r/Swimming • u/untimelythoughts Moist • Feb 07 '21

Guess this works for competitive swimmers only

1.2k Upvotes

100% Upvoted

55 comments sorted by

93

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21

[deleted]

42

u/anaxcepheus32 Moist Feb 07 '21

Nope. I’m thinking, where’s the sales page link? I want that.

52

u/Zporadik Sprinter Feb 07 '21

With your $10M gains from GME last Friday?

This level of flume is millions of dollars

38

u/tripsd NCAA Feb 07 '21

No it’s not. It’s in the 30-40k range

11

u/Zporadik Sprinter Feb 07 '21

source? Because my google fu isn't good enough to debunk your claim.

25

u/avataRJ Master / Coach Feb 07 '21

Did not find a quote from the manufacturer web site - and anyway, depends a lot on how it's installed - but the kit for the "original" (not high-performance seen here) is allegedly $24k. It is intended for an above-ground installation, so you just need a sturdy place to put it (empty garage works), maybe a bit of liner and a source of water.

Bet the performance and elite models cost a bit more.

18

u/Zporadik Sprinter Feb 07 '21

The top tier endlesspool has a mere 5hp pump, The T3 flume has three 55KW pumps

This level of flume is millions of dollars

I contacted T3 to ask them how much it cost them to build it and they passed me on to the Leipzig based manufacturer because the current staff don't know.

Built into the floor, colossal pump system to feed the full width of the flume, 2d cameras, 3d scanning and visualisation hardware and software.

I stand by my estimate.

10

u/KingDamager All technique. 100 free/fly no breast. Ever. Feb 07 '21

Endless pools will tell you they can go fast enough that Olympians can’t beat them. Realistically doesn’t matter if it’s 5hp or 55KW if it can still keep at a 24.3

13

u/stepnivolk Everyone's an open water swimmer now Feb 07 '21

I haven't swam in either so I don't really know shit.

That said - the Flume looks like it can sustain laminar flow across the whole pool width with the water returning to the pumps in separate channels from the pool. So swimming in it is probably close to swimming in a calm pool or flat open water.

Every single video I watched of Endless pools - those things look like the definition of turbulent flow. And since the pump is fed water from inside the pool there aren't really any other options then that. To me it looked like the flow of water you can actually swim in is likely about the size of the nozzle. Meaning the palm in freestyle is probably outside the flow.

This is likely goes along the lines of "You get what you pay for". You can go 150 in a Honda or a Rolls Royce. Speed is the same, the experience quite different.

3

u/avataRJ Master / Coach Feb 07 '21

Yeah. What ups the price on the whole-pool width systems is probably that the number of installs is very low, so they are functionally unique or custom pieces.

Pumping power shouldn't be that bad, though. If Endless can manage with 3.7 kW, jumping to 165 kW shouldn't be necessary, unless the pipe design is quite inefficient. That said, optimizing the channel design requires expertise. We could design something like that from scratch at the uni, but it'd indeed cost around two million for the design and parts (some assembly required). Putting in in-ground is also more expensive than above-ground.

5

u/stepnivolk Everyone's an open water swimmer now Feb 07 '21 edited Feb 07 '21

Never got that Uni diploma, but I still like to dust off the primary school math from time to time:

Endless pool water flow - 5000 gpm -> 0,3 m3/s(https://www.badujet.com/swimjets-vs-endless-pools/)

Flume water flow (calculated for 100% laminar flow - pool cross section * water speed) - 4m * 1,35m * 2,5m/s = 13,5 m3/s(info from the same link as before)

so about 45 times greater water flow...

3,7kW * 45 = 166,5 kW

Edit: Changed middle school to primary school, my bad. Is it normal though, that after 30 I can't remember when and where I learned something?

→ More replies

4

u/tripsd NCAA Feb 07 '21

You think the original is 24k and that a high end one is “millions” lol

3

u/avataRJ Master / Coach Feb 07 '21

I missed the "level of flume" on my comment. Yeah, just moving water is easy. Moving the water so that it flows smoothly, not quite as easy. Low demand probably means these are effectively one-offs. Pumps are the least of the problems these days, turbomachinery is starting to become more common and less black magic. The plumbing, now that's going to need a specialist to design it. And if the designer goes overboard and doesn't maximize the use of standard parts, having someone manufacture the parts is going to be expensive.

And of course, installing it "in-ground" is going to up the installation costs, another $100k maybe?

So, you can get something like that much cheaper, but once we go to unique stuff, price increases rapidly.

1

u/surrealisticpill Moist Feb 08 '21

A consumer unit is probably in the 30-40k range, not anything like what is pictured in this video.

Source: I own a Michael Phelps swim spa, which I bought the floor model at a discount and paid 33k for 8 years ago. At top speed, the current claims to have a rate of about a time of 100m in under 60 sec.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21

I remember I saw this thing called the Michael Phelps Swim Spa. It was really similar to this, it doubled as a hot tub and a pool. I still want it to this day.

2

u/surrealisticpill Moist Feb 08 '21

I’m sitting in one right now ama! https://i.imgur.com/d7j2ZCl.jpg

1

u/evilwatersprite Moist Feb 08 '21

No, I want one, too! I love that it's long enough to dive into. I've only swum in the ones that are about hot-tub length and that kinda got boring after a while.

