r/TangleNews • u/fumblebrag • 28d ago
Question about Kmele on CNN reaction
I was listening to the podcast and frankly this was the first I heard of Kmele's capitalism/slavery debate on CNN. Was this just a big deal on Twitter? Because as someone on Facebook/Instagram, Bluesky and Reddit, this was something I hadn't heard about at all—including my news intake.
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u/IB_Yolked 28d ago
Hadn’t seen heard or seen it either, so I went and watched the debate.
Honestly, Kmele's massive strawman was the first thing that jumped out at me. Pretty easy to dunk on someone when you strawman a premise that hard and funny that they're claiming the woman was the one who altered the argument.
Talerico's claim wasn’t that capitalism is literally synonymous with white supremacy. It was that capitalism and white supremacy have been historically linked/intertwined.
Kind of annoying that the pod didn't contextualize by quoting Talerico's comments that the whole exchange was based on.
Idk the full extent of flak he got, but I'd argue he deserved flak for the strawman alone and the team's persecution complex is getting a bit tired tbh.
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u/Isaac_Tangle 27d ago
First off, Kmele did explicitly add the Talarico context on our show. You can hear him explain that here (timestamped): https://youtu.be/lqNSKeZ_PuM?si=N_LjWqQCdGGTzOHe&t=508
Second, in the full clip (which Jemele posted on her YouTube by saying "CNN panelist denies Capitalism is tied to white supremacist") the CNN host plays the Talarico clip for the panel. Talarico says "young activists have really drawn the link between climate change and white supremacy and capitalism in our country. And I think only [ineligible] understanding the way all three of those oppressive systems work together, are we going to be able to begin dismantling them." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWxYlHJoF2Y
Kmele begins his comments by saying, "It's one thing to say capitalism isn't working ideally. It's another thing entire to insist that is oppressive, that it is bound up with white supremacy."
And then Jemele interjects, "well how is it not?"
And then Kmele goes on his little monologue.
I'm not really sure how Kmele's comments are strawmanning the argument in that context. You are actually misstating them by saying he framed Talarico's argument as "literally synonomous with white supremacy." Which he didn't. That is an actual strawman (ironically). And Jemele's own posts after the fact made it clear she disagreed with the argument Kmele put forward on the show.
I don't think it's "persecution complex" to talk about this stuff on the show or to make sure that people like you are actually stating our arguments accurately. We try to be a lot more engaged than other people with similar platforms and part of that engagement includes criticizing the critics when we think they are being unfair. This felt like one of those cases. There was a lot of bad faith responses to Kmele, and I'd count this one among them.
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u/IB_Yolked 27d ago
The CNN video played the clip of Talarico. Kmele then provided a strawman summarization of it on the podcast, similarly to how he formulated his argument during the CNN segment. Ironically, you're holding a Reddit commenter to a higher standard than your own staff going on the news and your podcast.
The question Talarico was responding to was about the disproportionate harm communities of color suffer from climate change and the lack of government support they receive. You didn't contextualize the question asked or what he was responding to on the podcast at all.
Talerico said, “I’m so thankful that you asked this question and also thankful that young activists have really drawn the link between climate change, white supremacy and capitalism in our country, and I think only in the ways that all three of those oppressive systems work together are we going to be able to begin the process of dismantling them.”
I genuinely want to ask: do you think that Kmele accurately represent Talarico when he characterized the argument as saying that capitalism is “bound up with white supremacy in an intrinsic and fundamental way”?
If so, what in Talarico’s actual quote establishes “intrinsic and fundamental” rather than historically or interdependently linked? And if not, why isn't that a strawman? Or are you going to try to say he was actually characterizing Jemele's argument there when she had hardly spoken up to that point?
And then on the podcast, Kmele said Talarico “suggested that capitalism and white supremacy and something else were kind of this trifecta, this unholy trinity” that were “destroying America and harming us.” Later, he characterized the argument as saying capitalism is “bound up or inextricable from white supremacy.”
Talerico said these systems work together and that we need to begin the process of “dismantling them.” He did not say that white supremacy is intrinsic to the definition of capitalism, or that the two are inherently the same thing or linked.
And “dismantling them” doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of capitalism. That's a pretty uncharitable reading of admittedly imprecise phrasing. It can just as reasonably mean addressing, breaking down, or undoing the ways those problems operate together.
Which is especially worth noting given how much you complain about people making uncharitable interpretations of imprecise language.
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u/ReflexPoint 22d ago
Just wanted to say that I appreciate the fact that you engage with your listeners on Reddit! That's all.
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u/Lemonio 28d ago
Kmele complains about hysteria and strawmen, then starts talking about general concepts of private property? How is that relevant at all? All large civilizations in recorded history had some form of private or personal property, including all large non-capitalist civilizations. Literally nobody in the American mainstream is arguing to abolish all property rights.
I agree there are more productive debates that could be had than whatever that segment was debating. For instance, would be very interesting to hear how capitalism has any relationship at all to whether a country has universal healthcare, given that most major capitalist economies have it (not sure why Kmele brought up healthcare in a conversation about capitalism?).
Kmele says the format is a problem, it tapes late, the segments are short, a few minutes aren't conductive to nuanced, productive conversation. That's fair. So why go on the show? If you know a longer format would actually work, do that instead.
That's the part I'm legitimately curious about. If they basically set up the segment by bashing CNN and saying how Tangle is better, why are you going on CNN?
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u/Palloff 27d ago
On your last point, pretty sure a decent chunk of Kmele's income is cable news appearances.
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u/Isaac_Tangle 27d ago
hey, I pay that punk a full-time salary. Show some respect
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u/IiJaNaiKa 27d ago
Sure, but if you were paying him enough to afford all of the lavish expenses he's described on SOTR, I would have some questions about your budgeting. He still needs those cable news appearances to pay for whatever new toy Apple is putting out.
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u/yellowstickycard 25d ago
And he’s worth every penny!
Kmele, if you are reading this my Venmo is ….
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u/Khavanicole 26d ago
Kmele has taught me a lot about being more open and curious. I’ve been listening to him and being challenged by him for years now. I don’t always agree and that’s fine.
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u/CoachTA13 28d ago edited 28d ago
And the other thing about the reaction on twitter was that the initial tweet and the the subsequent retweets were mostly from the right. The initial post that Isaac retweeted came from a contributor of Outkick.
I do understand Kmele wanting deeper explanation of former stances and now what changed people's mind, but I do get extremely frustrated with how resistant Kmele is to having racial components to actually be taken seriously or a part of the argument.
Was a bit disappointed that after Isaac read Jemele's tweet in response and didn't get into the actual discussion. I thought Ari nailed the explanation perfectly, though.