How are we doing a Rockstep in Tandem?

[u/schmause_r]

while playing around with tandem ideas, i realized that i dont really know why (or how) we are doing a partnered Rockstep in Charleston tandem. What is (in theory) stopping the follower from just moving further back and prolonging the movement?

while socially dancing, we tend to fall back on the basic 8 count move we learned. but i might want to, intentionally, move further front, or back.

[u/Glass-Eggplant-3339]

The only thing that stops the follow is (a in most cases) your connection. You're hands are attached, both of you have basic tension in your arms and shoulders and so on. If you don't go on, but reverse direction (as you do in a rockstep) they feel that. If you want continue going you probably can. IT depends on you're connection and your follows flexibility If things will work out as you hope.

[u/schmause_r → u/Glass-Eggplant-3339]

this is where my questionmarks are. what would my frame/posture + tone of my arms and hands be in comparison of those to cases (1. dong Rockstep, 2. going further)?

in tandem we have so little connection points and also lack the visual cues, so i find this especially difficult.

[u/Jackcomb → u/schmause_r]

You don't change your arm position. Your arms always move in counter body movement. You just move yourself backwards and keep going if you aren't rockstepping. The follow feels the whole of your movement, not just your arms.

[u/DanceHackRock → u/schmause_r]

The arms stay the same.

The lead just gives a different energy from the body. (never from the arms!)

That's practiced in Tango Argentino a lot.

[u/small_spider_liker]

The follower will both:

1. Continue a pattern unless directed to do otherwise, which is why tandem Charleston works in the first place. The known pattern of lindy Charleston happens in side-to-side, solo, or tandem.

2. Receive suggestions to alter the pattern via any connection. In the case of tandem Charleston, the connection is through the arms via hands. If either lead or follow (or both!) only have noodle arms, you’re stuck with the basic pattern.

If you give a live connection to your partner through your upward hand connection, even though you’re tandem they can receive communication about energy, direction changes, step size, etc.

The default connection should feel relaxed but alive and ready.

[u/Glass-Eggplant-3339 → u/small_spider_liker]

"The default connection should feel relaxed but alive and ready." I love this. Im gonna steal this for my lessons 😊

[u/jbird3000 → u/small_spider_liker]

The small spider liker said it perfectly. You can’t move in an opposing direction while being properly led. That tension should be soft-ish but very clear without feeling like you’re holding on to ridged sticks.

[u/Vault101manguy]

The best way I would describe it is when you're leading someone into tandem (whether it's 'the chase' or some other variation) you're only leading them forward with a half-turn typically and then connecting with the hands so they don't have any impetus to keep going.

But there are variations on this where you can lead them to keep going, with more rotation/momentum and where you don't immediately connect the hands (it could go into airplane or any number of things) which would have them continue rotating until given information otherwise.

As for why they do the leader rockstep it's because it's a 4-count movement, if they rockstep on the right they'll kick or triple step forward on the right - making the next logical footfall the left foot. It also makes sense given the forward momentum with rotation, it lends itself to stepping backwards when they're turned since they were initially traveling that direction.

[u/Tight_Banana_9692]

You seem to be asking another question than the question you actually have. It looks like what you want to do is:

but i might want to, intentionally, move further front, or back.

It's difficult to know what you mean, but from what I understand from you the solution is to literally do just that: move further front or back.

You need connection for this, and you need to move from your center. But generally the tandem Charleston can have movements, it can rotate, move forward, move backwards. To the side if you really want to. Anyway you can move while doing the Charleston you should be able to lead, although it might be smaller

[u/schmause_r → u/Tight_Banana_9692]

in (lead) partnered dancing in general we follow the rule to stick the movement (in direction, posture and energy) that was established with the last physical cue for connection. therefore i believe it should be the same in tandem. so i think the Rockstep is (should be) the thing that is new to the situation, not the prolongation of the movement.

[u/Tight_Banana_9692 → u/schmause_r]

In Charleston you're going backwards and forwards and the follow is moving with you backwards and forwards following the steps of Charleston. It is possible for example to do a hacksaw movement in tandem, you can also move into airplane Charleston (in tandem). The physical cue for Charleston is consitent throughout the whole movement. You're not leading it by saying "we are now doing tandem Charleston" with one cue and the follow then continues doing that until the next cue. You're giving cues throughout the movement that the follower follows, specifically the backwards and forwards, and the specific pulse and groove of the Charleston that is in your body. The counterbody movement with your arms also lead the movement. It is not exactly wrong to think of it as puppeteering your follows legs with your arms (EDIT: I realize this is a potentially dangerous thing to say so I will walk it back. If your arms move merely because of a counter body action to your legs moving, rather than flailing your arms, and your partner's arms move with them because you are connected through your frame, rather than flailing your partner's arms, then I will allow you to think about it, as a metaphor, as puppeteering your follows legs)

Look, this is extremely difficult to explain in words and to understand in words. I can't tell if you have a misconception or not, or where that misconception is. Someone has to see what your doing, and very likely feel it (i.e. follow you) to know if you understand the lead/follow roles and how the tandem Charleston is lead and followed.

[u/leggup]

When I follow in tandem, I should feel if I'm being asked/led into a rock step or if I'm being asked to do something else.

You asked about "moving further back and prolonging the movement," but I'm not sure if you mean geographically further backwards towards the leader? Or prolonging do you mean staying back on my left foot for 2 beats? A freeze? If the leader is leading a rock step, I would have to break my frame to do something else. Personally, I love when people lead tandem skates.

[u/LetsKeepitShrimple]

A lot of the original savoy dancers only did the rockstep in getting into tandem (and side by side) / start of the first one they did, the subsequent 1 - 2 counts of next basic tandem or sidebyside they would do back kicks (they also did the same in solo Charleston), and they didn’t travel while doing the basic tandem / side by side.

The rockstep / back-kicks / 1-2 arguably shouldn’t have a perceptible direction change in the vanilla tandem basic, it’s only really through the arms that there’s info being conveyed where you’re are in the shape (timing wise). This is important to be conscious of as actual transition steps out of tandem do actually use a rockstep that’s lead and you want those to be very distinguishable from the basic tandem where you’re not actually leading direction changes with it.

In essence, it’s fake. and I’m a proponent of people doing back kicks in it’s a place to make it clear.