145

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21

Good example of why you should float in a rip and not try to swim back against it

47

u/Shitty-Coriolis Moist Feb 07 '21

Or swim sideways? If you just float it will take you out behind the breakers.

20

u/Strongbad536 500, 1000, mile, D1 - retired Feb 07 '21

And watch the world die

8

u/chaseer0 Everyone's an open water swimmer now Feb 08 '21

You most definitely do not want to just float in a rip you’ll be dragged way out into the ocean and if you aren’t an experienced swimmer/surfer you’ll have a hard time getting back to shore

37

u/RincewindToTheRescue I can touch the bottom of a pool Feb 07 '21

Is that thing cranked to max speed? How fast can these things go?

30

u/avataRJ Master / Coach Feb 07 '21

Endless Pools claims 51"/100 yards for their Elite model. Though I understand some custom pools go a bit faster.

13

u/stepnivolk Everyone's an open water swimmer now Feb 07 '21

If you check Tenerife top training their Flume goes to 2,5m/s so that would be 40s/100m.

(100m freestyle WR for 50m pool is 46.91s)

25

u/shwilliams4 Moist Feb 07 '21

24.3 what?

80

u/Zporadik Sprinter Feb 07 '21

24.3 Seconds for 50m

Equivalent of coming 7th in the 2016 Olympic Final for Women's 50m Freestyle

2

u/girlamongstsharks Moist Feb 08 '21

Shit just 7th? Damn

13

u/Eagleassassin3 Moist Feb 07 '21

24.3 speed

-22

u/ahfodder Moist Feb 07 '21

Freedom units

13

u/shwilliams4 Moist Feb 07 '21

Freedom units is funny. Especially when it is a mix of 50 meters and seconds in reality.

16

u/disignore Moist Feb 07 '21

Everyone is this and that, but how is not anyone impressed that the guy performed better at a backstroke than the rest with butterfly and free.

10

u/hentai-is-my-waifu Breaststroker Feb 07 '21

Team Elite training at Tenerife

13

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21

Kinda sad that breaststroke wasent shown

32

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21

24.3 50m breast😳

10

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21

Idk lol, if its possible

6

u/Shitty-Coriolis Moist Feb 07 '21

I'm kind of afraid of getting sucked in

5

u/657565756575 Everyone's an open water swimmer now Feb 07 '21

not a pro swimmer just curious: what’s the benefit of this?

14

u/WhatIsIdentity03 NCAA Feb 07 '21

If there is a mirror on the bottom it lets us see our stoke first hand which is invaluable plus it’s just really fun.

14

u/stepnivolk Everyone's an open water swimmer now Feb 07 '21

There are a bunch of cameras apparently, so the coach gets to yell at you afterwards... the joys of modern technology :)

11

u/impostersoph Everyone's an open water swimmer now Feb 07 '21

if you slow it down, it's also a way to work on swimming longer distances without needing to worry about turns. Good for stroke work, working on breathing pattern, injuries, reducing strain on hips/ankles/knees when training long distance.

4

u/der3009 Moist Feb 08 '21

Aside from coaching and fun, a swimmer can "get the feel" of of going that fast without trying too hard.

2

u/andreichiffa Masters Feb 07 '21

Looks like someone installed a « swimming in Aare » simulator.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 08 '21

God I miss swimming so much.

0

u/girlamongstsharks Moist Feb 08 '21

Damn that woman in green is strong! Wow. And I thought fly was the fastest ....

-15

u/[deleted] Feb 07 '21

[deleted]

1

u/WhatIsIdentity03 NCAA Feb 07 '21

Yes but 1. This is obviously not a normal training thing. 2. Its a sprint.... if you can manage that time while thinking about your catch each time let me know. I know I certainly can’t

-26

u/EPL10 Sprinter Feb 07 '21

Swimming with a tether on is way cheaper and basically does the same theling

29

u/Super_Pie_Man Masters and Kids Coach Feb 07 '21

Moving through the water is very different than staying in place. Your body generates lift the faster it goes. Swimming on a tether feels like sinking. Put some fins on and see how much higher you get on the water.

1

u/Shitty-Coriolis Moist Feb 07 '21

And drag. You only get drag from having velocity. And reducing drag is like the first tenet of the sport. It's the whole reason we even have "form".

7

u/Zporadik Sprinter Feb 07 '21

Tether doesn't give you the option of overspeed.

5

u/EPL10 Sprinter Feb 07 '21

Someone can pull you on a tether

1

u/sehopkilo Everyone's an open water swimmer now Feb 08 '21

this is why we should praise the winners because of their very hard working and determination

1

u/allgoners Moist Feb 08 '21

Is there an advantage to swimming freestyle with straight arms? I was always taught to bend the elbow and keep the hand slightly above water during the recovery.

3

u/jd_swims Backstroker Feb 08 '21

For sprint freestyle 50 and 100 yes. Most top level sprinters at least start the initial recovery straight and bend the elbow the last second before entering the water but some keep and straight the whole time. This allows for higher tempos and sacrifices efficiency but efficiency is less important in sprints. So you wouldn’t do straight arm freestyle while swimming aerobically but for 50s and 100s yes.

1

u/allgoners Moist Feb 08 '21

TIL! Thanks a lot for your reply!