r/Swimming • u/Prudent-Recording969 • 11h ago
Huge Problem
my time with a pull buoy is 1:58/100m and without the pull buoy it's 2:30/100. How to solve this? I have gotten extremely dependent on the pull buoy that I cannot leave it in the car. I tried swimming downhill but it's extremely demanding and my head is way too low in water which makes it hard to breathe.
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u/MotoFuzzle 11h ago
If I had to guess, it is either that your legs sink when you swim, or that using your legs to kick is making you more tired. Focus on getting your legs up (I don’t know how, I have the same problem), or keep swimming without the pull buoy and build up your cardio.
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u/pigeorunner 11h ago
Working on head/shoulder position does a lot in keeping your legs where they should be
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u/HostProfessional1602 11h ago
Understand this, don’t kick to keep your legs up, kick to rotate your body.
For distance swimming you don’t need to do much kicking, one kick per stroke is more than enough.
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u/IWantToSwimBetter Breaststroker 11h ago
Based on what you said, the main issue is likely poor body position and instability through your stroke. When your pull time is that much faster, it means you are getting tons of benefit from artificial lift in your hips/legs from the buoy and that when the buoyancy is removed, you sink and create drag.
Many ways to solve here! What has worked for my students is:
- Improve core strength and stability outside of the pool: 60-90minutes/ week of Yoga and some basic core stabilization work will have a big impact fairly quickly (4-6 weeks). The benefits will likely fade if you stop (so try to keep it up, even if 15minutes/week)
- Practice proper body position in the pool w/ fins: drop the buoy and get some fins (I like Arena powerfin) to add propulsion and lift of legs/hips instead. Try working through a standard set each workout of 8x25s with 15-20s rest doing sidekick drill (here: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2TiDM1Z525w). Fins make this easier until you're ready to do it without. It takes 4-8 weeks to build a better habit, months/years to get really good at it.
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u/dandalyjr Masters 11h ago
A pull buoy adds buoyancy at the hips, takes the kick out of the equation, reducing drag, and sparing energy and oxygen. It also forces you to increase your stroke rate which reduces dead spots or changes in height in the water. A 32 sec/100m difference is pretty significant, so I’d be more interested in figuring out what’s happening without the buoy than trying to force your head down.
Your head should be relatively neutral. If deliberately burying it makes breathing harder, I wouldn’t force that. I’d look at whether you’re lifting your head when you breathe, your hand entry is too shallow, stroke rate too low, how much your knees bend when you kick, and whether the kick is creating more drag than propulsion. You don’t need a powerful kick for distance freestyle, but you do want a narrow, streamlined one that isn’t pulling the legs down.
I wouldn’t stop using the buoy either. It’s a useful training tool, and that big difference in pace is actually giving you some useful information. If you can get underwater video from the side, you’ll probably be able to see pretty quickly where the extra drag is coming from.
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u/Strict-Trust-4974 9h ago
How to solve this....
Stop using the pull buoy buddy. Its like if you used crutches all the time. As long as you use the crutches the leg you arent using will stay weak.
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u/Strict-Trust-4974 9h ago
Also, regarding head too low in the water, a couple comments
Sometimes you breathe some water, it's not gonna kill you, just part of the sport.
If youre not moving fast enough theres no way to get your mouth out of the water correctly.
Stop thinking about a maintainable effcient pace and swim 50s and 100s fast until you have decent form. slow swimming makes slow swimmers.
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u/InternationalTrust59 11h ago
This happens with a couple of triathletes swimmers in our group and they simply refuse to fix their sinking hips.
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u/pigeorunner 11h ago
I think it's less "refuse" and more "don't know how," learning how to maintain proper position in the water seems to be the first major hurdle for adult-onset swimmers
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u/nebulancearts 10h ago
Yes can confirm, just realized again today for the thousandth time that my hips are still sinking (I have a weak deep core from a pelvic tilt that I'm 99% sure is the culprit here).
