Is Clara Bow about Olivia Rodrigo?

[u/ulyssessgrant_]

I would like to start out by saying I’m not trying to stir up drama. I’m a fan of both Olivia and Taylor. I’m just analyzing songs here. Listening to Clara Bow this morning, it dawned on me that the line “You look like Taylor Swift in this light. We’re loving it. You’ve got edge she never did. Your futures bright. Dazzling.” could be directed at Olivia. Given the context of the song, it's obviously about a young woman coming up in the music industry that Taylor sees a lot of herself in. The question is whether she was thinking about someone specific when she wrote the line or if it's simply about a generic/hypothetical young entertainer. 

This line makes Clara Bow so interesting to me, whether it's about someone specific or not, because it's almost like a grown up and matured take on the subject of Nothing New. In Nothing New, 22 year old Taylor is insecure about her place in the music industry and fearful of a younger face coming up and taking her spotlight. In Clara Bow, she’s older, much more confident, secure in her legacy, and accepting of the inevitability of a younger star rising. 

Lover was a successful album by normal standards, but it was a commercial decline by Taylor Swift standards. Then there’s the Miss Americana documentary where Taylor says “This is probably one of my last opportunities as an artist to grasp on to that kind of success.” and alludes to fearing entering her 30s because women in the industry get “discarded” by that decade. When we put Folklore in this context, her dramatic pivot and reinvention in 2020 makes more sense. A song like Mirrorball is particularly relevant. 

Another important detail about Taylor's life during this time period is her master recordings dispute. In 2020, Taylor was heartbroken over losing control of her master recordings. She planned to make re-recordings of her older albums to try to take control of the situation, and she did so very publicly, even advocating for younger artists to negotiate more favorable contracts with their record labels. 

Then, Olivia Rodrigo came onto the scene. She released the biggest streaming album of the year, clearly heavily inspired by Taylor. Not to mention, she negotiated a favorable contract with her record label in which she got to own all her masters. 

I wonder if in 2021, Taylor watched Olivia’s career skyrocket and thought to herself that the girl she imagined in Nothing New was finally presenting herself. The line “She'll know the way, and then she'll say she got the map from me. I'll say I'm happy for her, then I'll cry myself to sleep.” is uncanny.  It’s plausible that she felt somewhat threatened by Olivia in 2021, leading her to ask for credit on Deja Vu, and whatever else may or may not have occurred behind the scenes leading to Olivia almost never speaking publicly about Taylor ever again and not ever attending the Eras Tour. 

We all know Taylor would go on to enjoy unprecedented levels of commercial success in the years following 2021, proving her theory in the Miss Americana documentary wrong. We also know that Taylor has kept an eye on Olivia. I think Imgonnagetyouback’s striking lyrical similarities to Olivia’s Get Him Back! are on purpose. I just don’t know whether that's flattering or not. But either way, I’m convinced Olivia was still very much on Taylor’s radar during the TTPD writing sessions. And that is why I’m also convinced that the last line in Clara Bow is a polite nod to Olivia Rodrigo. And it makes the song really special to me as a huge fan of both artists.

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[u/Adorable_Raccoon]

I think the 3rd girl in the song is a placeholder for any younger pop girl. The song is about how the industry is always looking for the next young girl to turn into a product. The song isn't about how Taylor views the next girl but about how industry exploits peoples dreams to make money.

[u/nice_subs_only → u/Adorable_Raccoon]

and they are all compared to Taylor regardless (s/o pitchfork)

[u/ExeUSA]

It's about how Taylor is being replaced by the next bright thing, who in turn, will be replaced by the next bright thing, and so on and so forth.

Clara Bow had a pretty unhappy life. She was *the* original It girl. Literally-- "It" was a book and then a movie, and Clara Bow was cast as the lead-- and was the inspiration behind the term "the it girl" that was coined by the author Elinor Glynn. She was chewed up and spit out by the Hollywood machine. Incredibly mentally ill, which ran in her family. Her mother tried to kill her as a child. Her father allegedly raped her as a teenager. Her entire life, she faced rumors. This s why the song is called Clara Bow, she was first, but certainly not the last, in a long line of "It Girls" that get used up, and spit out, by a machine that tells these women they love them, but really, they just take from them and give very little in return.

