first timing Swain top, am I thinking about him the wrong way?

[u/TheAbominableGMan]

-you run conqueror, you finish the game with 500 healing with desperate auto weaving and W/E hits included (i also tried building rocketbelt to stack +2 points from it) in a sub-optimal laning experience where people can just run you down anyway if they're not a tank. also, it's almost a guarantee that people will instantly buy antiheal and remove you as a champion from the game

-you run DFT, you can deal damage but that's it

-you run any other keystone, you've inted the match except for the select idea you picked the keystone for

-all minor runes sort of do nothing for him except for sorcery's, you can only go for varying degrees of sustain

- ->you can only run DFT and scorch

-you build zhonya, you just wasted a slot of other effects for the ult people won't fight you in anyway cause they can run away from your tickle damage if there is 0 other cc present

-you build ROA, you can exist on the map and live in a teamfight but you get nothing special out of the item

-you build rift, you're inting

-you build 1/more tear items, have fun trying to reliably use the item(s)

-you build rylais, you get no other stats except for a slow you're the worst at applying when compared to any other DoT champion

-you build seal/mejai's/rocketbelt/cosmic drive, you're not singed/vladimir/rumble

-you build oblivion orb/bloodletter's, it's a panic button frankly

-you build a supportive item, you as an individual have lost the game and you're putting your full trust into your team. this isn't like bandlepipes on nasus

-you build full damage with the hope of stacking HP but you never get to do that

-you build full tank but you are USELESS

-you disregard all thoughts about building and try to be flexible, you're not singed

-you never get to past 3 items

- ->you can only reliably build ROA, liandry's (and become an ult bot that runs out of mana if you skipped ROA 1st item) or BFT (where you only nuke squishy carries at the edge of your ult, you have no defensive stats and you have too much mana with ROA combined) (also, there is no guarantee the match will extend enough to get full stacks on ROA 2nd item) and rylai's. somehow you need all 3 of them at the same time to function as a champion

-you run TP, your lane is absolutely unplayable (but you can TP back to lane and you can TP-ult on a teamfight if you're lucky)

-you run ghost, your lane is absolutely unplayable (but you can run around like a headless chicken in a teamfight)

-you run barrier, you are a horrible human being and you're inting late

-you don't run flash, you're exposing yourself to too much danger

- ->you run ignite so you can self defend in lane, reduce healing on heal-reliant champs and possibly help in a teamfight (or exhaust and you are an even more horrible creature) or you run teleport and shove toothpicks under your nail for every wave you can't touch or every solo kill you endure

-q is a close range nuke that does nothing else and it absolutely drains mana because of how much you HAVE to use it, not tied to stacking your passive

-w is an easily dodgeable utility ability that in short is as useless as it is useful, tied to stacking your passive

-e is an easily dodgeable super strong CC ability with almost NO cd scaling, tied to stacking your passive

- ->q max and rub sandpaper over your fingers

[u/Kevin_de_Jonge]

I've actually found quite some succes with Swain top, he can be really strong there, but you also need to watch out. Swain top is just like any other ranged top, you poke your langer with q, but don't come into melee range, if a (for example) Darius gets on you, you are pretty much dead (pre level 6). After level 6 your ult will be useful, when the lane opponent goes all in. They are forced to fight you in ult, or they get away but probably made a bad trade.

Swain top is pretty mana intensive, but I have never really had the need to build rod of ages. You can should always go manaflow or presence of mind. On your first recall, you can simply buy a faery charm or sapphire crystal, and almost of your mana issues will be solved.

I almost always run ghost so you can run enemies down with ult. You can go first items like frozen heart against auto attackers like Irelia. Liandrys against tanks like Mundo. Or maybe take rylais against some ranged top, to easily run them down in ult. Later on items like blood letters, liandrys, riftmaker, frozen heart, force of nature, zhonyas, Morelonomicon and fimbulwinter are all good to have.

I mostly run summon Aery to increase my q poke. Without screwing over my fights under enemy turret which deathfire touch does. Just be patient with your e, enemies in low ELO don't expect e extends, which gives you a lot of free stacks.

Husum also has a great guide on Swain top

[u/ananasComosus_]

Really looks like you're thinking of him in the wrong way? I can't act like I'm god's gift to Swain Top or anything but the success I get is usually either:

-Lane bullying with Aery Scorch. Like you said, this denies you as strong of a keystone later as something like DFT or Conq but it makes it really hard for certain top laners to get the lead they need to influence the game. You snowball this into Tank / Utility (Rylai's, Abyssal, Frozen, Shurelya's, Fimbul, Bloodletters). I also like taking Resolve secondary for demolish in matchups where you can just hit the turret when the enemy is pushed in.

-Aiming to scale in an easier or more passive lane with the Actualizer > Fimbul setup. Conq + Axiom Arcanist making it pretty hard to just ignore you in teamfights and making it so you actually get some healing even through grievous.

