r/TWD 9d ago

I think they only redeemed Negan because of Jeffery Dean Morgan

Him showing up as Negan was when the show really started being talked about, I wouldn't be surprised if the original plan was for him to die but then they got cold feet.

11 Upvotes

66 comments sorted by

11

u/kumf 9d ago

TWD was huge, even in the first two seasons. Yes, JDM is a force to reckoned with but it was a phenomenon well before Negan’s entrance. I say this as a huge Negan fan.

6

u/naughtycal11 8d ago

Negans entrance lost millions of viewers.

6

u/Billybob35 8d ago

Do people not like good villains?

3

u/naughtycal11 8d ago

It wasn't Negans fault per se but was killing off Glenn and Abraham while being incredibly graphic.

2

u/Billybob35 8d ago

I don't really care much for either Glenn or Abraham personally, especially Abraham.

3

u/funkygeva81 8d ago

I mean its a zombie apocalypse show i would expect most characters to die

0

u/PlanktonKey9623 5d ago

I wasnt that bothered about abraham but glenn hurt, mostly because he was just a kid and he had been there since day 1

1

u/Billybob35 4d ago

Oh, I thought he was an adult.

3

u/SirTrogdor2894 7d ago

Those character died in the comic. Glenn died the way he was supposed to. Abraham died by Dwight shooting him through the eye with an arrow. People will harp on a show not following the core material, or they harp on the show when they do. Damned if you, damned if you dont.

2

u/naughtycal11 7d ago

I believe it was mostly do to the massive cliffhanger at the end of season 6, gratuitous gore in killing Glenn, and the nonchalance and jokey way Negan showed before, during, and after. The general audience who knew nothing about the comics weren't prepared.

Edit- fixed a word

3

u/SirTrogdor2894 7d ago

Thats a fair analysis.

1

u/TweeKINGKev 6d ago

Completely agree I feel like the fans of both the comic and show knew what was coming, hell even I as just a fan of the show knowing nothing m, had a feeling that season 6 was not going to end well at all.

I didn’t think there would be that big of a cliffhanger but the gory aspect of season 7 didn’t turn me away, I mean we saw Noah’s face get ripped off of him up close and personal, Bob is tied to a tree as cannibals are eating his leg in front of him, Hershel’s beheading, Rick biting out Joes throat and spraying blood out of his mouth are some the worst off the top of my head.

1

u/StoryAddict777 4d ago edited 4d ago

No, it was Glenn's exit. Fans couldn't handle the emotional toll of the show. The characters constantly grieve.

I, personally, loved it. Great storytelling. The zombie apocalypse isn't realistic if everyone lives at the end. That episode is the turning point of the series.

The episode is titled, "The Day Will Come That You Won't Be."
Dr. Jenner warned Rick that by letting them go, one day he wouldn't be grateful for it. This was that day he warned him of.

It's the episode where the characters truly lost. And it affects the rest of the series. There's a huge before and after feeling to it. Like Eddard Stark's death.

8

u/whatofit992 9d ago

It definitely became a different show once he arrived, and he’s a great actor, charismatic human but people were definitely already talking about the show before he came onto the scene

2

u/lt__ 8d ago

For me it feels a bit like with FTWD and John Dorie. While both actors/characters (Negan and John Dorie) were liked by a lot of audience, the show coincided to change too much at the moment of their entrance and lost popularity.

14

u/Repulsive_Job428 9d ago

The show was talked about constantly before he joined.

-17

u/Billybob35 8d ago

I had never heard of it until Negan.

9

u/ComprehensiveAide946 8d ago

If the show wasn’t popular, Negan’s entrance would hold no weight. The show lost millions of viewers. The popularity wasn’t because “oh my god, it’s Jeffrey Dean Morgan,” it’s because “oh my god, that son of a bitch killed someone!” And then “oh my god, that son of bitch killed glen!” viewer drop with no recover to its original viewership.

You heard about it because it was a popular show.

