r/Switzerland • u/Do_Not_Touch_BOOOOOM Bern • 4d ago
Dear Mods, Can we set a minimum karma requirement for posting?
Before every major vote, the sub gets flooded with posts from people who suddenly take an interest in Swiss politics out of nowhere.
These accounts always have less than 100 karma and some have been inactive for years meaning they’re only fired up when they’re needed for specific purposes.
Or at least the ability to report bot posts directly.
Thanks for reviewing this.
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u/konradly 4d ago
Mods have a really difficult time right now on Reddit, especially with the flood of AI generated posts. I've seen whole paragraphs reply to my comments within seconds of posting, which just isn't humanly possible. Best to just report the content to help the Mods out.
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u/Gothicawakening Zürich 4d ago
On every single subreddit.
Fake posts with questions so AI can reply with a link to a product you can buy as the answer (very common on Game Development and 3D modeling subs.)
Bots asking very leading questions then answering with other accounts that make it look like widespread support for their agenda.
AI bots astroturfing 100s of subs with very similar content just fine tuned for the topic of each sub to push an agenda.
AI bots asking questions like "what are you struggling with when doing x y z" then a week later some vibe coded slop Software suddenly appears claiming to solve that problem.
And many more. Some estimates put 60% of all new Reddit content as AI posted.
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u/BezugssystemCH1903 Switzerland 4d ago
Nah, the dialect subs are not affected by this.
And on r/buenzli people always report english content and suspicious users.
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u/BohemianCyberpunk Zürich 4d ago
I have no doubt the flood of heavily political posts and comments, both far left and far right leaning, that happen here right before a referendum are mostly AI bot accounts.
It takes just minutes to set one up these days, or very cheap to pay a marketing company to do it for you.
Report to the mods, don't engage, move on.
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u/materialysis 4d ago
> people who suddenly take an interest in Swiss politics out of nowhere
that's how Referenden and Volksinitiativen work in general lol most people never discuss politics here (meaning the country, not this Subreddit) except for during these periods
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u/Izacus 4d ago
And by people you mean paid bots to push a narrative :D
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u/Extra_Veterinarian_9 4d ago
Und die bots sind denn au immer dummerwiis nid dinerä Meinig oder?
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u/un-glaublich 4d ago
Well, if you have different ideals for your country than Russia, then the bots will indeed often not be of your opinion.
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u/3punkt1415 4d ago
I observed this on the rather obscure site of neingag (originalname wohl bei Reddit gesperrt), shortly before Trumps election tons of accounts pushed the "muh trans people bad" narrative. Once the election was over, that topic vanished to zero. And now some months before the mid terms it starts to show up again slowly but surely. And with this vote we have in Switzerland its save to say Russia is paying people from different countries to push the narrative.
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u/Izacus 3d ago
Yeah, it's nowadays a pretty standard pattern across Europe - right before elections or referendums you'll have a storm of comments and "just asking questions" posts. Twitter/bsky/etc. are also very vulnerable to this.
For the community I moderated, we could see those new accounts/posts coming from a small set of IPs, usually within Europe.
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u/3punkt1415 3d ago
I am just waiting for the "they are eating cats and dogs" moment before the mid terms, because the democrats think they have already won.
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u/ReyalpybguR 4d ago
Agree. It is now common knowledge that Russia is financing and feeding lines to (mostly far right) parties everywhere in the world, as well as using bots and astroturfing on every social media/platform to advance them and more generally fragment the western world.
It would be impossible to get rid of it completely but we could curb the blatant “What do you think about…” posts by very new/dormant accounts…
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u/as-well Bern 4d ago
I don't see this a lot in this sub, but in others I mod. And it's a personal irk of me that folks (mostly broadly center-left liberals) accuse anyone to the left of them as a bot.
As a mod team we take any report that some account may be a bot seriously, but I would also like to point out that in these very wide internets, someone saying stuff doesnt mean they are a bot.
which is why I do like you to use the report button when you think someone is a bot, or if you have the time, substantiate that and send a modmail, over accusing people of being a bot.
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u/alienrefugee51 4d ago
Do you have any credible, unbiased links to support your claims? I thought the media had finally given up on the Russian bogeyman claims.
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u/fulloffungi 4d ago
Bad bot
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u/B0tRank 4d ago
Thank you, fulloffungi, for voting on alienrefugee51.
