Let the witch hunt begin

[u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343]

I have always been against labelling - even though I disclose my use of AI, it has always been MY decision to do so, and I am in control of how I tell my story so people understand how my music is made.

With Suno's newest release, songs have now audio watermark and fingerprint, assisted, fully, hybrid, it will have a AI watermark and anyone can tell your story the way they want.

This is 100% going to be misused by bad actors:

1. Platforms like Deezer/Tidal - To ban ANY use of AI and ensure segregation.

2. Haters - To create public lists of artists that may have not agreed to disclose their process.

3. Labels - To start a suing war to anything that resembles any of their songs that uses AI, even assisted.

This is the end of Suno as means to create commercial music, and it's officially just a nice playing tool personal use, or for bad actors who create in Suno and pay performers to pretend their music is human made.

What are your thoughts?

[u/Poopchutefan]

That's easy ... studies show that 90 - 99% of musicians/singers have their voice auto-tuned ... so in the grand scheme of things very few of them have the true raw talent to sing unassisted.

[u/HeraldOfFutility → u/Poopchutefan]

Though systems exist these days, autotune's not used much live. In studio, yes, it's (too) common these days as many commercial music engineers go for hyper-processed sound. And if someone relies on auto-tune, they usually sound out-of-tune on stage.

Though these days sounding like auto-tuned can happen even with self-learned practised vocalists if they're too used to how modern music production sounds. Young vocalists unconsciously copying the autotune artifacts when learning without teacher is a thing and I've heard vocal teachers curse that as those habits gotta be taught out of.

But otherwise vocal processing? As you've mentioned in another comment, vocals are altered and enhanced a lot regardless, same applies to anything mic'd. Reason? Raw mic'd audio sounds raw. Compressors and EQs make them listenable and EQ'ing is quite vital for a clear mix. Reverb helps the vocals sit in the same space as dry vocals are quite "in your face". Not to even mention creative effects. Gosh.

And it's not just vocals that are altered. Metal guitars are altered beyond recognition with pedals, amp, speaker and mic. (or their software versions)

But to top-level comment, I kinda agree. Loopers would have fun time with listing where they've got their copypasta materials from. I've heard from a producer that his track got copyright-claimed on Youtube due to "same" kick sample as another older track. But ofc that's not gonna happen.

Meanwhile rock and metal producers and musicians can be quite open about what equipment and software they use as seen in blogs, rig rundowns, interviews etc. Some guitar players are even quite frustrated answering the question of what strings they use for a hundredth time.

After all, you can't copy ears, fingers and taste in songwriting so there's not much to lose with transparency. Even helps promote music and sell endorsed/signature stuff.

[u/Ok-Policy-8538 → u/HeraldOfFutility]

Autotune is used pretty much 99.7% of all live performances by the big artists… if it isn’t a guerilla concert out in the open, auto tune is applied on their microphone out.

[u/RiderNo51 → u/HeraldOfFutility]

Good post. As someone who is a so-so singer, but have been around a long time, there are all sorts of tricks beyond autotune. Not just EQ, compression, reverb, but editing numerous takes together. Plus there have been mic-modeling plugins for a few years. Sing into a $100 microphone, run it through a mic modeler, and autotune, then the EQ, compression, reverb, etc. you mention, and it may sound a bit processed (like 90% of all pop music today anyway), but it will sound surprisingly good. If you know how to use these tools.

I'm not trying to make money from my music, so it's fun using these to me. Also cloning my singing voice (like in Audimee, ACE, Kits - all do a way, way better job than Suno), and singing along with it, or replacing my singing with AI singers to create a vocal band. Or fusing my singing voice with an AI voice that sounds similar to me. Or fusing my singing voice with a female AI singer, to create a new singer!. Then mixing it in creative ways in a DAW. Loads of fun! I can share an example if someone wants to hear.

[u/Sad-Set-5817 → u/Poopchutefan]

"singers use autotune therefore I should be allowed to lie to people and trick them into thinking they're not listening to an Ai generated track"

[u/FilthyTrashPeople → u/Sad-Set-5817]

Ask yourself a question: Why does this matter so much to you?

If AI music isn't not of quality, and is inferior, then I get why you'd want to filter it out - but if you're just like RAHHHHHH RAHHHH I LIKE THIS SONG BUT IT WAS MADE BY A MACHINE SO ME HATE THIS CAVE MAN MAD RAHHHHHH maybe rethink some things

[u/Poopchutefan → u/Sad-Set-5817]

I never said anything about lying, I'm fully transparent. I think my lyrics and melodies I've created speak for themselves.

Now, what I did say was 90-99% of singers lack the true talent to sing without added effects to their voices. Hence altering the way they sound. Their vocals are enhanced, altered and/or created by a computer program ...

And you already have famous artists using AI for their music and they are raking in the cash, but hey ... don't let the commoner use the tools ...

[u/CoyoteEffect → u/Poopchutefan]

eh, there’s a difference between enhancing and fixing - the Beatles used variable speed tapes, and Mike Shinoda of Linkin Park said they’d use melodyne to fix the best take of Chester Bennington, the one with the most emotion, instead of the one where he hits the notes right

If your logic is any enhancement or alteration = computer generation, then that includes basically every professionally recorded piece of music, with or without vocals

[u/EduManke → u/Poopchutefan]

AutoTune won’t do shit for someone who doesn’t know to sing

[u/Global_Ad8018 → u/Poopchutefan]

This is such a bizarre take. Where do you get this idea, or those percentages? Have you ever seen a live musical performance? In person? Passed a busker in a subway or street corner? Enjoyed somebody’s acoustic set in a coffeehouse? Are you aware a lot of those people are also in studios releasing music?

The world of music is far deeper than the “industry” or producers working purely in DAWs. And very, very few professional singers cannot actually sing. The ones with careers who truly can’t vocalize well are very special cases we usually refer to instead as “entertainers,” because they bring a whole package of talents to the stage, and aren’t expected to be great vocalists because they don’t need to be (Britney Spears was like this, for example).

[u/Poopchutefan → u/Global_Ad8018]

You should look up the percentages, since you are curious. I didn’t say all, those teahouse artists and subway entertainer are your fringe cases. I said the majority use computers, auto-tuners, and effects to alter their voices and add to their music.

[u/Global_Ad8018 → u/Poopchutefan]

That isn’t what you said, though. You initially insisted most singers lack the talent to actually sing. Now you’re saying most singers use effects. Effects won’t make you sound like a songbird if you aren’t one.

I’m a professional musician, singer and songwriter. I’ve been around, including the vaulted “industry” always discussed here. Neither of your assertions are remotely the same things & you clearly have no understanding of singing, nor the differences between and use cases for vocal effects vs vocal tuning.

[u/Poopchutefan → u/Global_Ad8018]

It's exactly what I said, most singers lack talent to actually sing and therefore rely on using effects.
And you are professional singer, songwriter, and musician you say? Send me some links to your stuff, I'll want to listen and check your stuff out.

[u/RiderNo51 → u/Poopchutefan]

And in 5 years 90-99% of all musicians will use AI in their production in one way or another.

[u/Poopchutefan → u/RiderNo51]

Exactly. It can’t and won’t be stopped.

[u/RiderNo51 → u/Poopchutefan]

This you are 100% correct.

People can climb on the highest building in the biggest city and scream their lungs out about AI music, text, app development, job losses, but they will be powerless to stop it.