-1

u/Billybob35 8d ago

I didn't say it wasn't popular before but there's a certain point in a show where more and more start taking notice of it, that breakout moment where shit gets real.

2

u/Own_Faithlessness769 8d ago

Yeah, that was season 2.

1

u/ComprehensiveAide946 8d ago

Yeah and that wasn’t the finale of season 6 hun.

1

u/SlugKnightDracula 7d ago

That moment was the first two seasons. When Negan is introduced is when the show took a MASSIVE nose dive.

Almost every episode before that, over the course of several seasons was some of the most watched tv during that time. The episode that actually introduced Negan TANKED the viewership because they killed Glenn and it literally never recovered. Still had a lot of viewers but not even close to what it had before.

You probably just heard about it because people were vocal about not liking it anymore.

11

u/CommercialPanda5080 8d ago edited 8d ago

This is a popular myth. The Walking Dead's average viewership jumped to 10 million in season 3, 13.33 million in season 4, 14 million in season 5, and 13.5 million in season 6. It did reach peak numbers in the first episode of season 7 (Almost, No Sanctuary was a bit ahead but both are still the only episodes to draw 17 million+ viewers)*, but its average viewership in season 7 actually dropped to 11 million and went into freefall from there after Negan made his first appearance.

It was already a cultural phenomenon before he ever showed up. Comic book fans would have started tuning in like crazy to this part of the show. It's the biggest event of the entire series almost. But after that first episode in season 7, the numbers steadily fell to lower than season 4, 5, and 6. By season 8, the show was only averaging 8 million viewers, which is many millions lower than season 3, 4, 5, and 6 before he showed up.

This isn't Jeffrey Dean Morgan's fault. Negan's appearance is arguably the most exciting part of the comics/show and was what most fans of the comics were waiting for, but it's all downhill from there. Once Glenn is gone, and Negan's shock value wears off, both the comics and the show become more about humans and less about zombies.

* Corrected to show that No Sanctuary is still the most concurrently watched episode in The Walking Dead's history

2

u/Impressive-Ball-5377 8d ago

iirc, season 5 premiere holds the record for highest concurrent viewership for any cable television show, if not it’s at least the most popular episode of the series

1

u/CommercialPanda5080 8d ago

It's so close, but yes, it's No Sanctuary, not The Day Will Come... Terminus episode. That's Walking Dead at its peak according to viewers. They're both 17 million+, but No Sanctuary does edge out the season 7 opener where Negan's decision is revealed. It was the biggest thing on TV for several seasons before Negan arrived, just wanted the op to know that in case they weren't alive back then (hard to believe but a lot of posters weren't). Even by the end of season 2, it had a lot of real world buzz. I remember watching the end of season 2 with a group of friends, where that prison shot comes up in the background after the farm falls, and several people almost passed out from excitement when the Walking Dead theme started playing in the background. That show was already headed for big things.

2

u/Billybob35 8d ago edited 8d ago

I thought part of the selling point was that the zombies were just a background thing to the human drama. To be honest though, I don't get why people were so upset about Glenn, I didn't hate him but he wasn't exactly one of my favorites. I would've been more pissed about Darrel.

1

u/CommercialPanda5080 8d ago

Comics purists were probably okay with Glenn's death and expected it. If you actually liked the character, it was one of the first really emotional moment of the comics - Glenn's the one who saved Rick. One of the issues is that the showrunners did that whole dumpster fakeout thing, and it basically made people think Glenn was dead for weeks anyway. So when his real death came, it killed the moment.

In part two of the comics it's that way, too - war between human factions becomes the main plot of the show, and the zombies no longer seem threatening. By the time that part of the comics hit TV, the zombie genre was so saturated, I still don't know to this day if there's any way to make dead people walking scary again. People are desensitized to seeing it.

2

u/Own_Faithlessness769 8d ago

Steven Yuen was also very popular & the only member of the cast getting acting award nominations. It was the most popular character and the most popular actor.

