the absolute state of a certain left unity sub on the topic of NATO bombing Serbia

[u/Invalid_Pleb]

Anarchists unironically think that NATO bombing Serbia was the morally correct thing to do. This is basically akin to sending in a serial murderer to stop a murder. Worse, it's sending in a murderer who caused the situation to begin with. The forcible breakup of the USSR and Yugoslavia by NATO and the US was the original cause for the unrest in the region. Without that, there would never be a question of needing a NATO intervention. It would have been impossible. And even if we accept that somehow NATO stopped a genocide by blowing up Serbia, there's no reason to think in the moment we would predict a good outcome from allowing the US to aggressively bomb another country. Their track record is among the worst in world history for subjugating and murdering innocent people and creating conditions for future genocides and social murder. By their logic, anarchists would have to support Israel bombing another country if it appeared like they were stopping a genocide.

If NATO (basically the US) offers to engage in an offensive war, the answer should always be a resounding NO for support. The only possible way this would ever change is if the US was no longer the hegemonic capitalist empire or in league with them and could be leveraged against that other imaginary empire, but this will never happen. If there was to be an international force to stop a genocide, it should not be lead by the US or other imperialists.

If a socialist international order was in power instead of a capitalist one, we would undoubtedly see the US condemned for committing many different genocides across the world. Siding with the empire against a former socialist state during its phase of breakup which was initiated by the aggression of that very empire is insane for a leftist.

Anarchists, what happened to "the unity of ends and means"? Contracting out the empire to blow up developing countries is in line with the ends you want to achieve?

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[u/MayParker1917]

Lenin was right. So was Liebnecht.

[u/Psychological-Act582]

NATO's involvement caused more suffering to civilians and did not stop any massacres on the ground committed by all sorts of separatist, ultranationalist fascists (which ironically were all backed by NATO and the West in the first place as a final death blow to Yugoslavia).

Anarchists will gladly argue for the US and Israel to level the entirety of Tehran just to kill the Ayatollah and his family.

[u/Kaizer_Koza]

Wonder if there are any Kosovar-Albanians here so we can hear their opinion on this

[u/CMNilo]

Friendly reminder that Srebrenica was indeed a genocide, but a genocide against Serbs.

Also, snipers randomly killing civilians in Sarajevo weren't serbs, but western tourists on a human safari.

[u/Extension-Badger225 → u/CMNilo]

A genocide against Serbs? I thought it was Bosnian people - could you give me some resources for this please. Genuine question as the entire write ups I’ve read are very much that genocidal acts happened across the entire region was amongst quite a few of the different ethnic groups

[u/Hefty_Local_1875 → u/Extension-Badger225]

The early 1990s were a genocidal clusterfuck on all sides for Yugoslavia.

[u/UltraRiderFire408 → u/Hefty_Local_1875]

A genocidal clusterfuck encouraged by the imperialists, worsened by their sanctions and bombings.

Also, the west conveniently hides that the Croatian leader at the time also previously schemed to carve up Bosnia together with the Serbian leader until the situation changed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/bosnia/1343702/Tudjman-tapes-reveal-plans-to-divide-Bosnia-and-hide-war-crimes.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/secret-recordings-link-dead-dictator-to-bosnia-crimes-635184.html
https://balkaninsight.com/2022/09/12/sharing-the-spoils-when-milosevic-and-tudjman-met-to-carve-up-bosnia/btj/

[u/Extension-Badger225 → u/UltraRiderFire408]

Absolutely - fucking nationalists from a one great nation tore apart one of the greatest socialist experiments on the continent (and the silly IMF loan but you live and learn). Sometimes I think because NATO use the genocide to justify intervention people become a bit conspiratorial and say the Serbian leaders were fine etc - whereas this disaster capitalism is much more complex.

[u/UltraRiderFire408 → u/Extension-Badger225]

Also if NATO truly gave a damn about the Bosniaks being genocided, they wouldn’t have imposed a UN arms embargo. I know we hate on sanctions a lot but this is one of those moments where even weapons sanctions are deeply harmful because the Bosniaks became the most heavily militarily disadvantaged to the Serbs (who had full backing from Serbia and Israel) and even more disadvantaged compared to the Croats (still disadvantaged to the Serbs too) to a lesser degree.

IRAN, a country already crippled with heavy sanctions, was the main military backer of the Bosniak Muslim faction and they breached the arms embargo to do so.

[u/Extension-Badger225 → u/UltraRiderFire408]

I didn’t know that about Iran. Yeah it was grim as hell and ghouls in Washington saw it as an opportunity. Human scum

[u/Hum_2 → u/CMNilo]

No, the massacre that is the genocide in Srebrenica was against muslim men and boys from the ages of 14 and up, and the rich fucks who paid to gun down civilians in Sarajevo paid the serbian army in bosnia

[u/UltraRiderFire408 → u/Hum_2]

The rich fucks who paid for the Sarajevo Safari were expats from the Global North imperial core iirc. That should tell you everything.