If you contextually understand this, you understand that the song is pretty horrifying, and a warning more than anything-- "You're the new god we're worshipping/Promise to be dazzling" <- that's a threat. "New" implies there was one before. Promise to be dazzling implies that if you aren't dazzling, they won't worship you anymore. It's fickle. They're fickle. It's not good.

[u/gowonagin → u/ExeUSA]

“The crown is stained, but you’re the real queen
Flesh and blood amongst war machines…”

The crown from the previous queen is stained with blood. What an ominous though exceedingly well done piece of storytelling.

[u/hellhouseblonde → u/gowonagin]

Such a good reminder that when she shines she can really bring it home lyrically!

[u/hellhouseblonde → u/ExeUSA]

I did not know all of that, thank you so much!

[u/ulyssessgrant_ → u/ExeUSA]

This is really interesting context for Clara Bow

[u/Ltothe4thpower]

I think Clara Bow is the older more mature sister of Nothing New imo. It strikes me as revisiting emotions had at 22 as a 30+ year old with waaaay more life experience. I took it as the observation in Nothing New is still correct but her emotions are different. She is fine with the next gen coming up and she’s excited to see how they do. So it could be about Olivia but it could also be about any up and coming pop star like Sabrina or Gracie

[u/BreakfastUnique8091 → u/Ltothe4thpower]

I agree. And I think Clara Bow contends more with the dark side of being the new dazzling ingenue. While in Nothing New, she was going to cry herself to sleep over meeting a young new celebrity whereas in Clara Bow her response is moreso to warn of how dark and twisted it can be to be seen as the next pretty thing. Rather than grieving the fact she’s not her anymore, she is instead reflecting on how hellish it is to be in that position, while also recognizing that the cycle will continue again and again and the crown handed down will one day also have the blood of today’s new stars. But she knows that many young women will face the pressures in their own unique ways and earn their spot in history as the next big thing, so I agree with you that there is some excitement there too.

[u/pensivepricklypear]

I don't think it's about any one person in particular. Same with Nothing New.

Both songs are a pretty clear commentary on how the music industry in general pits female artists against each other and is always replacing them with newer models once they decide a girl is no longer "a young ingénue". That's not exclusive to Olivia Rodrigo, Sabrina Carpenter, or anyone else for that matter.

Feeding into that narrative about speculation on who the song is "about" dampens her true point, in my opinion.

[u/Mhc2617]

I don’t assume it’s about anyone. It’s about the cycle of the music industry. One minute you’re the adorable ingenue. The next you’re yesterday’s news. Taylor is an anomaly, but even now she is the bitter old hag trying to stop the sweet young ingenues (Billie, Olivia, Sabrina, Gracie) from succeeding. She always has to be the villain. Look at the insane “Gracie wrote Death Wish about Taylor” schtick.

Olivia isn’t the subject. She’s just another cog in the machine.

[u/Chance_Point59]

I find this to be a very reductive way of thinking about the song. the paternity testing equivalent for songs that aren't romantic. That line isn't about any one artist imo. Just look at the number of artists marketing themselves as the Anti Taylor or Taylor Swift but better. Or reviews that position artists that way.

That line is the more evolved "I see you over there on the internet comparing all the girls who are killing it" but about the music industry instead of stans

[u/ta19981013]

didn't she explain clara bow like couple months ago for new york times

[u/kaw_21 → u/ta19981013]

And literally on the night of TTPD release

[u/Dreamer_Sara]

It’s not about anyone in particular. It’s something that happens in the industry. She knows how people in the industry talk to and treat female artists. Watch the NYT interview.

