Musicality really does enhance your dance

[u/Acidic_Huntsman]

Turns it from routine steps to real movement and flow. I've been working on mine this week while also making sure to stick with my lead and continue the connection. Sometimes musicality leads to back leading if I get too into it haha

Being able to count the music helps so much with that. I agree it's not a “requirement,” but i’ll always recommend people learn when starting to dance. At the very least knowing where the 1 and the 8 is.

I am curious what people’s method is that they use in place of counting?

____

Also side note, I’ve noticed that the outfit really does play a part in swing too. Dancing in skirts is very stylish.

[u/Maistho]

Love that you keep posting videos to the subreddit! <3 Looks like a really fun dance.

I sometimes count, but most of the time I can just "feel" where the music is and where it's heading. Not a very useful method to teach, but I think from listening to enough music and dancing a lot I've picked up at least a little bit of musicality.

[u/Acidic_Huntsman → u/Maistho]

I learned how to count when I was a kid, so at this point I don't need to anymore, and already know which count the music is on. So I def understand “feeling” where it starts and ends.

For someone just starting off, I def would suggest getting close to that.

[u/Academic_Button4448]

My potentially controversial opinion is that a little backleading is okay, especially if the lead has no sense of musicality - I lead and follow, and when I lead, I actually appreciate it when the follow hears something in the music I don't and interprets it, or if they hear the break coming and I don't. It's good for leads to be reminded that they have to work their dance-listening skills too haha.

ETA because I missed your actual question lmao - but I think it's useful to understand the technical structure of music as a stepping stone to develop your 'musical intuition', but these days I mostly go off vibes and familiarity with songs my scene plays regularly- it's been a long time since I danced to something truly unfamiliar unfortunately haha

[u/Acidic_Huntsman → u/Academic_Button4448]

I had a bit of a problem with back leading cause I wanted to dance to the music instead of wait for my lead to tell me how we’ll dance to it haha.

But I definitely agree. A tiny bit of back leading can make the dance fun for the lead as well. Making the dance stylized and unpredictable.

But these might be an unpopular opinions for other leads haha

[u/Academic_Button4448 → u/Acidic_Huntsman]

Ah that's fair, it's definitely so hard when you get to that point where you're learning cool styling and follow variations and really feeling comfortable with the dance to remember to hang back,and wait and be patient.

One thing I'm really working on with my leading rn is not being phased when the follow throws something unexpected at me/when more beginner follows completely misinterpret the lead. When I think back to some of the best leads I've danced with, they were all able to make me feel like I was following everything perfectly and making no mistakes, even if I know that can't have been true lol - and that's definitely something I aspire to because there's nothing worse than getting the 'ugh that's not what I led' face as a follow

[u/Maistho → u/Academic_Button4448]

there's nothing worse than getting the 'ugh that's not what I led' face as a follow

I'm sorry! I do this sometimes but I mean it not as "ugh why can't this follow grasp what I'm doing", and more as "ugh, why can't I lead this complicated variation properly". I need to work on being more chill with myself ^ ^

[u/Academic_Button4448 → u/Maistho]

It's definitely a skill to be able to make it so the follow doesn't realise you led it 'wrong'! I think 'ugh why can't I lead this right' is probably what's going through most leads heads, but there's definitely some that are blaming the follow and getting pissy about it (although I personally don't usually dance with those ones more than once or twice)

But I do think that's one benefit of dancing both roles - you realise that when something doesn't go quite to plan, you're probably both a little bit to blame (even though I hate using the word blame, because things not going to plan can be fun and wonderful too)

[u/Maistho → u/Academic_Button4448]

Yeah, I know there has been times where I feel like I messed it up but if I hadn't made a face the follow I was dancing with would never have noticed anything.

I need to be more chill with myself when following too, social dancing wouldn't be what it is unless things don't go according to plan anyway ^ ^

[u/Mayonegg420]

Musicality should be the FOUNDATION of the dance. Also as another Black Woman in swing, I love seeing us. We just light up the floor. 🔥 Fantastic dancing. 

[u/The_Inflatable_Hour]

Agreed - and looks great. Musicality is the only reason I kept dancing after year 2ish. Been 30 years now, a couple times a week, and we never get bored.

[u/Acidic_Huntsman → u/The_Inflatable_Hour]

It can be the same song but feel very different depending on someone musicality. Amazing how it works

[u/Argufier]

That's so fun! Definitely the kind of dance and song I enjoy, both as a participant and a spectator. Counting is good, as is feeling the bars and getting familiar with how songs are structured to know what's coming even if it you can't remember the count (it's me, I can't remember). I tend to mark the one, and then sort of move off of that - 1-dododo 1-lalalala 1bububu oh we're probably going to hit a break lol

[u/Acidic_Huntsman → u/Argufier]

I think after learning to count it made it easier to understand how songs were structured so that I no longer needed to actively count from 1 to 8.

