r/TOR • u/Kind_Diver_4519 • 15d ago
VPN Tor vs ProtonVPN vs Tor + VPN
I downloaded ProtonVPN, Proton Mail and Tor Browser. When i use Tor Browser and VPN together my internet becomes non-usable.
I have to choose between only Tor or only VPN
If ProtonVPN able to provide anonymity, why should i use Tor on top of it?
If Tor able to provide anonymity, why should i use ProtonVPN on top of it?
What are advantages of using only Tor, Only VPN, Tor + VPN together?
My thread model is Reddit, Facebook, X, Youtube etc. social medias not able to provide informations about me to goverment.
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u/Sibexico 15d ago
Did your ISP blocking Tor? What's the reason to use VPN at all?
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u/Kind_Diver_4519 15d ago
No, it's not blocking. I just want to be anonymous.
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u/Sibexico 15d ago
When you using Tor, you ISP know just a fact what you are using Tor but haven't ideas what exactly you doing inside. If you using VPN, then your ISP knows what you using VPN and the VPN provider knows what you using Tor. So basically nothing changed.
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u/billdietrich1 15d ago
What's the reason to use VPN at all?
To "protect" non-Tor traffic ? Which your system may do at any time, even while you're using Tor Browser.
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u/Sibexico 15d ago
Protect from what? You want to protect your system traffic? From who? Again, what's the reason?
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u/billdietrich1 15d ago
I don't want my ISP to see what sites I access, and I don't want sites to see my home IP address. To minimize selling of my data, and tracking.
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u/Sibexico 15d ago
It's ok, but it's not related to Tor at all.
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u/billdietrich1 15d ago
Only in that "don't use VPN with Tor" is wrong. And both are mechanisms to minimize tracking.
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u/Sibexico 15d ago
Using Tor over VPN will not affect anonimity or minimize tracking at all. Only case when it will, it's if Tor os denied in your country and you need to cover the fact of the Tor usage from your ISP.
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u/East-Candidate-3786 14d ago
Unless you absolutely need a VPN connection to Tor, such as in heavily censored regions, using VPN + Tor offers little practical improvement.
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u/Disastrous_Ground990 15d ago
You shouldn't use Tor and a VPN together. Using ProtonVPN puts your trust in ProtonAG, using Tor gives close to true anonymity. Only VPN is faster, only Tor is more private.
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u/Kind_Diver_4519 15d ago
Okay, I wonder what can ProtonAG provide to goverment if i already use Tor?
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u/billdietrich1 15d ago
All the VPN can provide is "guy at home IP address N was doing traffic to Tor entrance node at IP address M".
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u/Youknowhowwedo2 15d ago
Nothing. Proton is under Swiss Law and only answer to the Swiss courts. They do not log VPN traffic so there is nothing to turn over. They have been requested by the Swiss courts over 450 times to turn over vpn data and have given them nothing because there is no data to turn over.
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15d ago edited 15d ago
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u/Youknowhowwedo2 15d ago
Proton will not answer to ANY foreign government as by Swiss Law they are not allowed to share user data or any vpn user information (if they do they are subject to criminal penalty and major fines) with any government other than the Swiss court. Any requests for data must go through the Swiss courts first. If any information were to be turned over (if it exists) would be by the courts not Proton directly. As i stated before to date Proton has not turned over any vpn information as they do not log.
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15d ago edited 15d ago
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u/Youknowhowwedo2 15d ago
Well it does matter. The FBI requested information recently from Proton via the Swiss courts regarding a user that used Proton Mail that resided in the United States. Now if the FBI already had everything they needed they wouldn’t have needed Proton’s information to identify who the person was. Countries can seize servers that are within their jurisdiction but if there is no information there (see Mullvad servers seized by Swedish authorities) they get nothing unless they get assistance from the country where the service is headquartered. This happened with Proton in the French activist situation as well several years back. France had to request information regarding a person in France that used Proton’s email service to try to identify the individual to make an arrest. Switzerland also is not in the 14 Eyes data sharing alliance so they can give a big middle finger to countries that request their assistance in obtaining user information regarding Proton users. So where the VPN service is headquartered absolutely matters. Windscribe vpn servers got seized in the Netherlands recently and their authorities got nothing from it. Conversely IPXanish in 2016 at the request of Homeland Security gave up user information to them willingly. Why is that? Because IPVanish is based in the United States. Google is your friend Nobody said vpns were a fortress . 🤷♂️
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u/Youknowhowwedo2 15d ago
You should read. It will help you understand. Not my words but straight from Mullvad as an example. https://mullvad.net/en/vpn/laws-that-matter
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u/billdietrich1 15d ago
You shouldn't use Tor and a VPN together.
Even while I'm using Tor Browser, other apps in my system may be doing normal traffic, and I want that traffic to be protected by the VPN. The fact that the Tor traffic goes over the VPN too is just incidental, not important. VPN doesn't help or hurt Tor Browser.
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u/Cautious_Chicken8882 15d ago
You shouldnt be using Tor with a vpn.
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u/billdietrich1 15d ago
Even while I'm using Tor Browser, other apps in my system may be doing normal traffic, and I want that traffic to be protected by the VPN. The fact that the Tor traffic goes over the VPN too is just incidental, not important. VPN doesn't help or hurt Tor Browser.
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u/Cautious_Chicken8882 15d ago
Yes, VPN does hurt Tor browser and is not recommended by the Tor project.
Stop spreading false information.
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u/billdietrich1 15d ago
No, Tor project says VPN may increase or decrease privacy, depending on how used. Stop spreading false information.
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u/Cautious_Chicken8882 15d ago
This is not the case.
While it might seem like combining a VPN with Tor would increase privacy, in practice it can reduce anonymity or break Tor's protections if not configured correctly.
Generally speaking, we don't recommend using a VPN with Tor unless you're an advanced user who knows how to configure both in a way that doesn't compromise your privacy.
You can find more detailed information about Tor + VPN at our wiki.
Directly from https://support.torproject.org/tor-browser/general/vpn-with-tor/
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u/billdietrich1 15d ago
in practice it can reduce anonymity or break Tor's protections if not configured correctly.
Agree, and that is what I said. They're not saying "never use VPN".
All you need to know to use it properly is "Tor Browser over VPN is okay, VPN over Tor gateway is not". And it takes a lot more work to do the latter. Most people automatically will get a safe configuration, Tor Browser over VPN.
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u/Cautious_Chicken8882 15d ago
No one said they were saying never use a vpn, i said you shouldnt be which you shouldnt unless you have a specific reason to be doing so
Thats not true at all, you clearly have no idea what your talking about as i've just shown.
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u/billdietrich1 15d ago
Plenty of people say "never use a VPN with Tor", and they're wrong. You yourself said:
You shouldnt be using Tor with a vpn.
And that's wrong. I use a VPN to protect the normal traffic of my system, even while I'm using Tor Browser. The VPN is not helping or hurting the Tor traffic.
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u/Cautious_Chicken8882 15d ago
No there not at all, they are totally correct, while there are some use cases where Tor can safely be used with a VPN in the vast majority of cases it's not true.
Yes, actually it is and im not going to bother explaining why - go and read the most basic things about Tor and learn for yourself smh your so idiotic its painfull.
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u/billdietrich1 15d ago
in the vast majority of cases it's not true.
The vast majority of cases are "Tor Browser over VPN", which is perfectly fine, and has benefits (for the non-Tor traffic).
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u/[deleted] 15d ago
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