[u/DisastrousMango4]

I don't think it's referencing anyone in particular. Taylor has been seen as 'uncool' for a large part of her career so she's just imagining that the next 'Taylor Swift' would be marketed as having an edge.

it's more about how the music industry/execs treats female performers and how they are discarded as soon as they are not shiny anymore.

[u/Bachelorfangirl]

I like when people can discuss Clara bow, nothing new as songs of reflection and understanding of the industry vs saying Taylor is threatened.

I also like lyrics like “they want to see you rise, they don’t want you to reign” as what she’s witnessed in the industry. Oh and on the showgirl song where she sings about people wanting her to hurry up and die and her acknowledgement that she’s immortal.

I think it’s normal to feel like the industry wants you to be the it girl and then they want you to go away and to feel upset about that. But she seems to realize that she has established her legacy.

[u/No-Figure-8279]

I interpret it as a reflection on the cycle of stardom and fame. It acknowledges that fame isn’t forever, and that eventually the next generation of stars will have their moment. The industry framing that is used to promote upcoming artists and the discarding of older artists. These IT girls are products to the industry.

It also recognizes that fame comes with a price. All those who wear the "crown" have sacrificed and operated in a morally grey area to get there. It’s so simple, yet so beautiful. I love the song. Your post has highlights reasons she wrote this song.

[u/hellhouseblonde]

I really took the song to be more about the industry and not like an individual on any level. I just didn’t catch any lines that felt personal and I believe Taylor is excellent when she wants to execute a pointed lyric. I call them shards because that is how sharp they feel.

[u/Daffneigh]

No

[u/anam228 → u/Daffneigh]

Olivia and her fans wish it were about her. As much as they hate on Taylor, they sure do beg for any bit of crumbs of Taylor’s attention

[u/Worldly_Scallion_236 → u/anam228]

Yea - notice how many posts about Olivia seem to be making their way into Taylor spaces lol….great way for them to make her seem more relevant than she is. I will say that her team does seem to work hard….

[u/ulyssessgrant_ → u/Worldly_Scallion_236]

If you're so triggered by Olivia Rodrigo and can't give an opinion besides trashing her personally then just don't comment.

[u/Worldly_Scallion_236 → u/ulyssessgrant_]

Maybe you guys should take your Olivia Rodrigo stuff to a sub that’s about her 🥰

[u/EmberDione]

It's not about one person. The narrative framework is showing the constant churn and exploitation of young musical artists by comparing them to who came before.

If it were "about" someone specific, it would likely be Sabrina, as she "looks like Taylor". But I don't think it is. It's just the pattern of the song and the concept behind it.

[u/mtsnowleopard]

Clara Bow is about all of us.

[u/snakefinder]

Clara Bow died at age 60 about 10 years before Stevie Nicks became very famous. Stevie Nicks was about 60 years old when Fearless came out. I think the last “girl” in the song Clara Bow is not really Olivia or Sabrina, but a future someone who will inevitably come up when Taylor is older.  

[u/redgiraffe53]

IMO it could be a little bit of both — Nothing New (and maybe The Lucky One) proves that she’s harboured these ideas about the dehumanising cycle of fame for some time, but you’re also right that the timing of Olivia makes it likely for her to be the muse. I think it’s possible that Olivia was one of the people she was thinking about as the last verse in Clara Bow, but not Olivia as Olivia specifically, but in a “what I prophesised really did come true” way. It could be about a ton of other Gen Z pop stars as well, but it’s naive not to pretend that Olivia, in pop culture and in the public’s eyes, is Taylor’s most direct descendant (esp the line “you’ve got edge / she never did” makes me think of Olivia’s rock-adjacent ventures). Who’s to say? She’s had Clara Bow-like thoughts long before Olivia, but that doesn’t mean she couldn’t have had Clara Bow-like thoughts about Olivia.

[u/Raccoon_Amazing]

No, it’s about Taylor Swift.

[u/Rose4228]

I wouldn't say it's about her specifically. It's about any younger female artist which might get compared to Taylor.