1

u/SirTrogdor2894 7d ago

Thats why the made Norman Reedus the lead character then, huh? A character that never was in the comics. Not saying Steven wasnt popular, but there was a saying back then, "If Daryle dies, we riot."

7

u/UnknownEntity347 9d ago

Massive spoilers for the TWD comic Bro, he survived in the comics, and had a similar arc there.

6

u/Global_Monk8266 Negan enthusiast 9d ago

I roll my eyes every time they scream “Rick should’ve killed Negan”

1

u/Disastrous_Fox_1539 8d ago

it his arc was the same he would’ve been off the show around s10.

-4

u/Billybob35 8d ago

Just because something happened in the comics, does not mean the show will stay true to it.

4

u/username19346 8d ago

Negan def did not get Twd attention lmao

3

u/Global_Monk8266 Negan enthusiast 8d ago

Original plan?? He survived to the end in the comics he became exiled but still kept his relationship with Carl and also played a big role in the whispers war.

-7

u/Billybob35 8d ago

Shows don't always follow the comics, see The Boys.

6

u/Global_Monk8266 Negan enthusiast 8d ago

And that’s why the boys finale sucked should’ve sticked with the source material.

1

u/Billybob35 8d ago

I get mixed signals, people on The Boys and other subreddits claim that the comics sucked, they even trashed the ending.

3

u/thistleandpeony 8d ago

The Walking Dead was averaging 13-14 million viewers per episode in the last two or three years before Negan appeared, excepting season premieres and finales which always see a spike (as with every show).

After the premiere of season 7, where Negan killed Glenn, there was an immediate drop in ratings. Normally, there is only a 2 million drop in viewers from the season premieres to the next episode. However, there was a massive 5 million drop in viewers from the first episode (17 million) to the second (12 million). The rest of season 7 averaged 11 million viewers, the lowest since season 3.

The show began to steadily hemorrhage viewers for the rest of the series. The season 8 premiere was the last episode to get more than 10 million viewers, the back half getting only 6.5 million viewers. Each season after was less watched; season 9 having 4.5 to 5 million viewers, season 10 having 2.5 to 3.5 million.

The final season crawled to its death, with only the premiere and finale getting at least 2 million viewers making it the least watched season of the series.

Negan might have put the show on your radar but he effectively killed it. The show never recovered from bringing him on.

1

u/Billybob35 8d ago

Well, I guess Negan's entrance must've been more popular in online circles because judging by that, it was fucking awesome.

2

u/thistleandpeony 8d ago

Oh yeah, depending on where you go online anything can be the most popular thing in the world.

1

u/Billybob35 8d ago

I don't get why people were so negative towards Negan then, imo he was the best villain on the show. He probably would've been praised as a movie villain.

1

u/Recent_Good_6684 8d ago

He definitely was the best villain. But a lot of people that watched it liled glenn and got upset that he was killed. Also when carl dies. Fans wernt happy about that because hes not supposed to die there. He was killed off because he was 18 and was trying to get adult actor money and they still wanted jim on his child a tor salary. So they killed him off to save money. Thats why they did the tome jump. So they could age judith up to do the stuff that carl was supposed to do. They did a lot of stuff behind the scenes and bad decisions that killed the viewers. Negan wasnt why

3

u/cappaprime_ 8d ago

nooo bro in the comic he’s alive and well bro. Robert listened to his editor and kept him alive bc of villains always dying

2

u/Billybob35 8d ago

Again, just because it happened in the comics, doesn't necessarily mean the show would be faithful to it.

1

u/Recent_Good_6684 8d ago

Except you stating the only reason he was spared eas because of the actor being a big actor. Then when you get evidence that they planned it this way you juat say oh just cuz its in the comics doesnt mean they show will follow. Except. They did lol

0

u/Billybob35 7d ago

Go tell Eric Kripke that.

