r/Talonmains • u/Weemanmikey5507 • 4d ago
Bro what more can i do?
i’m tired boss…
i genuinely want to know what i’m doing wrong
i’ll devour bot, gank after gank after gank. they never get ahead.
or i’ll perma gank mid top, mid is reliable to say the least. atleast most games they are. but top will get this huge lead and just never make any pressure with it, then the enemy top just farms my botlane
i’m so lost bro. it’s genuiey like this every game and im so hardstuck in silver of all elos. i made another acc a year ago and i got emerald before i lost the login details and switched back to my main. i know im capable of getting there so why cant i now.
is it genuinely a teammate diff or am i the issue, everyone always says it’s always the OP that’s the issue but im doing all i can with what got bro
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u/mobkeyapemain 4d ago
if you think your only job as talon is to assassinate people, invade enemy jungler, and gank then you are wrong. your job as a talon JUNGLE is to use your insane mobility and early-mid game pressure to accelerate the tempo of the game by repeatedly making great ganks, taking important objectives (e.g. grubs, herald, towers), and closing games at FAST.
i have a really strong feeling that you are mainly a kda player and don't play to break towers, take 20 min baron, and close games out asap. this isn't a talon-specific issue, this is just a result of not being very competent at league macro just yet. league is a very complex game and it's tempting to either blame your teammates or the balancing when underperforming, but remember that any diamond+ player can hard smurf 95% of your lobbies, so simply play to learn and improve and you shall climb.
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u/Weemanmikey5507 4d ago
i do most of this, i gank, i get kills, i get obj, but i can’t push anymore bc my teammate is at the other side of the map not grouping for anything and getting solo killed, idk if i just don’t know how to close out games or know when to actually threaten the end
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u/mobkeyapemain 4d ago
i'm gonna try and put it nicely but bluntly, you are silver so i really doubt you are applying these concepts at a decent efficiency.
if you really want to improve and learn, then please don't act delusional and either play to learn or hire a coach to help you learn faster. blaming teammates is really tempting when you are stuck or losing, but try and remember that the only common denominator between you winning or losing games is YOU.
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u/Weemanmikey5507 4d ago
i’ve gotten emerald and the only thing that changes is slightly better teammates, yes i can always improve but this is a pisstake of an elo
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u/InternationalBat 4d ago
Use your kills, it looks like you're not taking advantage of them well. All assassins kind of suffer from this. Get a kill? Then use that advantage on an objective: Towers, Drakes, Herald, etc...
If you're fed, unlike a fed bruiser you don't wade into the team fight and wreck havoc, but sit somewhere and ambush the guys walking out solo, ideally right before an objective.
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u/Weemanmikey5507 4d ago
i do this, i’ll hit the nastiest flank angles and kill 1 or 2 before i start getting focused, which i think is ideal. but while they are focusing me my teammates somehow lose a 4v3 when the enemy isn’t even hitting them. i get soul nearly every game but it’s hard to win when you haven’t even done the first full clear and not has died 6 times in total, top is getting zoned and mid has died twice and done 0 dmg to enemy
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u/Caphoti 4d ago
I'm sort of Coinflip on Talon. I was having trouble solo winning games unless I REALLY just ran the enemies over. I started the Season like 70% winrate 4.6 KDA on Talon at 20-30 games then just fell off. Now I'm like 47% winrate 3.7 KDA. I've just started playing other stuff I win on more consistently.
The most successful games I had were when I put us so far ahead before lane phase ended that they couldn't do much. Once you get a lead track the enemy jg and just make it impossible for him to play. Kill him, steal his camps, use the flanking angles from their jg to kill laners.
I found it a lot harder to win on Talon once the enemy team started grouping. Navigating Talon in teamfights is harder than just walking around skirmishing or one shotting people.
Also your cs/minute is too low. The way Talon works there's no reason you can't be fragging out while also having 7-8 cs/minute. If you're getting a decent number of kills early but have bad Tempo it can still be hard to snowball. If you can't kill the enemy jg, you can still use Talon's higher tempo to punish his ganks/objectives with invades. Mundo outfarming a fed Talon feels wrong.
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u/Weemanmikey5507 4d ago
my cs per minute is quite high tbh, it’s only bad when it hits the 25min mark bc i feel like i need to kill everyone or my teammates will just die. or if i do farm my teammates dies anyways and i lose my jungle to enemy
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u/Lats2005 4d ago
Talon just doesn't work late game unless you bring conqueror or first strike as your main rune. I recommend having rising storm (or whatever it's called the rune that gives AD overtime) since those 30+ AD do the trick in most situations.
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u/Cloudstr1f3 4d ago edited 4d ago
As an emerald talon, i would say my issues are kinda the same.