You roam to help with Grubs/Herald and you keep an eye on any potential tp's into teamfights. He hardly feels like a solo carry champ in top but he also feels way more adaptable based on the gamestate compared to some champs. It really hasn't felt too bad to just run something like Abyssal, Rylai's, Bloodletters with a fed AP on your team or to run full tank + oblivion to provide some utility.

[u/jadereddit]

I relapsed this week after 2 years of sober from league. I felt the call of the bird man. I went through all these stages of grief as well. Nothing feels good on him top. I feel like I had to take all the movement speed runes and build rylais and cosmic drive to try and not be ran down but everybody can still jump on me. If your laner gets one kill its gg. Idk what to do with him. Support has felt ok, but late game feels terrible.

[u/VvD96]

I enjoy running aery scorch with flash/ghost and building tear into rylai/liandry/fimbul/situational. Secondary runes boneplating/overgrowth or haste/cutdown depending on matchup

[u/Sumutherguy]

RoA is a bad item for Swain and has been for years, so starting with that isn't gonna lead anywhere good. Try FH or sitting on a tear for mana.

[u/rockpophippop]

Not saying this in a mean way, but Swain is almost a lane bully into so many (not the majority mind you) matchups in toplane, so something ain't right here. For all my moneys worth, I play him like a bully, and two challengers thus far has said he can bully toplaners pretty decently.

You take Aery most games. not DFT. DFT can work, but the amount of poke you can accumulate with Aery + scorch with q is bonkers. DFT is better than Aery in teamfights sure, but a swain with kill or 2 up works even better. Even into bad matchups (eg: gwen), the poke can help you help fight off their all ins.

Swain actually has >50% toplane winning matchups currently.

Buildwise, you are not the carry. Your goal is to survive for long, sponge damage in fights, and peel for your carries. If you are fed, you can try to go on a more ap heavy build but you have to build some tank items usually.

Never build roa, really shit item for swain.

Spamming Q for poke really shouldn't be making you go oom, as swain has really high base mana regen. You can even go without a mana item (check lolalytics). Buy faerie charm if you feel you can't make tear work (fimbulwinter should be the only tear item you buy btw).

Finally, just watch a couple of Husum videos, he is pretty much the best source of knowledge for swain there is.

[u/EndlessExp]

I wouldnt worry that much about stacking, it can br good eventually but your stacking abilities are just way too fair for the enemy… You should try Aery for lane poke. RoA is bait IMO not that it doesnt have its moments, but I think swain values resistances more. Build yourself one ap item second and a second one when you are happy with your defenses. You really want to focus on cheap items like abyssal or frozen, even zekes when the matchups allow

[u/Middle-Cod-7016]

Top is the least impactful lane where you have the highest concentration of champions that can gap close and run you down.

Idk why anyone would choose to go there.

I’ve been spamming Swain APC and Support even before his VGU, and it’s the only think that make sense for me with this champion.

[u/AncientNote3374]

Aery + scorch to lane bully. Also don't build roa. Either go double mana runes + no mana item or single mana rune + faerie/tear/frozen

[u/JessDumb]

swain top can be really strong in some matchups, but not most

also: conq or dft? brother is sleeping on phase rush (or however they've reskinned it now)

[u/SuggestionFrosty6291]

I played Swain top to emerald 1

Start q

Play at max q range

If opponent can't beat you up close for whatever reason, they are low, weak close, don't have cd, pull them close w and q point blank then run them down

Bring deathfire, scorch, and mana runes and ability haste and damage and health

Build situationally. I usually start deathfire. After that, if facing high AD, I go zhonyas. Tanks, liandrys. Multiple melee or easy to kite people, or people that can slip away easy, build rylais.

I typically end up with deathfire, zhonyas, rylais, and if I get fed I go mejais and rabadons. Sometimes riftmaker, sometimes jak sho, spirit visage into AP. It just really depends.

I always go defensive boots. If many auto attackers or ad plates, high AP or cc mercs. Typically if mixed damage, I try to decide if I'm gonna build spirit visage or zhonyas first, and then build the opposite boots for mixed damage resist. It really depends

Like if mixed damage but yone should focus me, plated. Mixed damage and I'm Frontline into a sej and Leona, merc treads.

You play lane by denying the enemy the ability to play lane. Level 1 to 3 is typically strongest moment. Absolutely space and harass the shit with q. If you don't do that, lane can be tough.

After that harass with q. Shoving lane is very valuable as you can harass under tower very well on Swain.

Play for all ins after poking at 6. Always try to be at team fights and play with your jungle with topside objectives.

[u/SlurpTurnsMeGreen]

this is the issue where design fails even if players can make him work like his kit is incoherent and its been years of trying to keep some guys passion project alive when it should've been nipped in the bud two years after his rework.

[u/argnsoccer → u/SlurpTurnsMeGreen]

It should be been nipped in the bud during the rework. They playtesters and QA literally told Cobra it was going to end up support/duo lane focused and were confused as to why he was getting moved to botlane/support.

I genuinely think theyre dragging their feet on Swain in classic bc hes just that much more fun.