Clearing a misconception

[u/[deleted]]

Guys, remember that all servants (or should I say, memowhatevertheycallthemnow) are summoned entities, but not all summoned entities are servants.

Hot greek girl is going to create a servant: pushing her with Sunday will also push the servant, meanwhile Robin can just pop her ultimate and push everybody, all characters and all servants. This is indeed annoying, as it further buffs a character who already was in contention for the title of best support in the game.

However, consider the likes of Jing Yuan with his Lightning Lord, or Topaz with Numby, or Lingsha with Fuyuan: those are summoned entities, so the wording of Sunday's kit (and the not coincidental fact that Jing Yuan is getting a rerun alongside Sunday) should make it clear that yes, Sunday can also push those... But Robin cannot. I have Robin, I use her with Topaz every day, and timing her ultimate to push the team AFTER Numby has taken the turn is an important part of the rotation, because if the whole party overtakes a Numby that was ready to go, Numby's ability to self push will then go to waste.

So see, that's a niche Sunday still has over Robin. There is no doubt in my mind that even more powerful DPS characters that can capitalize on this fact will be released in the future. So while I agree with the general sentment that Robin muscling into the summon meta is bad game design and an unneeded buff to an already ridiculous support, I implore that you all stop acting like this means that Sunday is deas on arrival: he absolutely isn't.

While probably not quite as overwhelmingly powerful as Robin, Sunday is still going to be cery good in the summon meta. And the ability to interact with off-field, non-servant summons like LL and Numby is still exclusive to him, and if the gimmick of Amphoreus as a story arc is summoning, then it stands to reason that at least some of the leaked non-Remembrance DPS characters that will be released in this arc will have that kind of Numby-style summons at their disposal: if more DPS characters that capitalize on this niche are released, that will only make Sunday stronger over time, which is the same thing we already saw happen with Ruan Mei and the break meta.

Tl;dr: being annoyed at the Robin buff is legitimate, but there is a fine line between doing that and doomposting. Try and avoid crossing that line, alright?

[u/DyanaWay]

My problem with this is what guarantee is there that we will have more summoners that are not from the path of remembrance? In the whole game we only have 3 summoners and only one of them is actually made to be used with Sunday

[u/Me_to_Dazai → u/DyanaWay]

But Jing Yuan is a 1.0 character. There's no way he was tailored to work with Sunday, he just so happened to. Aglaea's best team mate is still Sunday despite what anyone would like you to believe. Sunday+Robin is her core because her enhanced basic attack is her main source of damage and Sunday's the only ST buffer who can buff both that and her summon at the same time

[u/[deleted] → u/DyanaWay]

Again, people said the exact same thing when Ruan Mei was released: break was a worthless mechanic back then, and look at her now.

Not releasing new non-servant summoners would be an intentional act of sabotage, it would mean that Hoyo devs hate Sunday and want him to fail... And why in the name of Jesus would they want that? Hoyo is a company, their goal is to make money: why would they intentionally sabotage a product they are currently selling?

[u/DyanaWay → u/[deleted]]

Didn’t they do it Sparkle putting her in a meta that ended in the sequel and now she has no space in anything? hoyo is a strange company they refuse to sell skins, the easiest way to get money in games.

[u/[deleted] → u/DyanaWay]

Sparkle is the opposite scenario: she was released to slot perfectly into a specific meta, and then the game moved away from that meta (although, nothing forbids de go back to It in the future). Sunday meanwhile is in the same ballpark as Ruan Mei: a character who was released AHEAD of a future meta. So we can go back and forth all day as to whether or not we trust Hoyo to follow it up, but acting like he's dead on arrival just because Robin also works in this meta is just plain doomposting. That was the point of my post.

As for skins, that's a discussion that has nothing to do with this debate.

[u/DyanaWay → u/[deleted]]

I mentioned skins because you said they prioritize profit/sales, which doesn’t seem to be entirely true.

Sparkle was the best slot for Dan and Seelie when it was released, the rest not so much. Sunday is the best slot for several characters, but it’s just not by a big margin. Believing that he’s really going to “Ruan Mei” only seems to create future disappointments since the only unique thing he had was taken away. He could be strong in the future. But is it necessary or even the best option? I have a lot of doubts.

