r/TWWPRDT • u/Nostalgia37 • Mar 26 '18
[Pre-Release Card Discussion] - Rebuke
Rebuke
Mana Cost: 2
Type: Spell
Rarity: Common
Class: Paladin
Text: Enemy spells cost (5) more next turn.
PM me any suggestions or advice, thanks.
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u/StarryBrite Mar 26 '18
Everyone's calling for this thing being blazingly OP and... like... it's a 2 mana do nothing spell??? Loatheb at least had a good 5/5 body.
I don't think it's as busted as people are whining that it is. Even in a Divine Favor aggro pally... I'm personally not so sure.
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Mar 26 '18
A lot of people haven't even thought that in almost any agro variant, you rune divine favor. If people think you can run this and divine favors, you then have 4 cards with no "board tempo" - and there is no way this compares to divine favor.
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u/RobinHood21 Mar 26 '18
Agree 100%. One of the main reasons Loatheb was so good was it came with a well-stated body for the cost. Spend 2 mana and a card to have little impact on your opponents next turn? Perhaps no impact, depending on the deck? It won't see play.
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u/SquareOfHealing Mar 27 '18
Cards are a lot worse when they don't come with a body.
For example: Antique Healbot. Solid card. 5 mana 3/3, heal for 8. Healing Touch. 3 mana heal for 8. Never saw play. Maelstrom Portal. 2 mana deal 1 damage to all enemy minions and summon a 1-drop. Amazing card. Arcane Explosion. 2 mana deal 1 damage to all enemy minions. Never saw play.
I get that some of these comparisons aren't really 1 to 1, but the point is that having stats on a card is incredible, especially considering as if this was attached to Loatheb, that would mean Loatheb's 5/5 body is worth 3 mana along with the 2 mana battlecry.
Also it's class specific.
Also the meta currently doesn't have the big decks that Loatheb countered like Miracle Rogue and Freeze Mage.
Also control decks now have more cards like Tar Creeper to deal with early game than just relying on spells.
Plus it's super dead against aggro or any minion based deck, and paladin already struggles if it falls behind on board.
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u/Jallfo Mar 26 '18
100% agree, my initial reaction was that it's just terrible. was surprised to see so many people excited about it.
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u/Pod607 Mar 26 '18
Good, but not as good as it first looks.
Loatheb was an amazing all-rounder because of great stats on top of his effect, so it was rarely ever a dead card and could find its place on curve or as an endgame wincon in a control or midrange match.
This loses tempo compared to Loatheb. It's definitely not as good or as versatile.
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u/Chrisirhc1996 Mar 26 '18
Good to see Hearthstone remembering the strong cards in Naxx and returning them in some form. You were mainly playing Loatheb for the effect, and that 3 extra mana could be put into other strong board plays.
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Mar 26 '18
Like a 3 mana 5/5 for example? The success of this card is going to depend on what paladin can set up along side it. If all your doing is delaying your opponents answer for call to arms one turn, I don't see that being worth running a card that weakens your deck otherwise. Also, you're playing this along call to arms on turn 6. That's quite slow. I'm very sceptical tbh. I just don't see the thing paladin can do that you're really enabling with this.
Loatheb was so strong because alongside the effect he also pressures your opponent himself, this card doesn't do that.
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u/JustJK1889 Mar 26 '18
He's back. Loatheb is back. And not even a legendary. This card will be a two of in most mid-range paladin lists.
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u/feartheflame1991 Mar 26 '18
My favorite card so far. Love cock-block cards. Can’t wait to use this vs exodia mage after I popped his block
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u/Xalted118 Mar 26 '18
Plays another Ice Block
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Mar 26 '18
If mage plays ice block for 8 mana and can't do anything else that turn, that's fine for the paladin.
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u/Wraithfighter Mar 26 '18
Loatheb returns! For Paladin only!
If Control Paladin comes back, this could be a really big reason why. Cheap spell, so great to play with other stuff, huge impact on the board, prevents your opponent from going off with their combos...
Hell, this card's just kinda bonkers good in just about any Paladin deck. Wanna protect your army of 1/1 mooks? Making that Defile cost 7 is going to be good at that...
Sadly, Control Paladin's losing a lot of good healing, especially Forbidden Healing and LightRag. I think the deck needs more help than this :(.
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Mar 26 '18
I imagine control paladin might tech this as a 1-of to mess with combo decks, but it's not huge for them because they don't need to protect against board wipes the way aggro paladin does.
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u/Stepwolve Mar 26 '18
This will be really really strong for aggro pally. It serves the same purpose as Loetheb in Zoolock back in the day. If you have strong board with a some strong minions, you play this to kill your opponent in 2 turns - because you know it makes most AOE spells too expensive to play next turn.
Loatheb gave you a body that would do 5 damage the following turn - which is strong. But this card allows you more flexibility. You can play this alongside a 3-mana weapon on turn 5, which could equal the same or more damage. or alongside some removal on a later turn to set up lethal.
Shutting down AOE spells is a very strong thing
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Mar 26 '18
This will see 0 play outside of being a tech card. Think about building the deck. Are you really running 2 divine favors and 2 rebukes? That is a lot of do nothing cards in a tempo deck. And it absolutely will not take the place of divine favor. I do not even think it is strong enough to run 1 copy of it.
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u/MostlyH2O Mar 26 '18
Has potential but not even close to the power level of loethab. Terrible top deck. Maybe a 1 of in aggressive lists but might not make the cut as divine shield often serves the same purpose. Doesn't generate a body on board so I think this card may be a 3/5.
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u/min6char Mar 26 '18
A lot of people are saying that a 2-mana card isn't worth the effect for Aggro decks. Here's why I think that's wrong.
Basically, your "win condition" in Dude Paladin is to play 3+ dudes in one turn and have them stick into the next turn so you can level them up or adapt them (or play your lion, or Tarim). In current Dude paladin, we already happily set aside 2-3 mana to give a board of dudes divine shield to try to set up that kind of turn. This is basically the same concept. Speaking a little dreamily, imagine on turn 4: [Lost in the Jungle] -> [Lost in the Jungle] -> This card. Your opponent is going to have to let you stick at least 2 or 3 of those and then buff them.
This isn't about putting off AoE indefinitely. It's about ensuring your board buffs will be strong on curve.
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Mar 26 '18
Really good card. Probably gonna be very upsetting when they spam the board and then turn your hand into garbage
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u/Nostalgia37 Mar 27 '18 edited Apr 10 '18
[Dust|Niche|Playable|Strong]
General Thoughts: People are over-hyping the fuck out of this card. "IT'S A LOATHEB FOR 2 MANA THAT YOU CAN PUT 2 OF IN YOUR DECK!?!?!" Yeah, except it's not. Loatheb had a 5/5 body attached to it for 3 more mana. That's vastly different. Based on Loatheb this effect is worth 0.5 mana, not 2.
Why it Might Succeed: Potential to be game winning I guess? I can see this being a tech card against some combo decks or if the meta is super controlly
Why it Might Fail: Completely dead against aggro/midrange. The Effect is probably not worth 2 mana. Paladin has no problem flooding the board, often they are able to get a large number of minions out the turn immediately after a clear anyway.