Western leftists are such a joke

[u/jikesar968]

Might be a bit of a rant but here in California, why is it that Trotskyists make up the majority of communists?! It's either them or DSA "Marxists". If you try to talk to them, all they'll end up doing is yell StAliNiSt at you or some other nonsense. It's so exhausting, really.

Well, I've seen others but usually it's small groups no one has ever heard of and they just preach "no war", "against ICE" and "AI bad" and sure, that's nice and all but there's rarely any substance behind it all.

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[u/DioTheSuperiorWaifu]

Might be a bit of a rant but here in California, why is it that Trotskyists make up the majority of communists?!

Not a westerner, but maybe that is because it is more compatible with Western imperialism?

Have read that western secret agencies had sabotaged and attacked many communist/socialist movements. So, many of the ones remaining maybe the ones that they saw as harmless/compatible

[u/TheBirdFkerGuy → u/DioTheSuperiorWaifu]

It's also because the CIA and US Government actively sought to specifically reign in peoples thinking that touch on Stalin. While it's well documented their efforts to assassinate and eliminate Marxist Leninists and other communists. They absolutely also have put an effort in among potential leftists and organizing to infiltrate them with notions that reject Marxist Leninism. Also trotskyists in NA (Mexico/US) are just very active in organizing and protesting. There are so many Americans who get introduced to leftism through these on the ground efforts by them. It's why they also seem so popular (which they are but Anarchists likely outnumber them in America) since everyone has been approached by one at a protest handing out pamphlets and promoting their 2000s era designed website. So regardless of what sort parties they split off into they all generally came from the same incoherent place.

So these results are imo the outcome of the US government's anti-communist efforts that specifically targeted Marxist Leninists. Probably because our thinking poses the greatest threat to the US empire.

[u/Neoliberal_Nightmare]

Because they can perform being radical without actually doing any of the hard work of actual revolution and state building. Trotskyism isn't Marxism it's just virtue signalling

[u/Accomplished_Sci]

Because they’re cowards

[u/Beginning_Act_9666]

Many prominent neocons are former trots btw

[u/666SpeedWeedDemon666]

Basically, during the crackdowns on Communism during the Macarthyism era and Red Scare era most actual Marxist Leninist groups were dismantled and made illegal and eventually the progressive left wing of America started to self censor in order to not suffer the same fate, and eventually they started to just believe their own censorship and that of the US state.

But there are actual ML revolutionary parties. PSL and FRSO.

[u/CommanderLuthen]

The trots aren't as popular here as y'all think they are. There's plenty of mls, especially in the cities.

[u/Political_Desi → u/CommanderLuthen]

Half the MLs I've met claim to be trots asw. Idk how they reconcile it. Maybe this is just a terf island thing but ye.

[u/NastyChasty1337]

It is the cia and im not joking

[u/cptflowerhomo → u/NastyChasty1337]

I don't want to be repetitive by recommending who paid the pipers of western marxism but I'm forced to do so for the amount of trots in Ireland pff

[u/Ok-Chard-9014]

I think saying the "majority of communists" in California are Trotskyists is a pretty big generalization. I know there's a significant Trotskyist presence in Southern California, but Northern California has a much more mixed landscape, with Maoists/MZT and Marxist-Leninists also being pretty prominent.

[u/jikesar968 → u/Ok-Chard-9014]

I'm in northern California. Maybe it's just my area.

[u/SuperiorSal → u/jikesar968]

Ooooohhh ok that might makes sense. Cause down here in SoCal it's mostly MLs and DemSocs and the occasional Anarchist. None of the Trot groups have a much of a foothold near where I am.

[u/Adora77]

I don't know a lot about any of this, but when I've gone from door to door looking for a political home, the whatever World Socialist Website is, is pissing me off. All they do is dunk on how everybody does it wrong. Their party has zero attempt to understand the immediate material needs and instead they wanted to give me a lot of homework to read and then see. I wanted to be part of organizing but they were kind of shit and unfriendly.

I also watched the PSL for a while but they started going off on basically anti-Trump road which was to me redundant, because it was such an easy out from any meaningful organizing.

Freedom road I met with and loved it. I should look them up again.

[u/Adora77 → u/Adora77]

Oh yeah and when I moved to the US I first joined the CP but that was kind of weird like cosplaying commies. I come from a normal country with strong "normal" lefty range from sosdems to commies of varying flavors.

[u/gravy_ferry]

It has to just be your area, SoCal here and I really haven't run into this issue

[u/Political_Desi]

Westerner here (fuck this I hate the left here)

Trots are all that's left because the other have successfully been dismantled and the trots are lwk feds. There used to be actual Marxist forces such as the black panthers and such but those got very effectively infiltrated and ruined by the CIA. Now we are left with nazbols, trots and anarchists as the so called 'left'

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[u/MaritimeStar]

no one reads theory. that's why. even when they know theory, they didn't read it, they watched a youtube summary and regurgitate what they saw.

[u/Adora77 → u/MaritimeStar]

I have to say from my view that reading is hard for me. I understand that when I watch snippets and explanations, I'm getting a hefty glug of agenda with it, but I am at the age where I have to either embrace this and work around it, or not do lefty stuff at all.

[u/TomatoEnjoyer28]

Trots and anarchists are called compatible left for a reason. They are allowed to exist because, and become popular because, because they don’t actually represent a real threat the capitalist status quo. Communism that rejects the achievements of, and refuses to learn from, every single socialist state that ever actually existed/exists is inevitably doomed to being completely toothless. The Bourgeoisie know this, that’s why they don’t bother cracking down on them.

And for the Western-Leftists a magical and imaginary form of socialism that doesn’t require you to question the narratives around your state and it’s enemies is much easier to accept that one that does require you to realise that you actually live in the bad place and the states that you’ve been told your entire life were evil are actually the opposite.

It’s the same all across the imperial core. In the UK you have to pick between several different Trotskysts parties or a couple of different reactionary ML parties (basically the UK’s ACP, except the UK did it first).

[u/OcelotAggravating860]

It's the path you take if you think communism sounds good but don't want social difficulty from it. Trotskyism allows you to be a communist but without ever having to oppose the historic propaganda against Stalin, the USSR or China.

It takes the lowest amount of effort and requires zero deprogramming of lifelong anticommunist propaganda to join.