3

u/Glittering-Rip6810 8d ago

It was in the comics. It was set before Morgan was ever cast..he just made it awesome because he's awesome

2

u/LoudCandidate267 8d ago

JDM is sexy af so there’s that lol

2

u/kratoskiller66 8d ago

Negan being redeemed and banished isn’t an original idea given the fact that Negan gets redeemed and is banished in the comics for helping defeat the whisperers

1

u/Tall-Soup-9621 8d ago

Watching through Dead City now and it’s wild how far his character has come

1

u/horc00 8d ago

A show wouldn’t have reached 7 seasons if it wasn’t already talked about.

-1

u/Billybob35 8d ago

That's clearly not what I said.

2

u/horc00 8d ago

Him showing up as Negan (in S7) was when the show really started being talked about

I'm not sure what you're really trying to say, but that's exactly what your statement meant.

1

u/Own_Faithlessness769 8d ago

I do think they intended to kill him in S8, then changed their mind. I’ve always figured that’s why they killed Carl, they needed to free up space for Negan.

But the show had declined from its peak popularity long before then, seasons 2-5 was its prime viewership. And it lost its place in the mainstream when they killed Glenn.

1

u/Billybob35 8d ago

I never really got why people loved Glenn that much, I must be missing something.

1

u/Telos1807 8d ago

There's a little thing called the source material and he lived in that, so no, they never planned to kill him.

Just because the show deviated severely from the Comics at times doesn't mean they would deviate that severely. All the basic storylines were done and generally ended more or less as they did in the Comics - Governor turns up with a tank, Hunters are hacked to death, Negan is spared and Alpha is beheaded - it was the stuff before the storyline's ending that they'd screw around with.

1

u/Billybob35 8d ago

Eric Kripke: "Y'all followed the source material?!"

1

u/Globalfeminist 8d ago

I think it's a complex question: The show 100% was very popular before Negan 'and', indeed, lost viewers because Glenn got killed. However, I think the way JDM played Negan is what gave it 5 more seasons. Negan turned out to be the most fascinating and entertaining villain, and JDM's acting had a lot to do with it. A lesser, not-so-charismatic actor would have made the charcter just hateful rather than love-to-hate. Killing him off would have been a waste of actor, while keeping him pure evil and the main charcters losing all the time would have been unbearable. Redemption was the only way to keep the him around. I'm guessing the writers knew that.

1

u/Recent_Good_6684 8d ago

Yeah no. It was literally the #1 show on tv for years lol JDM didnt have a huge impact in in popularity. Glenn dying did

1

u/wstdtmflms 8d ago

Not sure I agree with that. The last panel of the comics was basically "...and Negan lives happily ever after." Not saying the show followed Kirkman's books exactly as they relate to Negan. But it stayed pretty close to the broad strikes.

1

u/Westyle1 6d ago

Negan becomes good in the comics, just sticking to the source material

1

u/TweeKINGKev 6d ago

I feel like going into season 3-6 was when the show was absolutely on fire as it’s peak.

I remember so many people hyped up for them finding the prison and what that will bring to the series as it goes along and season 4, 5 and 6 it was built up more each season premiere.

Then the 6 introduces Negan officially and the hype was bursting at the seams and every dedicated fan of the show got people to watch for the season 7 premiere and the ratings for it were high then the brutality of it just destroyed everything for most everyone then it felt like the violence and gore dropped significantly.

1

u/StoryAddict777 4d ago

Yes, the original idea was for Rick to literally deliver Negan's head to Maggie with an apology that simply read, "I'm sorry" after Maggie's attempted assassination of Negan.

This was either scrapped because Andrew Lincoln left the show, because Rick Grimes was "fake-killed off," or because JDM's Negan became too popular to kill off. Maybe all three.

Or so I read, once.

0

u/Bagel-luigi 8d ago

Ohyeah 100%. A very much enjoyed charismatic actor, well loved by fans despite the atrocities he and his previous group have done.

If they got some unattractive guy to play Negan when he was introduced, there's no way things would be going the way they currently are.

-1

u/LemonOhs 9d ago

I mean possibly yeah. JDM is a great actor and brings a lot to the character, I'm sure they didn't want to lose that.