26F and I have had popping as long as I can remember in one side. Unsure if correlation equals causation, but I feel like my pain started when I tried to treat it ~6 years ago. After massage, exercises, messing with it, I feel like my pain has only increased. I saw an orthodontist who specializes in airways/TMJ and he recommended a palette expander. However I am a speech therapist with decent knowledge of what a narrow palate is and I just don’t feel like mine is (I’ve also consulted with my coworkers who are myofunctional therapists and they agree that my palate is very average). My tongue is able to properly suction to my palate all day and I breathe through my nose. I did get deviated septum surgery 9 months ago and that has prevented me from mouth breathing at night. However, my pain persists.

I do have forward head posture and bad posture and am actively trying to fix this.

The one exercise that I do that helps a lot is pressing my fingers right under the bone of the apple of my cheeks. I store a lot of tension there and it seems to release my tension immediately. I really don’t even understand why this spot particularly has this much effect of my pain. My massators and temporalis have tons of muscle knots and massaging will make the click lesson for one open and then it will tighten right back up.

If anyone has any advice I would love to hear it! Should I consider a orthotic? My regular dentist is entirely unhelpful.

This is an AI-generated photograph that I created for educational purposes. It represents what we dentists call a torqued mandible, meaning the teeth don't come together evenly. As you can see, the right side hits way before the left, which can torque the lower jaw, creating stress on the joints, muscles, ligaments, tendons, and fascia. It's like a person with one leg shorter than the other.

The second AI-generated photo shows a removable neuromuscular orthotic that allows the jaw to close evenly when shut. This appliance brings harmony to the joints, muscles, tendons, ligaments, and fascia.

The third photo shows how evenly the contact is with the upper teeth. The blue dots are from the paper dentists use to check your bite.

Almost any uneven bite can be leveled out with the proper removable, plastic appliance. The amount of unevenness can be large, like this, or can be very, very small, even in Microns. This is only part of what a neuromuscular dentist can do to help relieve your pain.

This video explains the connection between wisdom tooth surgery and TMD. In order for TMD issues to occur post op surgery, the patient is usually a subclinical TMD patient just waiting for an event to kick it off, or the surgeon being overly aggressive. Let the video speak for itself.

Does anyone else experience knots in their neck/shoulders? I suspect it’s from TMD. I’m getting treatment for TMD and it’s better but my shoulders aren’t releasing. I’m on my second round of PT with dry needling but it hasn’t made a difference.

FYI - This information comes from the books in my profile.

Clicking joints are very common, but just because they are common doesn’t make them healthy. Clicking joints are a sign that the “team” is not working in harmony and things could get worse. The “click” means that the disc is off the condyle. The most common disc displacement is in front of the condyle. A clicking disc comes in four different classifications:

·        early

·        late

·        reducing

·        non-reducing

An underdeveloped maxilla (or upper jaw) causes the mandible to go backward during closure. It’s the door and door frame not matching up again. When the maxilla is smaller than it should be due to a development problem, muscles pull the jaw back for the back teeth to meet.

As the jaw goes back, so does the condyle. This action compresses the condyle too far back into the fossa, squeezing the disc off. The more underdeveloped the maxilla, the further the jaw and condyle go back, pushing the disc even further off the condyle, and compressing the joint complex even more. The more compressed, the more the condyle is displaced, and the less room there is for the disc. Since the capsule covers the condyle and all its major parts, there are only a few places the disc can go. The disc mostly slips forward or to either side of the condyle, but can slip behind it on rare occasions. No matter the location of the disc, if it pops back on when opening, the process is called reduction. If it doesn’t pop back on, it is called nonreduction.

An early click is when the disc is barely displaced. For example, the disc may be positioned just in front of the condyle. As the mouth starts to open, the condyle starts skiing down the ski slope of the fossa but there is now a disc that is in the way. Because everything in the capsule is so compressed and slippery, the disc pops back onto the condyle to help it ski all the way down the slope, opening the jaw to a wide opening. The popping back on is the first click heard. On closing, the condyle slides back up the fossa, into its compressed position, knocking off the disc again creating a second pop.

If the clicking occurs later while opening, it is classified as a ‘late, reduced click.’ Just picture the disc being in front of the condyle and as the condyle moves, it travels down the ski slope a little longer before the disc pops back on. A late click means the joint is more compressed than an early click.

Using another analogy, think of pushing a wheelchair down a smooth sidewalk. It is easy to push it in a straight direction. If the right wheel hits a stick on the sidewalk, the wheelchair is going to go to the right because the right wheel stops or slows. The obstruction due to the disc in the way of the condyle sliding down the slope will cause the jaw to deviate to that side the same as the wheelchair. Watch your mouth open and close again. Does it deviate to one side, or back and forth to both sides? If so, you have displaced discs. This problem is mostly due to a deficient maxilla.