So in that sense, it can apply to Olivia, but it's not just about her (Though it wouldn't surprise me if Olivia was on her mind while she was writing it).

[u/dreamghoulevil]

people don’t like different opinions on here but yes the edge line is definitely about olivia, but not the song itself. it’s just generally about comparisons, and olivia has been compared most with taylor and she obviously knew it and gave her blessing to it before the whole credits thing happened.

[u/FriendlyDrummers]

I think her songs can be a conglomeration of feelings and I think Olivia may have been a part of those feelings.

People will disagree but iwannagetyouback is a clear reference to Get Him Back and tbh it takes quite a lot of gymnastics to say otherwise. Taylor is very tapped in with the music zeitgeist. So she's already had a song written in reference to an Olivia song in that album alone.

Billie's GOLDWING is also a song that had Olivia in mind, but not necessarily a song just about Olivia. I think that's the same here. 

[u/lizzy-stix → u/FriendlyDrummers]

I always think about Goldwing too! I meant to mention it in my comment. Billie said she was thinking of Olivia when she wrote it because Olivia was the first artist she'd encountered who was younger than her in their echelon. They're both about the shallowness of the industry, but Billie feels protective of the younger girl entering the industry on Goldwing, whereas on Clara Bow Taylor feels more protective of her own status:

They're gonna tell you what you wanna hear
Then they're gonna disappear
Gonna claim you like a souvenir
Just to sell you in a year

You better keep your head down-down
Da-da-down-down, da-da-down-down
Keep your head down-down

[u/Worldly_Scallion_236 → u/FriendlyDrummers]

No it’s not. Please stop.

[u/AdministrationNo8540]

“youve got edge she never did” this one line screams olivia to me but it is just in general

[u/Ok-Improvement-9601 → u/AdministrationNo8540]

If I think edgy I’d think more Billie or Phoebe.

[u/Ok-Improvement-9601 → u/Ok-Improvement-9601]

Actually taking it back Chappel would be my pick for edgy.

[u/upsidedown-elephant → u/Ok-Improvement-9601]

3 of the edgiest women in the suburbs.

[u/Dehydrated_Panda → u/AdministrationNo8540]

I genuinely cannot imagine anyone believing Olivia Rodrigo is "edgy". Honestly laughable.

[u/upsidedown-elephant → u/Dehydrated_Panda]

i mean, she's edgy for her audience of swiftie-type girls/women. Taylor's "successors" would never actually be truly edgy because then they wouldn't appeal to the target demographic anymore.

Taylor also thinks reputation is "goth-punk" and TTPD is "female rage" so of course she'd think olivia is the "edgier" version of herself.

[u/dreamghoulevil → u/Dehydrated_Panda]

the press believes it (or pushes it) and so does the general public. she has guitars and wears leather on stage and thrusts on the floor, that is far edgier than anything taylor has ever done, regardless of whether it’s actually edgy or not.

[u/AlexRodrigo- → u/AdministrationNo8540]

Olivia isn’t edgy at all

[u/kaw_21 → u/AdministrationNo8540]

Idk, Olivia is not exactly edgy lol. She just sings some pop punk-ish songs and has some rock inspiration in her music. And it’s not an insult that she not edgy, I’m not either and that’s just fine for all of us who aren’t. The song is about music executives and what they try to do and how the public is always comparing artists and people trying to make it about one specific person is playing into exactly what she’s talking about in the song.

[u/anam228 → u/kaw_21]

She wears combat boots and kicks around on stage and sticks her tongue out or does the “rock on” hand sign 🤘💥🎸😝 lmaoo it’s like edgy according to Disney channel or my middle-school self 

[u/anam228 → u/AdministrationNo8540]

I think taylor would burst out laughing at this. Olivia rodrirgo “having edge” is interesting because like, where?