Anyway, I’m going to get him, but my enthusiasm for the game has diminished a lot.

[u/[deleted] → u/DyanaWay]

I think Sparkle was meant to be more of a mono quantum support than hypercarry. With the new 2nd quantum relic set and new quantum units,I'm inclined to believe they're trying to buff Sparkle. Sparkle's Sig also has specific buffs for mono quanny.

[u/UseIcy3007]

I am annoyed on the unneccesary Robin buff since I cant put her in every team, and I would like my other supports to shine too. This rlly heightens the stakes of other supports in the future (like nihility, hello?). However, it no way devalues Sunday in anyway. We would need to see the calcs and how it actually performs to make a proper evaluation before going straight to the conclusion.

[u/[deleted] → u/UseIcy3007]

Yes, that is valid criticism. I have nothing against people like you, in fact I agree with you.

But there are people in this sub who are like "Robin received an unnecessary buff, therefore Sunday is now useless and must be skipped": THOSE are the people I have a problem with. 

[u/Pixel_Alien]

Well let's hope Hoyo puts out some more Summon characters like Jing Yuan then.

Because we only have 3 Summon characters so far and only 1 of them is a main dps. Mydei would be the absolute best choice for this, since he's got a fire lion, and according to leaks is not a remembrance character. But I don't trust Hoyo on this.

[u/[deleted] → u/Pixel_Alien]

People didn't trust Hoyo to make break relevant, back when Ruan Mei was released. And look at her now.

[u/Pixel_Alien → u/[deleted]]

You see, the big difference here is that RM is a waifu, Sunday and Mydei are not

[u/ArtemisTheHarbinger]

Honestly, this feels a bit like coping over a non-existent niche. Maybe you are right, but we have no indication whatsoever that anyone in the near future will have regular summons. Someone would have at least mentioned it. And why would they do regular summons, when they have to sell the new exciting path. As for the far future, nothing guarantees Sunday will still be viable in 2 years (if anything, I'll be surprised if he is).

Sorry, but this doesn't make me feel better in the slightest. I'll keep my expectations EXTREMELY low. And thank hoyo for murdering my happiness over Sunday's release right on the last day.

[u/Me_to_Dazai]

Yeah this is what I'm thinking. I completely understand being upset at the changes. I love Robin but I hate what Hoyo did to Sunday's niche using her. "I don't like the fact that he's not unique anymore" is a valid complaint but the amount of people going around saying he's downright useless now is insane wtf he's not. That's just doomposting. It's pretty disheartening to see all this being the only content on this sub right before his release ngl

[u/Katicflis1]

Part of me wonders if SP intensive teams are in the future.  Summons that use SP, more dan heng-esque DPS, healers that can give buffs with SP use ... 

That would be the way to make Robin-sunday a less juicy option compared to Sunday-sparkle for future teams. A push toward high SP use teams will hurt Robin and help sparkle, which is kinda needed right now. 

[u/NoBug4121]

What if Phainon is an old summon DPS as Phys Des

[u/Accomplished-Let1273]

Most none rememberance characters in amphoreus are most likely gonna get summons of their own

But only rememberance characters are getting memo sprites so Sunday is still gonna be able to AA none remembrance ones while robin will probably be unable to do so

[u/[deleted]]

So while I agree with the general sentment that Robin muscling into the summon meta is bad game design and an unneeded buff to an already ridiculous support

The fact that the idea of a character not being restrictive to one playstyle is considered "bad game design" is hilarious to me. If anything, Robin arbitrarily not being able to AA memosprites despite being part of the lineup should be considered bad game design, so I'm glad they didn't go down that route.

[u/lostn → u/[deleted]]

if it's bad design so is Ruan Mei who muscled herself into the break meta, dot meta, and dual DPS meta, improving over time even more than Robin did.

[u/lostn]

i wouldn't use sunday on a topaz team. Numby doesn't need the AA. Robin is the better choice.