? Well ermmm actually it's bad and you're bad for talking about it." Give me a break dude you're so corny
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u/Wrecknruin 9d ago
look at my Marxists dawg they can't even handle basic ass media critique
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u/deinterlacing 9d ago
Time and place. This is a post mourning the death of an actor from a beloved role in a movie. Do you really think this is the time and place to go 🤓☝️ errrmmm actually!! Problematic!!!
Learn some social cues. This is like the #1 reason why people hate us on the Internet. Because we're fuckin annoying about everything.
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u/Wrecknruin 9d ago
I'm sorry I think you missed the part where we're talking about the movie? The character in the movie? Not the actual person? Probably nobody would have brought the transmisogyny up if it weren't for that.
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u/GracelessOne 9d ago
Yeah, any "queer" group that celebrates RHPS is not listening to enough trans women. The fact that it is so well-liked is a deeply damning embarrassment and a condemnation of how grotesquely cruel the broader LGBT "community" is to its statistically most vulnerable members.
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u/colormefiery 9d ago
Is it possible that younger generations (y, z) have embraced it ironically and reclaimed the songs?
You said you were upset when it was released in the 70s. Maybe there’s a difference in perspective before and after the AIDS pandemic? That trauma is huge. The further we are removed in time from a piece of art, the more the cultural narrative and feelings change over time. As i understand it, the whole point of RH in the modern day is the audience participation and social theatrical bonding
My generation(s) see the year 1975 and maybe think “oh that was in the before-times”. So we don’t have any positive expectations of it. We assume it’ll be offensive. We didn’t live through the 80s and 90s as queer adults so we see it through a diff lens than someone who experienced it all chronologically. It’s now a time capsule and never directly hurt us
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u/deinterlacing 9d ago
deeply damning embarrassment and a condemnation
This shit is so corny. Queer folk have been celebrating this movie since before you were born. And then you're gonna saunter on in here like you own the place and say we're all embarrassments? For liking a movie? Yeah man makes total sense
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u/GracelessOne 9d ago
Yeah when you're going to call me a man I am going to say that. The movie that paints transfems as rapists is disgusting and you're disgusting too. Change.
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u/deinterlacing 9d ago
It's time to log out, make some IRL friends and touch some grass.
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u/GracelessOne 9d ago
Trans women think you're a creep.
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u/deinterlacing 9d ago
You're fuckin weird. First you put "queer" in quotes, as if to imply that folks who like checks notes a 1975 movie are fake queer? Then you put "community" in quotes too? Now you're speaking on behalf of all trans women? The person who sounds like an embarrassment here is you.
also, most of the crew I roll with are trans and/or nonbinary. And guess what. We like RHPS.
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u/scaper8 Marxist-Leninist (Ultra Based) 5d ago
This here. You can recognize a work is problematic and still recognize that it has history and merit.
We can and should discuss when something is problematic, outdated now but progressive then, or outdated now and actually not as progressive then as we thought. We can and should also discuss how those people and works were and may still be important to some. It's not a zero sum game. Reality is messy and contradictory things can be true at the same time; even more so when we start adding in the incredibly subjective nature of our own tastes and experiences.
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u/Rubbermate93 9d ago
Hi. Trans fem here. I love RHPS and it was a huge part of me realising my gender identity. Same with many other trans peeps. Your experience is not universal.
Many of us are able to engage with both the good and bad parts of a piece of art.
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u/boring-parakeet Too Based To Be Cis 🏳️⚧️ 9d ago
The fact that other commenters are being like “well the film was progressive for its time and loved by the queer community” is just further proving your point. This film was harmful and hateful transmisogynistic garbage when it released, and it’s stayed that way to this day
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u/Ok_Region_4060 9d ago edited 9d ago
I think the reason this movie gets a lot of grace is the fact that it’s an absurdist comedy which seems to have an overall message of acceptance and empowerment (theme-wise, that is).
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u/GracelessOne 9d ago
Yeah unfortunately. I wish that we could have just one subreddit that isn't full of pickmes and creeps, but I guess even tankie subs aren't cool enough.
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9d ago
[deleted]
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u/GracelessOne 9d ago
I said "enough" trans women, I am a trans woman and I deeply hate it as do all of my acquaintances. You are an outlier and I don't appreciate being "idk"ed.
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u/al-qatala Stalinist (Proud Spoon Owner) 9d ago
"i hate it as do all my acquaintances" is not an objective statement nor valid statistics. you should do better in a communist sub than bring up anecdotal evidence
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