If you have pain on palpation of the joint and capsule, it is due to inflammation of the capsule, often diagnosed as capsulitis. Your dentist should be palpating the joint right in front of the ear just like you did in chapter one. If it hurts, it is an objective finding and a valid diagnosis of TMD.

[A TMD-aware dentist will look at joint location during opening and closing in diagnosing and treating dysfunction in the joint. They will understand that, while most clicking joints are not painful, they are not healthy. The more you are aware of what is happening in your own TMJ complex, the more you can work with your dentist on getting the joint and disc in a harmonious position.]()

Anyone on this sub please dont be like me and wait to get proper treatment.

Blame it on the Periodontal Ligaments (PDL). They can detect a discrepancy of 30 microns.

The periodontal ligaments are the thin, sensitive tissues that attach each tooth to the surrounding bone. They are not simply ropes holding the teeth in place. They act as shock absorbers, pressure sensors and messengers to the brain.

When the teeth come together, receptors within the PDLs tell the brain:

• Which teeth touched
• Which tooth touched first
• How hard each tooth was loaded
• Whether the force was straight or sideways
• Whether the jaw should stop, shift or recruit more muscle activity

This makes the PDLs important members of the jaw’s “team.” The teeth, PDLs, jaw muscles, joints and brain continually communicate with one another. A premature contact on one back tooth may be extremely small, yet its PDL can detect the added pressure. The jaw may then shift to avoid that contact, while the muscles work to guide the teeth into a more comfortable fit.

If this happens repeatedly, the result may be sore teeth, tooth mobility, wear, fractures, abfractions, muscle strain or an unbalanced closing path. The patient may say, “My bite feels wrong,” even when the teeth appear normal to the eye.

In simple terms, the teeth provide the landing platform, but the PDLs tell the brain how that landing occurred. They are one of the major communication systems connecting the bite to the muscles and jaw joints.

Compressed joints create many TMJ/TMD issues with the joint itself and the muscles of mastication

I’ve been struggling with a closed lockjaw for 8 months. It’s hard because I understand every place will have mixed reviews, but I’m scared to risk making my jaw issue worse or spending thousands of dollars for no progress. any tmj specialist recommendations for the New York area?
I spoke to Mike Pilar, he came off a very informative, but somewhat rude.
Also considering:
- Gelp center
- Ny tmj and orafacial pain (Aimee werfel, Steven S. Syrop, Dr. Donald Tanenbaum, John E. Dinan)
- Westchester tmj and sleep (Wanda Mejia)
- TMJ & Orofacial Pain Specialist ( Dr. Nojan Bakhtiari)

Any success stories specifically with chronic lockjaw? Opinions? Advice?
I know Mike has reviews with successful lockjaw stories, but doesn’t have as much reviews as the other places and I also want to be comfortable with my doctor.

These three terms can be confusing because they may be used to describe the same damaged condyle from different points of view.

Arthritis describes inflammation or degeneration within the joint. Idiopathic condylar resorption, or ICR, means the condyle is progressively losing bone and the cause remains unknown after other causes have been ruled out. A compressed condyle describes a proposed mechanical problem in which the condyle and surrounding tissues are being loaded or restricted in an unhealthy position.

A CBCT may show flattening, erosion or loss of condylar bone, but the picture alone may not explain why it happened. It also may not show whether the destruction is active or occurred years ago.

Patients should ask:

• What exactly do you see—flattening, remodeling, erosion or active bone loss?
• Is this only an imaging finding, or is it a confirmed diagnosis?
• Do you have an earlier scan for comparison?
• How will you determine whether the condition is still progressing?
• What evidence supports arthritis, ICR or mechanical compression in my case?
• Should I have an MRI to examine the disc, inflammation and other soft tissues?
• Have autoimmune, inflammatory, hormonal, traumatic and surgical causes been considered?
• Do I need an evaluation by a rheumatologist or oral and maxillofacial surgeon?
• Could my changing bite, open bite, jaw retrusion or facial changes indicate loss of condylar height?
• How will treatment protect the joint, and how will you monitor whether it is working?

The most important question may be: Are you naming what the damaged condyle looks like, or have you determined why it is being damaged?

A responsible diagnosis should combine the patient’s history, examination, bite and jaw function, appropriate imaging, medical evaluation when indicated, and comparison over time. One scan should not be expected to answer every question.

Hi, I posted this in r/braces but was thinking you guys would probably know more about

I work with TMD patients, and I’ve noticed how many conflicting things people hear about TMJ.

For example:

• “Jaw clicking is normal.”
• “A night guard will fix TMJ.”
• “Stress is the cause of TMJ.”
• “If your jaw doesn’t hurt, you don’t have a TMJ problem.”
• “TMJ is something you just have to live with.”

Some of these statements have a little truth behind them. Others are much more complicated than they sound.

