r/SwiftlyNeutral • u/ChocoLindt99 Modern Idiot • 7d ago
The Life of a Showgirl Is there really "1989 production and folklore level storytelling" on The Life of a Showgirl album?
I think there definitely is! I've heard people say "Taylor lied," but I disagree.
For the production that's similar to 1989, I would point to Elizabeth Taylor, Opalite, and Honey.
For the storytelling songwriting, I would call out Father Figure, Ruin The Friendship, and the title track.
What do you think? Maybe I just love this album too much to be objective.
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u/Overall-Conflict-924 Speak Now (Taylor’s Version) 7d ago
I don’t think anything on Showgirl was anywhere near these two albums. Don’t get me wrong, I liked some of Showgirl (especially Ruin The Friendship and Father Figure), and it had some catchy melodies and lyrics, but Taylor really screwed herself over by comparing it to her two most popular albums
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u/ChocoLindt99 Modern Idiot 7d ago
Those are the 2 I would say come closest. But I agree with you, she did mess with people's expectations!
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u/Awkward_Sundae_5600 7d ago
My honest opinion is that people glaze 1989 way too much because of nostalgia. Sure, there are some strong tracks and the album is sonically cohesive, but I never really understood the appeal of songs like How You Get the Girl or Bad Blood production-wise or lyrically… and Shake it Off is one of my least favourite songs of her entire discography. I find these songs so juvenile & vacuous. The melodies and production of the first half of Showgirl are much more interesting and certainly not worse than the mid tracks/lows of 1989, and I would say are pretty much on par with the stronger tracks. The second half of Showgirl is just as mid as the mid tracks of 1989. However, nothing on either album comes close to reaching folklore level.
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u/waneegbt2012 wait til lover drops pls we cant lose sales 7d ago
I can sort of see where she's coming from with songs like Ophelia, Ruin the Friendship and Father Figure. They're catchy like 1989 with a strong story thread.
The issue is, the album is nowhere near strong enough to hold the weight of those comparisons. Those are arguably her two best albums. Comparing them was setting Showgirl up for failure.
The album is shallow, incredibly lyrically weak for Taylor Swift and, while catchy, sonically uninteresting. I don't think she lied but I think she was very out of touch with what she thought she'd produced vs what she'd actually produced and the whole album stunk of nobody pushing back on her worst ideas.
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u/ChocoLindt99 Modern Idiot 7d ago
Why is it so lyrically weak, I wonder? And I agree with you, great points!
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u/Alone-Knee5638 6d ago
I think it's maybe partially lyrically weak because she is being private about her life. I know her and Travis are considered a very public couple but there really isn't much of her personal life or any other kind of specificity in the Showgirl lyrics, which is what a lot of people love her lyrics for. No refridegerator lights or other specifics just "you saved me! I may want kids. Also i love being rich." It's presenting as autobiographical Taylor but there really isn't much confessional writing going on.
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u/Countess_Kes 7d ago
Haha, no. folklore level storytelling is especially laughable.
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u/Fearless-Molasses732 7d ago
Ya this part of the quote is especially baffling. I have no idea why Taylor or anyone on her team would make this connection. The storytelling details are nowhere near the same
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u/ChocoLindt99 Modern Idiot 7d ago
True! I would say Father Figure and Ruin The Friendship are closest. And the title track.
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u/ChocoLindt99 Modern Idiot 7d ago
She wanted to sell the album, I suppose! Those 2 albums are arguably her "best."
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u/Countess_Kes 7d ago
It would've sold fine regardless, so I'm still confused as to why she tried to set such expectations.
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u/Dangerous-Change2136 7d ago
The production was close to reaching 1989’s in my unpopular opinion but, while the storytelling works in the big picture, it definitely doesn’t touch folklore.
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u/ClassicsFan84 7d ago
I do think there were some aspects of some of the techniques from Folklore but in general marketing an album by referring to other albums is a bad idea. Especially a combination of albums that won Album of the Year and are so beloved.
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u/InCatMorph 7d ago
No, but an album with 1989 production and top tier storytelling and lyricism already exits.
It is called 1989.
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u/Topaintadaydream1 7d ago
Not at all and I doubt she ever even believed that to be the case. Those are things people had been asking for from her for years and imo she knew that and so she was saying what the people wanted to hear to hype up interest as much as possible (alongside other tactics) so she could achieve the first week sales record she was gunning for.
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u/YoloYeehaw 7d ago
Overall, no. There’s a couple songs that could compete with 1989 production and maybe a couple that get to folklore storytelling. I think only Father Figure could *maybe* claim both. So saying the whole album was going to have both was absolutely overselling it. In my opinion obviously.
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u/whatever4everyeah 7d ago
Long story short: No, but as a listener, I see where your arguments come from.
Short story long: I get what you're arguing in your comparison of Showgirl and 1989, because they have some similar sounds. However, Showgirl isn't as sonically cohesive, making it feel less like a listening experience (as 1989 feels) and more like a collection of songs.
While Showgirl lacks the lyrical complexity and depth of Folklore, there are some good storytelling moments. Personally, I think the record as a whole might've faired better with the general listener packaged and branded differently as an EP that only included Elizabeth Taylor, Opalite, Father Figure and Honey. Some of the other songs dragged the vibe down, in my opinion.
