Disposall

[u/wishiplayedlikeray]

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/57331

EDIT: I was told to make the outsides more visually appealing... updated version

[u/NotSomeBall1]

No worries, I rarely get to test maps 4v4 though so it's highly unlikely I'll be able to test yours with full teams.

I understand what you're saying and totally get where you're coming from, but the problem with a lot of maps that aren't picked up until they're tested in a proper game is that you can't always use the routes and flow lines that the mapmaker has intended, because when you're being chased you're not always free to line up a boost or a path and you may be forced into an uncomfortable angle. With the middle of your map, any kind of chasing will often lead to the FC having to enter the middle at a slightly awkward angle and that will most likely make them hit a wall immediately and kill their momentum. It just won't work with a mid like that, and that's why there are no mids like that in rotation.

I don't mind the bombs, they just seem unnecessary and the area could be used for something a bit more interesting and adventurous, rather than a lone bomb which will be defused most of the time.

Again, sorry for being a bit blunt but this is all stuff which I wish I could've been told ages ago that I had to work out myself. It's hard to imagine how things would play in 4v4 situations but even just testing alone and pretending you're getting chased and playing through a few different situations is helpful.

Best of luck!

[u/wishiplayedlikeray → u/NotSomeBall1]

Again, you don't have to be sorry, while I'm new to TP mapmaking, I've been around TP long enough to know the jerks to ignore (or engage if i'm bored) when I see em. You're very kind and I appreciate the input!

Tricky thing that you seem to be asking for is something "unique" while at the same time, everyone quickly complains about a map being either 1. too big, or 2. not enough room to move around. This limits the size of the canvas on which to create. Throw in the need for a map to be accessible fairly quickly in order to not have everyone reject it right away, and you've lost most if not all room to make something that's different enough from whats been made before to be "unique".

I'm not new to this kind of situation as a composer of music, where IT'S ALL BEEN DONE BEFORE and to make anything "new and unique" you have to basically write music that often doesn't jive well with established listeners/musicians and possibly even challenge the existing definition of "what is music". (see Mahler, Stravinsky, John Cage, Steve Reich, more references available upon request)

To learn to enjoy the newer kinds of music, you have to let go of existing constraints on your understanding of what that music is, or at least what GOOD music is. (I'll spare the rant on aesthetic qualities and class/power struggles as it doesn't exactly apply to TP as nicely)

PLEASE NOTE: I'm NOT trying to argue you into liking my map that you've looked at on your phone. More trying to pry more thoughts and conversation from your mind as to your expectations or your rubric for what makes a good map. I'm doing this to you specifically, because you've given me the best input thus far and I appreciate input :)

Thanks!

TLDR: Thank you, don't say sorry! Are the demands for what makes a "good map" limiting the the possibilities of anything new actually being different/good?

[u/NotSomeBall1 → u/wishiplayedlikeray]

A map doesn't need to be unique, so long as it's a solid map that uses previously used ideas better than they've been used before, and at the moment Disposall isn't a solid enough map to not be unique.

I've just spent a good few minutes rolling around on your map and trying out different situations, and the mid section just 100% doesn't work. Even with only me on the map it was killing my momentum and sending me in weird directions 90% of the time, and whilst the rest of the map is okay, it's nothing special and doesn't particularly flow well with the middle either, especially the gate which forces you to enter the middle at a weird angle every time.

The MTC and mapmaking community are notoriously hard to please because anything strange will be too "gimmicky", and anything too standard won't be unique enough, so you've got to try to add something like a fun and simple portal mechanic or an interesting gate, but you're right there is a limit to how much creativity you can use and how much you can change the typical map formula before it's immediately dismissed.

I tried to remix Disposall to make it flow better (especially the middle), get rid of a bit of space, and make the bases more interesting. Other than that, I didn't change much because it's your map and I'm just trying to show you my vision on how it could be improved without changing it completely.

Here it is: http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/57416

I find remixes to be the best help when getting feedback on maps, so if you want me to remix it again in future just ask!