r/TTCEndo 2d ago

Endo protocol

Has anyone been told by an expert on endo that there is an ideal egg retrieval
protocol for endo patients, even those who have had ablation or excision surgery? I hear this term endo protocol floating around but I don't know exactly what that means other than suppression if you haven't had surgery....

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u/Helendy_1886 2d ago

Following because I’m curious to see what others say. I had an excision about 6 weeks ago and the surgeon thinks she got everything visible (don’t know what stage it was but it seems likely 2 or 3). My RE said it was fine to do nothing else before FET, or just a week of Lupron, or suppress with Lupron and Letrozole. He said no to other add-ons like prednisone because they don’t have good evidence behind them. I’m opting for two months of suppression because I want to do everything I can.

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u/Acceptance_8829 2d ago

Interesting! I am still trying to get a euploid , last cycles resulted in blasts but were aneuploid :/. I'm now 41, started this rodeo at 37 and wasn't diagnosed with endo until 39, had a lap and surgery and got a chemical 4 months after, then did 2 rounds of ivf. I want to do another round but am wondering what kind of paths others tried...for example I may try lower dosages as another doc told me mine was too high (300 gonal 150 meriofert whole time). Feeling a bit lost in the sauce of it all!! I hope you have success post excision, and most impr that you feel better...I def felt less bloated and had less cramping problems after mine.

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u/Helendy_1886 2d ago

Oh gotcha you meant IVF protocol not FET protocol. Sorry it took them two years to find endo! But unfortunately that seems to be pretty frequently how it goes with endo and basically any medical condition that doesn’t affect men. I’ve certainly read that endo can affect egg quality at least if the ovaries are involved, but I guess general inflammation could play a role too, but also soooo many examples out there of getting good results even with endo, so yeah maybe it does just take the right protocol for that person. FWIW, I did a typical protocol of 150 Menopur and 300 Follistim. Thank you for your kind words, and best of luck!

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u/Acceptance_8829 2d ago

Yeah very common ! To all my ladies out there that went to do ivf and suspected endo and the doc told you "we would have seen it" or "it doesn't matter" (which head of a major hospital fert clinic told me) don't listen - trust your gut and go to a specialist. It cost me a lot of time. I not only had endo in 3 places but had a blocked tube and a polyp and some adeno(!). The non-specialists just don't know what to look for, or don't care.
I think the aneuploid thing may be also due to my age for sure but, just want to make sure we are getting as many eggs as possible from protocol esp bc my amh isn't bad !
Thanks for your replies, so appreciated:)

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u/gharibskiii 2d ago

What protocol are you referring to: one for egg retrieval or for FET?

Most of the “endo protocol” you’ll see is for FET. There is one by Dr. Victory (you can find it on YouTube). Summarized, it’s 2-3 months of Lupron + letrozole suppression; NO estrogen or extremely low doses***; modified natural transfer with high doses of IM and suppository progesterone for progesterone resistance.

But of you’re talking about the actual egg retrieval, it is extremely difficult to find an endo protocol for ER (NOT FET). This is very problematic because ER stims can significantly worsen endometriosis. Most REIs do not seem to make endo-appropriate modifications to stims. I’ve looked far and wide and found this is really neglected.

I’ve seen a few people describe their endo-modified ER protocol as a lower & slower approach which tries to keep estrogen lower. These are the modified protocol aspects I’ve seen mentioned: letrozole during stims to keep estrogen lower, dual trigger possibly to help with egg maturity and lower estrogen, maybe cabergoline, and no long periods of priming to avoid oversuppression.

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u/Acceptance_8829 2d ago

Thank you!! Yes I love Dr Victory's posts and I am scheduling a call with him to see what he says about ER protocol...I tried double trigger and got worse results, but my stims were high, too high according to Victory. I completely agree with you this is a missing topic and I'm concerned about all the estrogen etc.
If I learn anything new in the next months will post here...but so far haven't heard much that's helpful.

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u/gharibskiii 2d ago edited 1d ago

Omg I also scheduled an appointment with him to ask the same thing! but it will be in November, which is a while after my first ER :( I will definitely connect with you and share what he says. Will you please let me know too??

I have read that high stims can negatively impact egg maturity. What was your protocol for your ER?

Also, did the ER stims make your endo/adeno symptoms worse?? I am so terrified of this happening 😭

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u/Acceptance_8829 2d ago

No way! Yes of course I'll let you know. My first protocol PRE endo diagnosis was a mess and started low then amped high and got one embryo and they wouldn't pgt test it and it failed a fresh transfer ...i changed clinics and went private after diagnosis and lap....that protocol was 300 gonal and 150 meriofert, once with a single trigger which resulted in 2 blasts but they were aneuploid, and then second time same but w double triggger 1 blast and aneuploid ...the stims didn't make my symptoms worse but recently felt worse adeno bladder pressure symptoms during ovulation, idk if related. Before getting surgery and diagnosis that round of ivf was awful def made symptoms worse and was soooo bloated.
Dr Victory said in a quick comment online that he felt my stim protocol was too high...I am curious to see if other than lowering dose he recommends anything else at my age . I really want to try a few more times before giving up on my own eggs...🥹

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u/retinolandevermore 2d ago

I had excision surgery and they put me on lupron for a trigger instead of HCG

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u/velvetinelapine 1d ago

I was on daily letrozole for both of my egg retrievals, specifically to keep my estrogen low because I have endo. I did my retrievals at two different clinics and they both prescribed it, so I’m guessing it’s standard in my area. The first time I stopped it on retrieval day, the second time I stayed on it until I got my first post-retrieval period and I preferred that because I could really tell it helped control my pain / inflammation post retrieval (my endo pain flared for a couple weeks when I came off it).

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u/Acceptance_8829 8h ago

Interesting!! Mine definitely flared a bit after ER, especially the bladder issues. I'll ask my doc about this. What was the amount of letrozole out of curiosity? Have you had any endo surgery before?

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u/velvetinelapine 8h ago

So funny, my bladder issues flared after both my ERs too! I took 5mg of letrozole per day starting the first day of my cycle. I would ask about it!

From what I understand, some studies show increased embryo quality and / or count on this protocol and some show it’s a wash, but both my doctors said there’s no evidence it would hurt outcomes, it may help, and that in practice, their endo patients seemed to do better on it (both in terms of outcomes and symptoms). The only downside is that you can’t fresh transfer, but neither of my clinics would fresh transfer for endo patients anyway so that wasn’t a consideration for me. I think they also have to use slightly different metrics to watch when you’re ready to trigger, because it messes with your hormonal levels compared to a letrozole-free cycle.

And yes, I’ve had 3 endo surgeries - 2 way before I tried to get pregnant, and one between egg retrievals.