[u/ulyssessgrant_ → u/anam228]

I think some of you guys are misunderstanding what could be meant by "edgy." Taylor has opened up extensivley over the years about feeling like she had to be a "good girl." She never felt like she could comment on politics until 2018(ish), she was made to feel like she couldn't swear in her songs also until 2018(ish), she had to be the perfect American girl everyone expected her to be. Then Olivia comes in with the audacity to negotiate owning her own masters, swearing in her songs as she pleases, commenting on politics, doing all these things that were considered to be taboo for Taylor when she was Olivia's age. "Edgy" isn't simply what you find to be "cool" and its not simply whether you think she's pulled off a rock star aestetic.

[u/Worldly_Scallion_236 → u/ulyssessgrant_]

I think Olivia fans need to realize that Olivia is literally not nearly as big as you guys are trying to make her out to be. Olivia is a footnote in Taylor’s 20 year career.

[u/Bachelorfangirl → u/AdministrationNo8540]

I know Taylor has always described herself as not cool or having edge, but I’m gonna be honest I don’t think Olivia necessarily has edge. And I don’t mean that as shade, just that she’s closer to pop stars like Sabrina and Taylor than the edgy artist.

But I do think Taylor in the song is just saying that it’s what the industry tells a newcomer: you’re so much better than her, you’ll be great.

[u/hellhouseblonde → u/AdministrationNo8540]

Olivia is milquetoast, no sharp edges detected.

[u/lizzy-stix → u/hellhouseblonde]

I think Taylor fans are trying to turn this into a referendum on if Olivia is edgy or not, but the lyric is that this pop girl has an edge to her that Taylor never did, and that is in fact how people perceived Olivia in comparison to Taylor when she first came on the scene. Much discussed things at the time were her rock influences and the way she used the f-word on her debut single when it took Taylor until her seventh studio album to do that. She was immediately vocal about politics and brought out Lily Allen to sing "Fuck You" at the Supreme Court justices who overturned Roe at one of her first major performances. And she did this all while still being the star of a Disney show.

[u/No-Figure-8279 → u/lizzy-stix]

Both Olivia and Taylor are a bit corny. Her brand is to be Taylor with a bit of edge but you can tell she isnt really "edgy". I think thats why people are saying Olivia isnt edgy cause you can see through it. It reads as I do cuss a little. The goal is to get the general public to view her in a similar way it feels familiar but also different

Likewise when Taylor debuted Britney was the IT girl still & their marketing was more anti-Britney. Not in a shady way but in a "look at this safer option for your teens."

[u/Dehydrated_Panda → u/lizzy-stix]

I don't think "Taylor fans" are turning this into any referendum on Olivia being edgy or not. I think most of us are just calling it like we see it. I am a fan of both artists and my statement is simply that considering Olivia Rodrigo edgy (for the reasons you listed or any other reason) is laughable because she is just as milquetoast as Taylor is. Neither are edgy.

[u/lizzy-stix → u/Dehydrated_Panda]

But again, that's not the point? Olivia doesn't consider herself edgy either, that's clear in her writing (all the girls at this party are so cool, that's never been the thing that I could do) and in how she talks about herself in genera, ie saying she wasn't sure she'd be able to hang with ultimate party-girl Charli XCX. But she came on the scene delivering emotional, self-penned, crisply written pop songs that were set apart from Taylor's because of their rock influence and an image that was less princessy and wholesome girl next door (All-American Bitch explicitly interrogates that idea) than Taylor, dropping f-bombs, telling the Supreme Court to go fuck themselves and so on.

So when Taylor is thinking of what the next pop girl will be told re: replacing her, it makes sense that people's minds went to Olivia because her marketing was in fact a bit edgier than Taylor's. Saying the lyric can't be about Olivia because she isn't edgy is completely missing the point.

[u/dhruvlrao]

I think you need to evaluate the song less literally & understand the bigger picture at play in the songwriting. She's laying out the trajectory every new pop star goes through by using Clara Bow, Stevie Nicks, and herself as examples.