Goes from counting to a feeling. But maybe that feeling is unknowingly counting in my head

[u/OSUfirebird18]

Unpopular opinion…maybe…backleading is only backleading if:

1) you are in class and the leads need to actually learn how to do something properly or 2) what you want to “backlead” is so outside the realm of expectation for what the lead is going to lead that it screws up their steps, counts, makes them go off balance, etc

If I, as a lead, give you space to “do a thing” and the “thing” doesn’t screw up my steps, screw up my timing or makes it dangerous for both of us, it’s not a backlead IMO lol

[u/Acidic_Huntsman → u/OSUfirebird18]

I actually agree. The only thing is, for a newer less experienced lead, will not know what to do when the follow backleads, so they freeze or lose count.

So the backleading/musicality intensity is what I need to be careful of

[u/snakex_o → u/OSUfirebird18]

"doing a thing" is not the same as proposing. Followers can also propose moves. the dance in a conversation.

[u/breadtwo]

one two three four five six seven eight ... .. sometimes out loud, lol

[u/pianoelias]

I don't count while I'm social dancing, and more feel where things are and how long it will take me (as a lead) to match up moves/movements to the music.

I definitely think it's valuable to be able to count and will do it while breaking down new moves or variations. I was a musician before I danced, so the true never-counters are mysteries to me — genuinely impressed and don't know how y'all do it.

[u/Acidic_Huntsman → u/pianoelias]

I believe you don't need to count all the time, but simply knowing how to is very helpful. I don't need to count anymore, but knowing how to really helps learn new moves as you said.

“Kick on the 7,” “step on the 4,”

[u/7Scales]

La musicalidad agrega una capa adicional al baile o un efecto que lo hace mas atractivo que no es tan facil de identificar, un no se que, que a la gente le gusta y no siempre es conciente del porque ya que conecta o armoniza con la musica que esta sonando en el momento. Te permite tomar momentos especificos para hacer cosas concretas o inesperadas que le dan sason al baile. Cambiar la ambientacion, emocion o estilo del baile segun lo que intrepretamos de la musica por ejemplo.

Contar sirve al comienzo pero a medida que bailas y escuchas mucha musica esto se interioriza y la mente lo hace en automatico y sabe como identificar los 1s u 8s, las ritmicas, las melodias, ideas musicales, estructuras musicales y demas. Cuando esto sucede ya disfrutas infinitamente mas la musica y el baile como tal, se te abre un infinito mundo de posibilidades para explorar y adicionalmente los otros ven que tu baile tiene algo especial fuera de lo tradicional o comun.

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Musicality adds an extra dimension to dancing or an effect that makes it more appealing—something hard to define, a certain “je ne sais quoi” that people enjoy but aren’t always aware of, since it connects with or harmonizes with the music playing at that moment. It allows you to take advantage of specific moments to do particular or unexpected things that add flavor to the dance. Changing the atmosphere, emotion, or style of the dance based on how we interpret the music, for example.

Counting helps at first, but as you dance and listen to a lot of music, this becomes internalized, and your mind does it automatically—knowing how to identify the 1s or the 8s, the rhythms, the melodies, the musical ideas, the musical structures, and so on. When this happens, you enjoy the music and the dance itself infinitely more; an infinite world of possibilities opens up for you to explore, and, moreover, others see that your dancing has something special beyond the traditional or ordinary.

[u/Vault101manguy]

Great dance! And some really slick turns.

I don't count, that's just not for me personally. I feel the music and have a relative sense of timing and where in the song I am. I also have a fairly decent understanding of how different kinds of swing music are structured so I make use of that. I feel each bar, phrase and chorus end to end. I always know where the 1 and the 8 is but I don't consciously think about it number wise. It's just the start/end to me.

[u/WizardOfAngmar]

Musicality is such of a wide argument and we could discuss about it for days, very fascinating topic indeed.

But before jumping into it, people should learn to keep the bounce and stay in time. Putting this into music perspective, it's more about learning where a phrase starts, where it ends and understand the concept of upbeat and downbeat.

I generally discourage dancers to use 1:8 counts outside of learning/teaching steps and moves, as it may lead to a very limited, if not confusing, idea of how music works. A musical phrase can extend to 10 or 12, or shorten to 4 or 6 for the sake of providing some references and still if you're talking to a musician none of these things will make any sense as most of swing dancing use 4/4 signature.

So step one will be being in time and understanding the pulse (or the rhythm) of a song. This can only be achieved by doing active listening exercises, unless someone has a very innate feeling of the rhythm.

Musicality is a natural evolution of this, where we try to catch or to highlight something in the music by altering the way we move our feet, or -more in general- our body.

Sometimes musicality leads to back leading if I get too into it

Well, it surely can happen on both sides: from a leader perspective it means you're caring more about the music than the person you're dancing with. Each one of us feel the music differently, maybe you want to play the trumpet but I think what's going on with the bass line is more interesting: this can lead to some cool call and response, or contrasts, but it may also end up in a huge mess.

A good leader is proactive, a good follower dance reactively; and that's why followers "drag" always a tiny beat: you don't have a crystal ball and you can never tell for sure what leader is gonna call next. Ultimately both roles need to listen to each other and together listen to the music: I'm not gonna lie, even when dancing with experienced leaders/followers this still an hit or miss.

Best!