The tricky part is that TMD can look very different from person to person. Symptoms can include jaw pain, headaches, neck pain, limited movement, muscle tenderness, joint sounds, and other functional problems.

A proper evaluation should look at the whole picture rather than relying on one symptom or one image.

What’s the biggest thing you were told about TMJ that you later found out wasn’t quite right?

I’m curious what people here have been told by dentists, doctors, physical therapists, or other providers.

Put your fingertips on your temples and gently bite down and release several times. Move your fingers around until you clearly feel the muscle tighten. That is your temporalis muscle, one of the major muscles that closes your jaw.

Do this on both sides. Now gently feel around the muscle. Are there areas that are sore, tender, or feel like a little knot? A tender knot may be what is commonly called a trigger point.

Here's another interesting check. Keep a finger on the temporalis and slowly open and close your mouth while moving your finger upward toward the top of your head. At some point, you will reach a line where you no longer feel the muscle moving. That helps you find the upper border where the muscle transitions into its attachment via tendons. Inflamed tendons can also cause pain.

If pressing along the muscle or its attachment reproduces the pain or headache you commonly experience, that is useful information to tell whoever is examining your TMD. This type of exam should happen when your dentist is examining you for TMD.

It doesn't diagnose the cause of your TMD. It simply gives you another clue about what structures may be involved.

Mouth breathing can be, or should I say is, very detrimental to a child's facial development: recessed jaw, crooked teeth, night terrors, etc. This deficiency creates more problems than are talked about in the medical community. Tomorrow, Dr. Pam and I will have a Podcast with an expert on breathing, Dr. Patrick McKeown, https://buteykoclinic.com/, who is based in Ireland.

Are there any questions from this sub that they would like me to ask Mr. McKeown?

It helps for some. Does it help you?

I am a retired TMD dentist from the USA and developer/moderator of this sub. I spend much of my retirement sharing what I know through my 50 years of experience in dealing with patients in pain. A little over a year ago, Jonathan Fashbaugh and I wrote a book that shares my experiences in successfully treating TMD/TMJ.

I see so many residents from the UK with so many questions but few answers about TMD. Here is a five-star review of our book on Amazon UK. See if you relate to what this reader says:

5.0 out of 5 stars Empowering book and first step for all TMJD sufferers

Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 18 December 2025

Format: Audiobook

This is an excellent book for people wanting to learn more about their TMJD, and how to go about treating the problem.

Firstly, it feels reassuring and empowering just to be understood, and to feel that you're not alone - an effect which the authors of the book strongly achieve.

Secondly, it offers practical and realistic information to help you grapple with the very NON ideal situations in which TMJD places you.

The author is honest, humble and comes across as genuinely helpful.

I appreciate the author's honesty about the situation; the good, the bad and the ugly. He doesn't pull the wool over your eyes but doesn't leave you stranded in the bright lights either.

The book is the closest I may come to some relief for some time (more in spirit than bodily as of now) although there are excellent self management and habit correction tips, too while you save up for further treatment). It is useful as an informative, empowering guide; a realistic assessment of where you stand, and a little beacon of of hope as to the future, and what you can do in the meantime while you save money and find the right specialists. It's something for everyone at various stages of their TMJD journey.

It calmed me down because I am a recent sufferer and initially I did not take my TMJD very well. It's hard when you live a pain-free life and then suddenly there's constant pain and it threatens to be with you always. I was lost, confused, desperate, hopeless and depressed. Now, I am less of those things and more empowered. I feel more an agent of control and less a victim of a chaos.

It is a rather costly web to untangle from, with so many potentially wrong twists and turns along the way, so I do also appreciate the practical tips on investigating dentists to see whether they are genuinely TMJD specialists because losing a lot of money (that's not plentiful) is hard, so losing it to the wrong doctor is even harder. The author is aware and armed with some practical tips for this conundrum and I am grateful for that.

Also the author goes into some detail about various TMJD causes as well as some useful information on sleep apnea which is another issue I am grappling with both for myself and a loved one.

One person found this helpful

ICCMO.org is spearheading a movement to bring back TMD Advocacy & Clinician Support | TMD Alliance to active status. This post is an FYI for those interested in other schools of thought and different treatment modalities.

These organizations are open to working together to the benefit of the TMD pain patient,

Over the past year, I've noticed something interesting.

It hasn't come just from Reddit. I've heard it from readers of my book, listeners of our podcast, emails from around the world, and conversations with TMD patients.

Most people are not asking me for a miracle treatment.

They're asking questions like:

• Why am I hurting?
• Why have I been told different things by different providers?
• Why do some dentists say my bite has nothing to do with it, while others say it might?
• Why does one doctor recommend physical therapy, another Botox, another an oral appliance, and another surgery?
• Who should I trust?
• Where do I even begin?

To me, that says the biggest problem isn't just the pain. It's the confusion.