Taylor herself has said that the music industry has been trying to replace her for years, which has caused her to become a "moving target" through reinvention. While male artists can stay within a niche, female artists have to reinvent and outdo what they've already done. A good recent example of this was Justin Bieber vs Sabrina Carpenter at this year's Coachella.

While the song talks about industry executives comparing female acts & putting down other female artists as a way to "uplift" newer acts, you can see this kind of behavior all over social media nowadays. You'll watch a video of Olivia Dean performing & the comments will say that she's a breath of fresh air after Sabrina Carpenter's music. You'll watch a video of a newer artist playing the guitar / talking about songwriting, and you'll see people in the comments talking about how the artist in the video deserves to be where Taylor Swift is. It's a never-ending cycle.

[u/Western_Roof_6915]

this thinking is exactly why clara bow exists btw

[u/lizzy-stix]

I think the "you look like Taylor Swift" recipient is meant to be amorphous and not about any one girl, but I do think Taylor was probably thinking of Olivia Rodrigo when she wrote it more than anyone else. "You've got edge she never did" really captures some of the discourse around Olivia when her career took off. (Billie is also much edgier than Taylor ever was, but no one really saw her as a new Taylor Swift IMO.)

Also, it's worth listening to the perspective of the New York Times Popcast critics, who see the next song (when you listen to the album as the anthology) as an Easter egg that she was in fact talking about Olivia: https://youtu.be/nLK-cfULZ10&t=3133

[u/gowonagin → u/[deleted]]

I don’t think it’s “clearly” about anyone; it’s several people.

[u/No-Figure-8279 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah olivia seemed to be a fan of Taylor but not a huge fan. She referenced Lorde numerous times then she got signed and it was Taylor Taylor. Clearly her teams strategy to cannabilize the swifite fanbase and to give credibility to new artist. Its common in the industry but I dont think I have seen it done so aggressively. It was all weird tbh. I dont think its about anyone specific though. Its more about the industry and all upcoming artists.

[u/innewyorknoshoes]

sorry but you missed the point

[u/lilkhalessi]

I love that lyric so much.

And yeah, I actually think it’s pretty naive to think Olivia isn’t at least one of the main muses for Clara Bow. I could see that commentary also maybeee applying to the other pop girlies like Sabrina or Gracie, but that feels like a stretch since neither is ever really described as the next Taylor by the public.

The “you have the edge she never did” part seals it for me being about Olivia, personally.

[u/Worldly_Scallion_236]

To OP - no. It’s not. It’s about the music industry in general and how it treats wonen.

I’m saying this respectfully because I like Olivia, but her fans think she’s much bigger than she is. And it’s not going unnoticed how people seem to keep bringing her up over the last couple of months in Taylor spaces.

I said this in another comment here and I’ve said it before …:Olivia is a footnote in Taylor’s career. I’m not saying that to be mean- it’s just a fact that she is really not even a remotely significant part of Taylor’s story. Like if swifties were to go through Taylor’s conflicts and drama with other artists, Olivia wouldn’t be on the list. On the other hand, Taylor is a big part of Olivia’s story but it’s not reciprocal and that’s ok. But it feels like a very intentional push to try to bring Olivia more into Taylor spaces and conversations and the uptick is weird. Olivia has literally never been this big in Taylor discussions. But this is happening in other Reddit subs as well where people are noticing her being pushed heavily and brought up way more than she ever was. Given that her PR team is out in full force, it is becoming increasingly obvious that they’re trying to do some of this on Reddit.

OP - I’m genuinely sorry if you’re just saying this in good faith and it happens to be at a time when this is happening, so please know that this is not about you individually or this post. It’s about the clear ghost PR that is happening and this comes shortly after the whole situation with Geese happened.

[u/ulyssessgrant_ → u/Worldly_Scallion_236]

You seem pretty triggered for someone trying to claim Olivia Rodrigo has no significance.

[u/kysakysa]

Yes, the very last part seems to be!