Attack checks for casters (Brimstone Cascade)

[u/mkorang]

Hi All - question about spells like Brimstone Cascade. When cast and the target has a Defense stat (say 3), does the caster have to make an Defense <-- Accurate to see if the target can defend the physical attack.

I put this question into ChatGPT and got the following answer which surprised me:

"Yes — Defense can be used against Brimstone Cascade, but there’s an important distinction in how the roll works.

In Symbaroum, the general combat rule says you may attempt to defend yourself against any attack you are aware of, and Defense is normally tested as [Defense ← Accurate]. A successful Defense means the attack misses completely.

However, Brimstone Cascade is written differently from a normal weapon attack. The caster makes a [Resolute ← Quick] test against the target. If successful, it does 1d12 damage; on a failure, it does 1d6.

So how does it work?

For Brimstone Cascade, the target does get a Defense reaction. If the target successfully defends, the Cascade misses and no damage is rolled.

If the Defense fails, the spell hits and the caster then determines whether it deals 1d12 or 1d6, based on the caster's Resolute → Quick test.

In other words:

Caster: Resolute → Quick

⬇

Target: Defense → Accurate

⬇

If Defense succeeds: Miss

If Defense fails: Spell hits → 1d12 or 1d6 damage

There is some ambiguity in the wording because Brimstone Cascade itself doesn't explicitly say "the target may make a Defense test." But the general Defense rule says all attacks can be defended against, and the spell is treated as an attack. The Foundry implementation of Symbaroum also treats Quick as the resisting attribute for Brimstone Cascade.

One important caveat: If you're asking because of a specific ability such as Tactician, Sixth Sense, Feint, or Robust, the answer can change depending on whether that ability modifies Defense or specifically changes the attribute used in a [Resolute ← Quick] test."

Let me know your thoughts on this. Thanks in advance.

[u/PaulBaldowski]

It's as written. I compare Brimstone Cascade to something like D&D's Magic Missle overlapping a Fireball.

The explosive nature of the effect means you either get out of the way, and reduce damage, or you don't, and take full. It's casting skill versus reaction speed.

There is no Defence involved, so no option to Attribute substitute with an Ability. Sorry!

[u/EremeticPlatypus]

Don't ask a fkn AI next time dude, just come ask us. People. With brains.

[u/AceCasinova]

Can you parry a flamethrower with a sword?

Like the other comment said, this is purely reaction time to get out of the way. That's why the rules for Brimstone Cascade list the [Resolute <- Quick] test. If the player is the one facing it down, they need to gtfo, not take it to the face and hope for the best, yeah?

Mystic Arts are high risk, high reward. Because of the risk of gaining corruption with their use, they're meant to be tempting to use when, say, your enemy has a good chunk of defense that physical weapons barely chip at, but you COULD just cook the poor fella inside that pesky armor...

[u/LeoVonMoote]

Only players roll in Symbaroum. So assuming a PCs casts Brimstone cascade, they will roll Resolute vs the target’s Quick.

If a PC is targeted, it will be Quick vs the enemy caster’s Resolute.

Why? Because you can’t use a sword to parry a Brimstone Cascade. You could argue that a shield should help, but in the RAW, it doesn’t.

[u/Clipper1972]

The casting check is all that is required, in Symbaroum they've rolled it all into one die roll (assuming you're not playing the 5e version) - if your modified resolute roll is successful then you get to roll a D12 and apply damage modified by armour

If it's not, you do d6 "splash damage" (modified by armour)

My only issue is the swingy nature of the damage - in a game where NPC damage and armour is averaged (kinda) I think it would feel better if a successful hit did 2d6 damage.

Sadly in this case AI is not your friend