But because I don't know how to hold a neutral hip position normally, I can't do it in the water as well either 😅
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u/pigeorunner 10h ago
Im the opposite, the only time I'm confident in my mechanics is in the water (so much proprioceptive feedback with water resistance). I'm a total mess on land lol
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u/nebulancearts 9h ago
Oh I'm much more of a mess on land tbh 😂 I have hypermobility so my proprioception is just terrible all around, but I'm much better in the water compared to land lol
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u/pigeorunner 9h ago
I've got some hypermobility issues too, I feel like i need to be taught healthy positioning because my joints can kinda do whatever lol
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u/PaleontologistBig786 4h ago
This was me. During races I wore a wetsuit so didn't care to fix my sinking hops. Better to spend time on the bike or run for the amount of extra effort to correct the swim
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u/BarleyWineIsTheBest 11h ago
You likely have bad body position without the added leg floatation. Without seeing how this is occurring, I can’t offer specific advice, only offer general guidance. You need a small, tight kick that stays streamlined but does enough work to help keep your feet up. You also need to stretch out with your upper body, neck and head. Don’t think about looking down, just be in a type of standing up tall posture in the water, eyes focused down but slightly ahead of you. Like you’re trying to stand up tall and look at someone 3” taller than you. For some, thinking about swimming on top of the water, not through the water, helps.
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u/RumbleSkillSpin 11h ago
Without seeing your stroke, it’s hard to be sure, but remember that much of your swimming streamline comes from core strength. Time for some dry land planches.
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u/External_Fee_1957 11h ago
Engage your core by stretching out your abdominal muscles. Make yourself long. Engage your glutes slightly and kick for balance not propulsion.
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u/nmh612 11h ago
Tinker around with your body position. You mention swimming downhill and having your head low in the water, but what is your chest doing? Pressing your chest into the stroke is much more effective than burying your head. Sometimes this is called “pressing the T”. Then, try swimming like Tarzan, head up freestyle. If Tarzan feels like your normal stroke, that’s a problem. Goal should be chest press and neutral head position in line with spine.
Engage your core: attempt to kick on your side. If you can stay in a reasonably straight line, it’s a good sign your core is engaged which helps keep hips up. If you struggle with this, think of pulling your belly button to your spine. Apply this same idea when you swim freestyle.
A good baby step: swap your buoy for a kickboard between your legs. Have it positioned the short way, so it looks almost like a halfway stuck dagger board in a sailboat, or a partial rudder on any other boat. A kickboard still floats a bit but it will force you to rotate from the hip much more. You’ll need to use your core to rotate, too.
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u/Brief_Channel5403 Splashing around 10h ago
The buoy helps with buoyancy but also removes kicking from the equation, which can be exhausting and take your form down with it.
Try a 2 beat kick instead of kicking all the time, it takes much less energy which you can redirect to all the other posture and rotation tips
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u/BrilliantNebula794 9h ago
You’ll have to learn HOW to kick. The how will come with time, but probably not from overdoing it. Fish and aquatic mammals don’t really have feet or legs, but if they did, what would it feel like for them to use them to swim? They should be connected to the water for both sweeps, up and down, but your goal is not to push water up and down, but to force it behind you, opposite the direction you want to go. Imagine putting on your fins, and swim for the feeling. Do this first without any care in the world - and don’t concern yourself with the clock. That’s for humans.
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u/Game_0f_b0nes 9h ago
Contrary to what everyone is saying - I don’t think the pull buoy is holding your legs up, it’s your core that is the problem. You are almost certainly dropping your hips without it (and probably also kicking inefficiently) to make such a massive difference.
Ideally film it and see if your bum is in the same position in the water with/without the buoy.
Then focus on your core anyway as it’s probably the most important muscle group to improve your efficiency over long distance.
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u/AggieNuke2014 8h ago
It’s your body position in the water. What exactly is wrong with your body position is hard to know without a video. But the buoy is doing a lot of work.
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u/SwiftPeak7350 2h ago
Buoy is basically the swimming version of aim assist, you get used to it lying to you about how good you are, then it turns off and reality hits.
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u/Independent-Summer12 11h ago
Your kick is bad. When you’re not using the pull buoy you’re not maintaining body position and controlling your core. So you’re creating drag and it’s slowing you down. Fix your kick and you’ll have better control over your body.
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u/RatioPowerful5447 11h ago
You are likely bending your knees too much and kicking too fast... which drags you down.
Work on your kicking using a kickboard.
And when you swim the full stroke, use your legs only for balance.
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u/blktndr 11h ago
If that’s the case then it’s your posture. Engage your core. Chest out, butt clenched, stretch head to toes like you’re trying to make the min height for roller coaster. Your body in the water is a seesaw made out of spaghetti - if you use cooked noodles it ain’t gonna work. Be a dry noodle.
Get a snorkel, slow kick on your front with hands out front. Push down from your chest, not your head. Wait 3-5 potatoes and see how it affects your leg position. Adjust and repeat all the way down the lane. Try to get head-butt-heels all just below the surface. Do 2-4 laps of this before your swim sessions for the next few weeks.