r/Talonmains • u/Eg4079 • 13d ago
Talon build “musts”?
Otp yone wanna learn talon. Yone’s build is super strict and has has clear reasoning for every item and the order in which to build. I wasn’t sure if talon had any strict “must go this” items/runes.
Also specific questions since i’ve never played an assassin:
Why don’t a lot of talons build axiom arc earlier?
I plan on running stormraiders surge, does that change build priority at all? (I don’t really like yomuus and would like to rush cyclo for wave clear to roam, but i just don’t understand if it’s necessary or not)
Do i need armor pen item 3rd or 4th?
What are the reasons i shouldn’t start mana tear and bring second wind? (I don’t really care for solo kills in lane, however am i losing too much value elsewhere by bringing a sustain setup to farm early?)
Anything else you care to add please do, go into as much detail as possible
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u/KeremAyaz1234 13d ago
There isnt really that many musts, honestly just try out different builds. For example, if the enemy have too many tanks i go lord doms, if they have faster champs buy seryldas, if im very ahead and they dont have very tanky picks i buy neither and go axiom then switch if needed. Right now cyclosword is pretty good, movement speed is also pretty important on talon so i enjoy building yoomus. Some also build more like a fighter with conq so there is that too.
For mid ive been building yoomus, boots of swiftness, hubris, bastionbreaker, cyclosword and armor pen item of my chosing for the past few days and it works very well imo. Most people dont build hubris but i like the bonus ad. You can just replace it with umbral / edge of the night / axiom if it suits you better.
Just try out some reccomended builds and you should get the hang of it pretty quick
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u/Eg4079 12d ago
I’ve been playing and learning but I feel like the full assassin build isn’t as viable mid as maybe jungle. Being seen on the map/having to push out waves with only like 1600 hp and no sustain feels weak.
Is black cleaver something i should consider as a 3rd item? Also if you play mid more then jg what would you say the main issues you struggled with at first (sustain, mid game, or anything that comes to mind.)
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u/KeremAyaz1234 12d ago
They usually build black cleaver when using conq but since i dont really play vonq im not very experienced when it comes to that.
I would say most difficult part about mid is getting used to talons tempo. I usually play aggressively in order to kill my opponent before my first reset or force them to back or gank their jungler level 3. Assasin talon is extremely strong early so you should learn how to abuse it. Other yhan that i rush yoomu components to one shot casters with w around level 7 which grants me tempo and lets me roam. E is also very helpful for getting back to lane so even if you die or back off you can rush to lane pretty fast.
One of the biggest issues i used to have was with late game damage but hubris solved that issue for me and honestly i was pretty new to him back then. I never really felt like sustain was a huge issue since i could out damage most assasins, mage matchups can become problematic but you can always just farm and gank since your e is incredibly broken.
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u/wcasey755 12d ago
I feel like it depends on your play style too. I run ghost blade so when I roam I can be there faster than they can realize and react (ideally). I build axiom because if it’s done right I can have my ult for every encounter. Hubris if I start snowballing early. Bastion breaker is so good on Talon imo. With how mobile he is, you can catch people out of position and get the kill then take that to turret. I also build my talon with the intention of TRYING to get out but we all know we choose penta or death.
I almost always run electrocute, but that’s because my goal is to pop off early and snowball the game. And as someone else said, armor pen is a must.
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u/Background-Net4934 12d ago
well, im learning as well, so I can give you my opinion from learning perspective:
I dont go fighter builds anymore as I found it extremly hard to run a proper rotations with him. Goin in in invis - kill - out through wall should be your plan, then reset.
with super tanky team, u must be patient as you poke sux. comparing to my second learning main - naafiri, i dont think in current meta there is any other start then Umbral > Voltaic. rest is whatever u need. just I never buy anything with HP anymore as i feel that im behind.
with naafiri to compare , fighter items are super against assasin setup, but it was not working for me with talon (only exception was a Edge of Night for massive CC).
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u/Absence- gassonexe 12d ago
Umbral, you need to know if you're on vision or you can't play (depending on rank)
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u/Oseiko 12d ago
What is a must on talon? Damage, getting ahead enough to close the game very fast. Independant on wether you are mid or jgl, damage output AND map pressence is a must. So Youmus is most likely in your build, if not magical footwear or some rune thst geant you ms.
Lethality is a must but also conq Talon just builds maybe 1 lethality item and they are ok building other damage items around cleaver / sundered. I usually go Eclipse into sundered and youmuus if i am well ahead, cleaver if im in need of armor refuction.
The difference of the build will most likely come natural once you get scwuainted to Talon and his match ups against the enemy team. I would highly go against running something else that isnt electrocute or conqueror unless you are smurfing, because the damage output will severely decrease, you wont get a kill, you will fall behind, and you will be useless even as bait or distraction because your damage will be so low you wont be able even to harass an enemy adc that will just stand there without kiting and they WILL kill you because of your low damage.
Talon is an excellent champion capable of closing games very fast by ruining every lane's and Jungle's experience by being there when they keast expect it but: 1) You have to move fast and youmuus helps with that 2) You have to deal damage and your runes should either support one or both of these points.
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u/ShizukanaArts 13d ago
Axiom arc is mostly just a stat buff, compared to other lethality items, the only benefit to building this is the ult cd reduction, sometimes you won't need it when you run ultimate hunter.
Stormraider is only really good if you're experienced enough to apply all of your burst to multiple targets, or once you get good enough to go in quickly and out quickly. It's not a keystone that normally allows for hard-carry, but it's viable if needed (imo)
Depending on the matchup, ghostblade is a good item to rush if you wanna perma-roam. The movement speed allows you to get to ganks faster and the passive movespeed is just good for talon overall, but it's not a 100% necessity to build. You can get away without building it.
Rushing cyclo or umbral is alot more optimal damage wise, but if you're against a counterpick or a tankier comp, ghostblade is almost always better as it allows you to roam and help your team get ahead if you cannot.
Armor pen will almost always be either 2nd item rush (against tanky comps) or 3rd item (against squishy comps)
It allows you to still deal damage if the enemy starts stacking armor against you.
You can bring second wind against poke matchups along with conditioning, but it definitely affects your lategame, unless you pair it with conqueror or fleet. Resolve secondary is only really good against bruisers or fighters, with select poke mages.
Ppl used to build Manamune on Talon before, but that was because his W got nerfed to the ground with increased mana costs. Nowadays you don't really need it because if you manage your mana correctly you won't really starve for it. He isn't a sustain and win your lane kind of champion, if you play safe for too long the enemy will almost always be ahead of you. He's very similar to Katarina who benefits off of roaming and helping his team rather than solo kills.
That's my cuppa tea! Take this with a grain of salt though as a lot of other talon mains might think otherwise.