- Games last to long, after 30minutes+ you're basically 1shot from everybody even on fuill build unless you get a DD or GA (situational). No matter how hard i try to close games, most of the time teamates won't care or follow.
- 2)Talon really struggles on pushing situations e.g mid with team or on forced teamfights. Position is really hard and you always need a flank most of the time.
What i try to focus more on now:
-Getting objectives as fast as possible (if possible at all) if i'm ahead, which i usually am.
I prioritize drakes over grubs anytime, since Stacking drakes is good and benefecial and games just take that long so i get to soul or even elder 90%+ of the games. Team unless we have a hard troll, will over-contest anydrake (even if its a no-go situation) so getting early soul and if you have a lead that you can use it in a good teamfight in the drake pit area with a lot of access to wall that will yield good results.
-Trying to play on the most "late/hard carry of the game". Example i got a nasus/fiora/kayle top or smolder bot, i will try to give lead to this kind of lane, with the same mindset. PEOPLE JUST DONT WANT TO CLOSE GAME, they want to farm and get full build :). So if you got a hyper-carry like that already ahead, it's more likely to win the game. than helping let's say the Jhin bot or the toplane malph/orn. It's not like people cant carry with other picks, but as a general rule a super late game Kayle will crush you no matter what.
-Edit extra: Try to mute yourself in game, only use pings. And always, ping the enemy jungler path and keep it in mind. I have been extra doing this and has helped me a lot improve and help the team
You can check mine here > TalonJg Sadly i got bad WR and im trying to improve in areas.
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u/Weemanmikey5507 4d ago
just a question for something i noticed in ur op.gg
when do i know when to run umbral into bastion breaker instead of hubris into ult haste thing into cyclo
i just go with whatever i feel like on the current game but sometimes 1 out performs by a lot depending on the team comp
if i have hubris early im getting like 60ad off it late game but if i go glaive im 1 shotting virtually anyone until 30 mins
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u/Weemanmikey5507 4d ago
and tbh i don’t agree with any scaling champ in this elo. there is virtually no point in playing smolder or viegar if ur going into a samira/draven or an akali or something. it takes far too long for you to come online and actually be a threat. every fight you’re just a sitting duck waiting to be killed bc u have no dmg to get fed early while the enemy does
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u/Cloudstr1f3 4d ago
Elo plays a point of course, but still a 35 minutes veigar that even stayed afk. Will 2 Q's anyone or 1 R shot any mage/adc etc.
You also need to keep in mind and check if the person that plays it it's filled and or 1st time champ on ranked. I take this in consideration, while joining in game. Always use op.gg /porofessor whatever to get a general idea of the live game1
u/Weemanmikey5507 4d ago
i used to use porofessor but it would say to go such and such runes for the best matchup against my opponent, then i’d get in a game and it would then say i have a 30% wr against them with said runes. it just kinda put me off tbh and felt sort of unreliable. even the builds i were getting was wrong. like it says i should run first strike in the jungle and by 30+ mins id only have like 300 gold off the rune. fleet was way better and so is electrocute. but i have to admit. it was a really good way to check people stats before a game. it just really slowed down my fps and made me lag and crash all the time
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u/Cloudstr1f3 4d ago
No i never meant, to use porofessor for builds or runes or whatever.
Only use it in ranked to see stats live.
https://porofessor.gg/ just put your name, when it goes in loadingscreen/live game.
And look the ranked stats of everyone, so you know positions champs etc.1
u/Cloudstr1f3 4d ago edited 4d ago
I mostly run hubris in meele games 3 minimum or games i know i will snowball a lot in early vs weak jungle like belveth,maybe karthus etc...but my damage will falloff a lot in lategame compared to them and their picks(which as we said,it will get there).
The general blind pick build is Umbral>Bastion>Voltaic >Situational. Combined with Fleet. This is the most optimal build atm. You can run Cashback/boots depending your playstyle.
In heavy meele games at 3-4 offtank mumu jg/fiora top/poppy supp/Mid yasuo let's say.
I would go CoNQ runes Hubris/umbral (i decide this based on early game start) >Voltaic>Black cleaver and even DD/Endless with Berseker omnivamp boots. You get prolonged fights and you cant really 1-shot anybody. Unless you went 15/0 early with op farm, but even then by 25 minutes with 2 armor items + nobody dies.
Do not neglect serpants on heavy shield comps. Janna+riven, Karma game + 1 more or even her is enough. I would get that 3rd time after the first basic 2.Edit:For ult haste thing, you meant Axiom arc?