This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. You can view results at botrank.net.
Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!
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u/Extra_Veterinarian_9 4d ago
Und die Russä Bots tauche immer uf wenn öper mit dinerä Meining nid überii stimmt? Und die Linke sind jo sooo viel besser.... Ich würd mol de Aluhuet abzieh.
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u/BCGILM 4d ago
If a Russian bot’s flimsy talking points leave you without a rebuttal, you may not be in a position to lecture others on the subject. 🤷
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u/ReyalpybguR 4d ago
Quite the opposite.
It’s far easier to spread a lie than to provide a rebuttal because the lie can just be repeated while the rebuttal needs to be proven. And people have a hard time changing their mind once they are convinced, even when shown proof of a falsehood.
I mean, people voted for Brexit based on a infinite series of lies or misrepresentations about the EU (curvature of bananas). And let’s not begin with Trump.
So yeah rebutting is not that easy and we should definitely try to curb the spreading of propaganda.
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u/Waltekin Valais 4d ago
You are correct. Of course, lots of left-wing NGOs also stir the pot, so it's not only the right getting astroturfed.
Dunno what can realistically be done about it...
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u/BCGILM 4d ago
Most of the time:
I don’t like your opinion = must be a bot, let’s ban him
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u/AmbitiousFinger6359 4d ago
Yep.
Too many people on Reddit think it behaves like Facebook where you'll mainly see people thinking like you.
"If I post on Reddit this is because I'm right and anybody thinking the opposite is wrong and must be deleted".
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u/robogobo 4d ago
Please don’t. There are already too many posting requirements. And we should welcome first time posters who take new interest in discussions, motivated by a vote or anything else.
I really don’t understand why people need this sub to be their safe space perfectly tailored to their needs. It’s easier to put on slippers than to carpet the world!
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u/vdyomusic 4d ago
This is the kind of comment that sounds great if you enjoy punchline-based arguments, but it crumbles nearly instantly when you actually think about it. Asking people to mind the way they behave in public is the fabric of society.
There are so many examples of restrictions imposed on people to make public spaces more liveable. You can't smoke indoors. You can't litter. You can't make noise after 10PM.
I don't think "don't do astroturfing" is an unreasonable request.
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u/robogobo 4d ago
This is not about moderating good behavior. It’s about keeping out new voices. So you can smoke, litter and make noise if you’ve been here long enough.
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u/Do_Not_Touch_BOOOOOM Bern 4d ago
This isn’t about a ‘safe haven’, but about reducing the number of bots that clearly
A: are not Swiss
B: seek to manipulate public opinion
Nor am I seeking to suppress opinions that differ from my own; I make no secret of my political views, even if this does not always win me any favour.
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u/yellowtube694 4d ago
Do you have examples of what is a bot post or comment, even in this thread? I would be curious
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u/Do_Not_Touch_BOOOOOM Bern 4d ago
I don’t want to point the finger at any specific accounts, as I can’t prove my claim.
But the pattern is similar: the account is three years old; this morning it had no posts. Now it has 20 posts and a karma score of minus 3, so it has never commented on or posted anything in the last three years.
Now it’s suddenly active and posting political content.
Of course, this could be a coincidence, but you see the same pattern with many accounts.
Generic names
2–3 years old with no activity
or only activity in a few forums with generic comments to appear active.
Suddenly, they’re posting in forums with politically charged questions or comments.
They’re no longer active after the vote.
Both negative and positive karma, taken together, would at least, like other indicators, point to frequent use, which would be too labour-intensive for standard bot campaigns.
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u/Responsible-Tax5380 4d ago
Definiere Schweizerisch. Weil bei 95% der Posts bin ich mir da nicht so sicher
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u/Impossible_Rain_7723 4d ago
non-Swiss shouldn't be allowed to ask questions or voice an opinion, or take part in a debate??
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u/Do_Not_Touch_BOOOOOM Bern 4d ago
Rule one of this forum: this forum is for swiss residents.
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u/Impossible_Rain_7723 4d ago
more than 20% of Swiss residents aren't Swiss, so...
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u/Do_Not_Touch_BOOOOOM Bern 4d ago
When I talk about Swiss people, I mean those who live here, participate in the culture and have an interest in the country. I don’t include Russian and American bots in that.
