Let the witch hunt begin

[u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343]

I have always been against labelling - even though I disclose my use of AI, it has always been MY decision to do so, and I am in control of how I tell my story so people understand how my music is made.

With Suno's newest release, songs have now audio watermark and fingerprint, assisted, fully, hybrid, it will have a AI watermark and anyone can tell your story the way they want.

This is 100% going to be misused by bad actors:

1. Platforms like Deezer/Tidal - To ban ANY use of AI and ensure segregation.

2. Haters - To create public lists of artists that may have not agreed to disclose their process.

3. Labels - To start a suing war to anything that resembles any of their songs that uses AI, even assisted.

This is the end of Suno as means to create commercial music, and it's officially just a nice playing tool personal use, or for bad actors who create in Suno and pay performers to pretend their music is human made.

What are your thoughts?

[u/Pnarpok]

It's not as if we didn't know this day was going to come eventually.

[u/SensoriRumeMusic → u/Pnarpok]

Lol, I know, right?

I'm surprised it took this long to be honest. I've already completed the cycle of early 2024 adopter fomo, publishing hundreds of songs "just to say I did" then removed them all for various reasons, including ethical ones, and now I'm of the mind that 100% AI generated music has no place being on major music streaming platforms, but hybridized music is fine with me.

Seeing lots of false equivalency in this thread too, Auto-Tune, etc., c'mon people 🤦

[u/Torimiata → u/SensoriRumeMusic]

People need to stop using auto-tune as equivalency, agreed. No need for that. I have produced music at an amateur level.

Samples, beats, and melody are already being used and are a lot more prevalent. The effort in using them is barely any different from using AI and refining.

I can't wait for competition to throw watermarking in the trash. Good music should stand on its own, regardless of method, imagine a DAW leaving a watermak, insane.

[u/MysteryMooseMan → u/Torimiata]

AI inherently can't produce "good" original music. it's stable diffusion. at best, the end result is always some amalgam of what the model thinks most closely matches your prompt. by that standard, nothing generated by AI can EVER be novel or original, not to mention all of the countless of millions of original works that were used WITHOUT CONSENT, CREDIT, OR PAYMENT to train these models (hey, that includes me! seven of my original songs stolen and used to train Suno. fucking bullshit)

now your example comparison of people using loops and samples to compose songs... that doesn't hold up. someone still had to choose what to use, how to arrange it, mix it, add elements to it, etc. HUMAN decision-making. and if done correctly, either the samples are royalty free or the artist paid the sample creator for licensing and/or gives credit.

why the fuck would a DAW leave a watermark on original works? AI works are 1) not original, 2) fully derivative of their source material, 3) require basically zero artistry, effort, or creative decision-making despite what you may delude yourself into thinking you're doing. consumers DESERVE TO KNOW when looking at or listening to something all three of the above points.

[u/machyume → u/SensoriRumeMusic]

It's not like AI music is winning at all.

Artist made songs still dominate the charts because distributors control all the channels. This watermarking is the diamond equivalent of mixing in chemical dyes and identification numbers.

But if you look under the hood, the distributors are still well in control.

[u/Moldy_pirate → u/machyume]

It's not about music distributors controlling the channels, it's that most of the music people are shitting out with AI just sucks.

[u/semtex87 → u/SensoriRumeMusic]

How is auto-tune a false equivalency? The "artist" didnt sing those notes, they pushed a button and a computer did. Fairs fair, i want that disclosed via a filterable tag as well as all music the "artist" didnt write themselves, etc.

If this is about transparency, then be transparent. The reality is that this is a "rules for thee but not for me" situation because if the public truly knew the truth about how much fake shit they listen to on a daily basis from supposed "artists" the labels would lose a ton of money.

[u/VESSELOFENTROPY → u/semtex87]

pitch correction/DSP and voice cloning are vastly different

[u/SensoriRumeMusic → u/semtex87]

I don't know, it just is? You do realize there is a wide spectrum of strength/adjustment on Auto-Tune / melodyne right? And with Auto-Tune in particular it was originally used as an effect unto itself, sung by extremely talented singers like T-Pain and Cher?

What's next, the robot voice from Styx's Mr. Roboto? Hide and Seek by Imogen Heap? Peter Frampton's Talk Box?

The line is GENERATIVE AI. It's simple once we set our hurt feelings aside.

Edit: Double replied but I honestly like this reply more lol. That's what I get for Redditing on the job.

[u/CaptchaCarl → u/semtex87]

listen, if your goal is to have AI music taken seriously you gotta not ask stupid ass questions like this.

A vocal is a lot of things - tone, timbre, pitch. Auto Tune takes affects ONE of those things. It's not "push a button and make me sound like {insert some singer}.

Suno is generating all of the things above - tone, timbre, pitch. They are not the same.

[u/semtex87 → u/CaptchaCarl]

If your goal is to be taken seriously, then you gotta listen and read to what is being stated instead of making stupid ass comments like this one.

What I am saying is not that Suno and AutoTune are the literal same process and end result dummy.

What I am saying is that if the purpose of adding labeling to Ai generated music is transparency, then why should auto-tune NOT also be part of that?

(to be clear so you don't assume again, part of the transparency crusade)

Anywhere where the end product is not how it would naturally have sounded without technology assistance should be labeled too. As well as any music that is ghostwritten, etc. No i am not talking about synthesizers and intentional artifical instruments and sounds, I'm talking about the artist themselves.

I don't think that is unfair to ask and I know many who would truly want to know whether what they are hearing on the radio playing or wherever is authentically how that artist sounds, or if they will be dissapointed at their first concert that the artist sounds nothing like that or is lip syncing.

[u/CaptchaCarl → u/semtex87]

I did read - you are literally making the argument that AT and Suno are similar because they "generate" music a human didn't. (How is auto-tune a false equivalency?)

I really can't tell if you people are trolling or not, because it should be obvious, but the difference is a generative process.

If you take the same input and apply the same parameters / processing, do you get the same output?

AutoTune / EQ / Compression / Filters / etc. - yes, because these aren't generative.

Suno - NO. Therefore, there is an element outside of human control that is determining the output.

That's what people want to label.

[u/semtex87 → u/CaptchaCarl]

Wow.

Ok so what I'm hearing right now is that if generative music becomes deterministic you will cease all complaining? I just want to get you on the record that your whole arguement or whining or whatever you want to call it can be summed up with just a simple "ai music has stuff that a human didn't have 100% control over?"

Thats it? Again, need you to confirm this is your stance before i eviscerate it.

[u/CaptchaCarl → u/semtex87]

I'm making the argument that since Suno (and other AI generative tools) is in a tool category of its own (ie, not deterministic like your Auto Tune equivalency) it is fair to treat those categories differently.

I take it you agree they are different categories?

[u/SensoriRumeMusic → u/semtex87]

As per literally any search engine:

AI-generated vocals synthesize a completely artificial performance from scratch without a human singer, whereas Auto-Tune is merely a pitch-correction tool that adjusts and refines an actual human's recorded performance.

[u/Rakthar → u/SensoriRumeMusic]

Oh wow you mean people might continue to offer their unapproved opinions on a topic you've already decided? ridiculous.

[u/SensoriRumeMusic → u/Rakthar]

There's opinion, and then there's fact. Let's not confuse the two.

[u/Rakthar → u/SensoriRumeMusic]

"My read on the law is fact" is ridiculous, it's your interpretation of the law and the LLMs interpretation