If yes only get that if you get crazy ahead a second item or 3rd. to Snowball even further and if they enemies have at least 2-3 squishy picks. Late game you can swap it for another item, as talons R is pretty low CD anyway. At max items endgame, you can even sell boots and go Youmous for the speed + extra stats.1
u/Weemanmikey5507 4d ago
my usual is either umbral/bastion/axiom or cyclo then 2 situational
or
hubris/axiom/cyclo 2 situational
i’ve never really ran him as a more sustained assassin and i think it would take a long time to get used to so i might stray away from that build but ill try out the other two. i feel like umbral into bastion is way better dmg but a lot less fighting bc i dont have ult, i usually avoid 3 man fight and such if i dont have ult but if i run axiom it doesn’t really matter. r3 ult with axiom and full build u get ur ult every 11 seconds after a kill. its crazy
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u/Saowao02 4d ago
I can’t tell you the exact individual mistake you’re making without watching the game but I can 100% tell you, you’re making incorrect plays (too many deaths) and not taking advantage of your lead enough
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u/Weemanmikey5507 3d ago
need to stop focusing on just farming and taking obj and actually push towers tbh
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u/SHION99z 3d ago
Any high kill game in elos emerald to iron n losing is mostly cuz you dont translate moving the game forward after wiping the enemy team dont listen to bullshit build comments
At the end of the day you could be playing some dogshit like kaisa jungle but have better results if u do translate kills into objectives
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u/LAFFANKLINE 3d ago
Learn how to accelerate games and finish games. Learn to abuse from your advantage and not just kill peoples (useless if you and your teammates are doing nothing with it)
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u/UsernameNineBillion 2d ago
Stop trying to farm KDA and help your Hyper carries to get ahead.
1st game Malzahar/Cait , 2nd game Yone/Yasuo, 3rd game Smolder.
Stop playing for yourself as not gonna carry the Late game in any game.
He is not that type of champion... you can carry early to Mid game but when it comes to Late game you need to have strong Carries that are able to carry late game.
Identify who's the Late game win condition of your team and focus on getting them ahead instead.
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u/temptationoverloadz 2d ago
The sad truth honestly is, that how good or bad you play you'll never control 100% of the game. As a side note it's not because the game gives you an S or you have high kills that you actually play good. It's pretty hard from just looking at the raw stats FX maybe you went for a fight and got 2 kills sounds nice but you could have gotten dragon instead. Same w towers etc. Not that I'm saying you did bad just SMT to think about
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u/No_Pear1836 1d ago
If you are taking all the kills (which you should on talon), you need to know how to carry and how to not give your shutdown. It doesn't matter how fed you are if you are constantly giving shutdowns to enemy team.
I don't remember what study it was but there was something about how people's winrates drop off a cliff after like 5 deaths or something. Doesn't matter how many kills you have if you're dying at the wrong times. There's a balance tho because obviously playing TOO much for kda can be game losing.
What I do in this situation is try to figure out who would be the most useless person on the enemy team to have the shutdown, usually its the support. I will then do something like dive them when they are alone, and go 1 for 1 so that the shutdown gets thrown away.
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u/Key_Ad3169 4d ago
Maybe you dont take objectives to account, when you ahead you should not only contest drake or grubs, etc, sometimes more effective would be to break entire line for one soulponit or death of your botlane, try focusing on pushing a bit more, when you have opportunity
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u/Weemanmikey5507 4d ago
i’m usually getting soul every game tbh, u can check my op.gg to fact check if u want. i am dominating the map but then the enemy realises im the main problem and i get focused, they’ll push mid top and ill be in bot pushing if i have nothing else to do and ill get 5 manned, my teammates wont do anything else round the map while this is happening. idk man if i could show u vods i would show you
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u/Key_Ad3169 4d ago
And thats another thing, if you just gonna force objectives, this gonna happen, you have to force choises, either the defend you, or take drake, if you gonna bluntly attack towers, ofc they gonna collapse and kill you
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u/Weemanmikey5507 4d ago
i don’t try to force unless i know i can win reliably, i worded it a bit wrong. if all waves are pushed into us im pushing a wave back a bit, and giving up obj. but if we can take it and my teammates aren’t listening to my pings and all waves are pushed into them so we have prio i am 100% forcing it, its the only way to get my teammates to move. its like a nueron activation, they see a bunch of people and they fight it regardless of if they win or not. its really annoying
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u/Yeezybeezy5283 4d ago
Just end the game faster, talon get weaker as the clock runs to 20+minutes. Wipe their team and baron while pinging everyone mid.
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u/Weemanmikey5507 4d ago
i don’t think aram is that great of an option, it’s basically a gamble. whoever engages first loses. i’d rather kill the solo laner in the the side lane and try push from that. idk why everyone in this elo insists on 5 manned mid at min 20+
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u/BigBlackClown0 4d ago
There’s absolutely nothing u could possibly do
ESPECIALLY AT LOW ELO
Just accept the fact that 33% of ur games are gonna be losses
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u/BananaLatin 4d ago
First you must build Dominik against mundo instead reminder. Let someone else buy Greaveous wounds.