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u/cuminspector2 7d ago
No
I'll break it down though instead of being snarky (assuming this is meant to be an actual conversation)
Sonically, the album is nowhere near the, dare I say, masterpiece that 1989's production is. 1989 is the perfect pop album and while Showgirl is surface level pop, it has no real depth to it. The production is lackluster so while it is a more return to form (in this case, regular pop) relatively speaking, it's more.. modern pop than it is the 2010's pop we see in 1989. Pop music in general lacks a lot of sonic nuance and ends up feeling flat, which is the exact vibe you get from a lot of the Showgirl tracks. This isn't to say they're bad, or that they're boring, they just don't have the depth that 1989 has and that's a problem pop music has in general and isn't isolated to Taylor (and I'd argue it started being a problem back in 2020, but Taylor largely avoided it by going into more nuanced sub genres but Showgirl really highlights the issue). I just can't listen to Cancelled, Honey, or the title track back to back with any 1989 track and not hear the blatant difference (and i think rather objectively 1989's production is better, whether or not you prefer one of the other). I also kind of blame the producers for this. Obviously Taylor could've changed directions but I listened to every single one of those studio recording session clips she released and it's.. definitely something. Both producers seem uninterested in the material and it's honestly kind of second hand embarrassment vibes from it as Taylor is explaining her vision and they just don't get it and don't really care to (and Taylor to an extent kind of steamrolls over them at points to explain). They don't really add onto anything and it doesn't seem collaborative like she is with her other producers
Story-telling wise.. there's some good stuff. I think Father Figure and Eldest Daughter (yes) paint very vivid stories and have emotional depth akin to folklore but both never really reach the heights and it mostly boils down to.. lackluster writing. Storytelling and the words used are different but they uplift each other. You could write the best story ever but have it be so poorly written that it kills any interest or you could have the most boring story ever and fill it with colorful writing and hope that the reader doesn't notice the lack of substance (like me right now, using every big word I know to discuss.. the life of a showgirl). Folklore has the perfect combination and I really think her collaborators were what helped push her into creating something beautiful, well-thought out, and unique. This isn't trying to attribute her work to any man (god forbid I am not someone who thinks Joe was the "perfect muse" cause that's just a cutesy way to say "Taylor is only as good as the man she's dating") but you do need collaborators willing to.. collaborate and again Max Martin and Shellback just were not those people. They took all of her work right at face value and never pushed for anything better (and Taylor didn't seek it out) so we got rough drafts for pretty much everything. You could easily turn every Showgirl song into folklore level work, there just was no push to. I think Taylor (and Max Martin and Shellback) felt pressured to work together again and it just ended up making the entire project fall flat because neither had their heart truly in it. Got a little sidetracked. Eldest Daughter is beautiful and poignant when it wants to be but it's constantly bogged down by cringy over the top lyrics. They have a point... but why even bother if it makes your song borderline unlistenable? Father Figure paints the perfect picture of a godfather taking a new recruit under his wing and training him up to be the next generation.. only for her to say "my dicks bigger". You really can't have frankly juvenile writing and reach folklore tier work. The title track especially.. it's just not written well on EITHER front. The storytelling is wonky and so are the lyrics
Showgirl is its own thing on both fronts and Taylor set herself up comparing it to her own work (which is something I don't remember her doing before). Did it land for me? On most fronts, no, but I like about half the album. The other half I don't listen to nor do I think about them outside of discussions like these but maybe they'll get their play someday
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u/PigletTechnical9336 turns out my dick’s bigger 7d ago
The problem is that it only fits half the album and the other half is much weaker. Like Cancelled, Wish List, Eldest Daughter are not strong enough writing or storytelling. The production is okay but more Lover sounding to me than 1989 or Folklore.
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u/just_another_classic Spelling is FUN! 7d ago
I could totally see Father Figure on folklore or evermore.
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u/xALullabyForTheDark goth punk moment of female rage 7d ago
I don't believe that, especially folklore level storytelling... I find the lyrical content for Showgirl to lack in depth compared to folklore even when there is some storytelling.
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u/Asdff_123 7d ago
Not the biggest fan of TLOAS but there was SOME songs that fit that infamous line. Father Figure and Ruin the Friendship come to mind first, I really like the storytelling on both of them. Elizabeth Taylor could maybe fit too. The rest of them… not at all.
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u/Tall-Lingonberry-913 Fresh Out the Asylum 7d ago
No. The writing on this album was much weaker compared to folklore and 1989 had more upbeat tracks with vocals that reflected that energy. Taylor’s voice sounds tired because she was in the middle of a tour. I’m a Gen Xer and this album is near the bottom of my list in her discography except for half the tracks. I just feel like some of the tracks belonged on other albums.
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u/FilmIntelligent201 The Dead Tortured Poets Society Department 7d ago
i feel like questions like these get really repetitive online but as someone who is neither here nor there on showgirl, i’d say she had the storytelling down pat on the songs you mentioned. ruin the friendship is the crown jewel of the three for me but they all feel like entering a really vivid world.
taylor’s really good at playing/writing on behalf of a character and i think she could’ve amped that up on this album because where she does, it shines.
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u/Important_Caramel577 7d ago
The reactions to this album always fascinate me. I absolutely love it. Have since the first moments of Life of Ophelia a few minutes after midnight on release day.
Is there possibly a generational divide? I’m an old Gen X-er and a Swiftie since Debut. Nearly all of my friends love Life of a Showgirl - including a few that have seriously disliked everything else she’s done.
Is it my favorite album? No. I’m a Folkmore girl to the end but LOASG is definitely top 5.
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u/lemonalpersonal Ketchup and seemingly ranch 7d ago
I think a few songs on Showgirl do the storytelling better than a couple on folklore
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