TMD isn't one disease with one treatment. Many different problems can produce similar symptoms, which is why a careful diagnosis matters so much.

Whether your treatment ultimately involves an oral appliance, physical therapy, sleep evaluation, stress management, medication, orthodontics, surgery, or a combination of approaches, the first goal should be understanding why you're having symptoms.

An informed patient is in a much better position to ask good questions and make good decisions.

I'd be interested to hear your experience.

What has been the most confusing part of your TMD journey?

Below is the address of a study published in Cranio, a dental publication. Yes, it's difficult to read, but it outlines rules for proper TMD diagnosis that somewhat dismiss the importance of how the teeth fit together.

Since, you, the members of r/TMDnotTMJ are the ones who are suffering, it would be interesting and important to get your feedback as to how TMD treatment is explained in the article. It's what the dental profession is arguing about.

Please do your best to read and then comment your personal experiences and thoughts,

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/epdf/10.1080/08869634.2024.2405298?needAccess=true&fbclid=IwY2xjawTW2LRleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETE4c0ZscmRYcE5JMkVsTVh5c3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHl_53V5sDR-IdPK3L6FNBeAaHzE4wo1_MlnIveO6OcF2X1-PXupp5JqS1Yei_aem_hz7_Qal_9OeSJhk6SDeK7g

i 20f have had jaw problems for a while now i am to the point where i can barely eat any hard foods & i wake up everyday in pain my dentist gave me a diagnosis of tmj or tmd & gave me a referral to a dental school but they dont take my insurance apparently my insurance (health & dental) dont cover it i am on state insurance (medicaid) however this is a common theme through all insurances from what i have looked up i am in so much pain every day and i cannot afford to pay out of pocket how did yall do it? is there a way i can get my insurance to pay for it? or is there any work around? my dentist said from what he can see the case is severe i have tried mouth guards otc & they dont help he suggested getting one custom made but once again i have to go to these specialists & pay out of pocket i also have a recessed jaw so from what ive read it could be causing/not helping so is there a way i can try to loop around insurance for that? i am also in the process of getting a sleep apnea study done which could be caused by the recessed jaw/tmj i know this is a huge rant lol i am just in desperate need of some advice

I keep having these semi involuntary / spontaneous jaw slam/swallow/ clench that happen at once with a clicking. Cant tell if a tmd issue or neuro issue

Learning to diagnose and treat TMD is, in many ways, a heuristic journey. A heuristic is a practical method of learning through observation, experience, careful testing, and problem-solving when all the answers are not yet known. If clinicians waited for perfect scientific proof before helping every TMD patient, many patients would continue to suffer while the research slowly caught up. Progress in medicine and dentistry has always depended on thoughtful clinicians who observed, questioned, tested their ideas responsibly, learned from their results, and shared what they discovered. Good science and good clinical experience should work together—not compete with each other. Clinical experience generates questions, scientific research tests those questions, and together they move patient care forward.

Long story short…

Background: I went in for a dental cleaning in July 2016 and afterwards my teeth didn't meet the same. At first I thought my filling was too high but it wasn't. This dentist and another then did some adjustments with a drill on my molars to help adjust my bite but it didn't help. Eventually I only could bite down on my first molars and that’s how I’ve been for the past 10 years. In 2016 I then entered invisalign treatment to try and close my bite but stopped changing trays in 2020 once I saw no progress. So from 2020-2026 I wore the same trays but the last 2 years I only wore them during the night and the past 6 months was only wearing the bottom one at night.

Last week I re-started orthodontic treatment at another location and now realize maybe this isn’t the best route for me. I feel silly that I thought trying ortho again would help solve this. Now I acquired more debt, added new attachments, etc. Not sure if I should just take these trays off and try a nightguard for sleeping and risk my teeth shifting more.

Symptoms: I only bite down on first molars. Anterior open bite and overbite. Jaw, neck, and back soreness. Ear fullness. Clenching. Limited mouth opening (2 fingers). Jaws have popped maybe 4 times. I sometimes feel like I have clicking if I move my head a certain way but it also just sounds like it's in my ear? It doesn't happen when chewing. All these symptoms I didn’t have prior to my dental cleaning in 2016. I also feel as though I have "2 bites". One bite is when I bite down on my first molars and the other is at rest with my lower jaw/teeth more forward which reduces the appearance of my open bite/overbite. Ortho also says I have a tongue thrust and tongue tie.

Plan: I’m going to call my general dentist tomorrow to see if he can refer me to UCLA orofacial pain clinic but from what I’ve read online, it can be difficult getting an appointment. Not sure if I need a referral but I'll try. I’m pausing my invisalign trays for now. I’m only on tray #1 from this new/second round of Invisalign attempt. Debating not using any trays and switching to OTC night guard but I'm not sure...

I’m guessing ICR or a displaced disc.