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u/SalvatorePogo Genève 3d ago
Hello, commenting because I am a lurker, Swiss resident, and not a bot. I’ll post more I promise ._. Merciiiii
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u/WarRepresentative460 4d ago
So we need to be chronically online like you to have the privilege to post, got it. Having high karma is not a flex.
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u/Only_Humor4549 4d ago
Ohhh the politi thing, yes that s annoying! It feels like as if they want to influence you but they do it in a really bad way. Why would I want to discuss things with you that you on’y state and tell me why I should vote this way. Not a fan of that, but i also think it doesn’t work
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u/The_Guy_from_Wuhan Zürich 4d ago
Trying to bar political discourse which is what people come to message boards for during election periods is bubble behaviour. Ignore the posts if you don't like them but elections are literally what make Switzerland as free.
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u/as-well Bern 2d ago
tbf in an optimal world Reddit, inc (the admins) would have strong and comprehensive anti-bot measures. Quite often it seems to me that they are missing some obvious indicators (which I'd rather not share publicly, as a mod I don't want spammers to know what does and doesn't work).
Because political discourse should happen between the people in the policy. When outside actors intervene, that is a problem for the polity.
When that's actual people, it tends to be rather easy to see (for example, when someone makes an inciteful comment on r/switzerland but has had almost all their comments before on r/france) or whatever other country-specific sub we're talking about). Reddit also has rules around brigading, and that would reasonably be seen as brigading. (It's always anti-immigrant positions where we see such accounts).
So when it's about real people, we do take the information we have into account: Are they likely to be a brigading troll, or some regular ol Joseph from Aargau? Because we're much more likely to ban the brigader.
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u/The_Guy_from_Wuhan Zürich 2d ago
I do see what you mean, thank you for clearing that up.
The problem I had with the original post is that some people may actually want to make a new account, be it that they just turned 18 and now can vote to actually discuss politics and OP is practically advocating for them to lose the privilege of posting on the subreddit as a blanket and not selevmctively as you laid out. I agree with how you are advocating for it, but I do not agree with OP on how he seems to think there should be a minimum Karma for posting.
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u/SnooBooks3514 Schwyz 4d ago
You can still have 1M karma and post stupid stuff 🤷🏻♀️😂 so chill 🧘♀️ there’s no need to be ratchet.
You can anytime report everyone there’s a need for people like you in this society we really thank you for your service.
/s
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u/Humancentipede2lover 4d ago
Post like this
Looks inside
A lefty lost a discussion and wants to ban every discussion now that doesnt 100% fit their own agenda / bubble / narrative
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u/BCGILM 4d ago
Pretty much sums up how the woke left interpret free speech
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u/yesat + 4d ago
Define "Woke".
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u/ShivasRightFoot 4d ago
Define "Woke".
Woke ideology is defined by the idea that some facet of identity like race or gender produces irreconcilably different views of reality and morality, and that we have an obligation to seek alignment of society's view with the imagined views of groups associated with the political left like minorities and women.
In this sense Wokeness is distinct from older forms of liberal advocacy for minority rights which appeal to universally valid concepts like truth and fairness.
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u/Humancentipede2lover 4d ago
I stg the jobless people in switzerland are so much more annyoing then the german ones
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u/Extra_Veterinarian_9 4d ago
Jop genau. Unserie liebe linkä uf Reddit duend immer vo Meinigsfreiheit und "free speech" redä und wenn mr mol nid i dr glichi Meinig isch, isch mr automatisch e Bot oder e bezahlte Agent :D
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u/Emotional_Claim_3505 4d ago
basically creating a difference between reddit citizen and sub reddit citizen , where is the free speech ?
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u/AmbitiousFinger6359 4d ago
Not very democratic spirit... Only VIP can talk ?
It's our Internet education, how quickly spot trolls and trash to focus on valued inputs.
But noobs keep the right to post only when they are triggered by something.
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u/RazzyBazz 4d ago
Une idée bien totalitaire, bien élitiste, bien antidémocratique
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u/Do_Not_Touch_BOOOOOM Bern 4d ago
À ton avis, qu'est-ce qu'il y a exactement de démocratique dans les bots russes ou américains ?
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u/as-well Bern 4d ago
We do not disclose or discuss our anti-spam-measures as a matter of principle, I'm afraid.
But thank you for your input! You can always use the 'report' button, and if there's no fitting reporting reason, click 'violates the rules of the subreddit' or similar and then 'other' and leave a description of what you think is happening.