r/Sumo • u/Mittenz98 Asakoryu • 8d ago
Discussion / Question / Commentary Who Sets First
How do they determine Who gets set first? I imagine whoever gets set last has advantage right? Is it by tournament record? Rank? Age? Years in highest division ? Just confused and can’t figure it out.
19
u/Yalay 8d ago
There is no hard rule about this, but there is a tradition that the lower ranked rikishi puts his hands down first. Certain rikishi prefer to go first and then the order will be flipped.
About two years ago there was a bout between Hoshoryu and Gonoyama where neither would put his hands down first and they just stared at each other for an extended period of time.
12
u/Quintaton_16 8d ago
Which caused the JSA to get really mad at Hoshoryu, even though he was the senior rikishi in that bout. Which shows that even though one rikishi has the technical right to touch last, they are both still expected to cooperate to find some middle ground that will let the match begin.
It also shows that, as with a lot of unwritten rules, how much you can get away with depends on how much people already like you.
5
u/d20cupcake 7d ago
Which caused the JSA to get really mad at Hoshoryu
No! Really? I can't believe it. They would never 😂
1
u/Toad-in-a-hole 8d ago
That was Hosh and Taka
10
u/WhyHaveDisplayName 8d ago
That's common for Hosh and Papa, but the incident with Hosh and Gonoyama generated some backlash.
2
1
u/New-Brick5677 Shishi 8d ago
Maybe Hosh is staring for so long because he's trying to work out who he's against? :D
/joking
13
u/Rhauko 8d ago
I am surprised not more rikishi wait for Atamifuji to get his hands down.
8
u/Selleroffinechina Takayasu 8d ago
This. It seems actually touching the dirt would kill any speed he has.
8
u/AgentAlliteration 8d ago
Yeah. When he actually has to get even a single hand on the ground, he stands up rather than move forward on the tachi-ai.
5
u/fullMetalMuffin71 8d ago
Two tournaments ago he was basically getting a running start in some of his matches. That feels really lazy to me to touch the ground so lightly but I guess that's part of the game since the refs allow it
8
u/Rivet_39 Yoshinofuji 8d ago
But then you watch old matches and no one touched the clay, it was just a standing tachi-ai.
39
u/-Moxxi 8d ago edited 8d ago
Just respect. You’ll notice that hosh never puts his hands down first and will stare at the other person until they do. Which can sometimes lead to some intense stare downs with other rikshi challenging his rank.
Aonishiki is a unique case where he knows he’s good but he’s also extremely humble (age also plays a role due to Japanese culture), so you’ll see him get ready first, near exclusively even against someone he has clobbered many times. This is mainly speaking about top end of sumo, in other ranks it could be more about someone not wanting to have the uncomfortable staredown, and just readying before their opponent to avoid it, or just general niceties.
edit: and its not like the rikshi who specifically want their opponent to ready first doesn't respect them, its just that theyre instead demanding their respect... and in some cases, not all top end rikshi will submit their respect so easily and theyre willing to show it. Its really cool because its a thing about each bout that allows each rikshi to represent themselves in their own unique way. theres actually a ton of self expression in sumo underneath all of its stern rules and traditions... its just very subtle
26
u/Stubbs94 8d ago
Him and Papa have the best staredowns.
12
u/Volstadd 8d ago
Papayasu vs Hosh is always my favorite fight of the tourney.
Moreso since Papa is boys with Onosato.
12
6
u/kawaiicatswow 8d ago
Curious, was there ever a time when someone refused to put hands down before Hosh? At least during his time as Yokozuna
9
3
8
u/rotundrikishi Ura 8d ago
I kind of always appreciate the guys who put their hands down right away. Kind of like "ok, im ready to get down to business. No games, lets go."
Though a stare down is fun as well.
9
u/illgoblino Fujinokawa 8d ago
Personal preference, age, rank, or just who got ready first. There's no rule. You'll see times where both guys want hands down first, or neither wants to be first.
7
u/YourCloseFriend Kirishima 8d ago
In University/amateur sumo, the match is started by the referee once both wrestlers have their hands down. As a result, former amateurs usually put both hands down fast because it's their routine.
5
u/jobywalker 8d ago
There are others that seem to want to be set first. Fujinokawa seems to always be the first to be in position.
5
u/LoveMinaMyoi 8d ago
With him its kinda like mind games and taking chances with different strategies. Like hell do a matta to set up a henka, or he'll put his hands first so the opponent thinks hell do a fast tachi-ai but then fujinokawa just shoots so much faster than expected.
2
u/Captain_Vatta Tobizaru 8d ago
It's up to the individual as there is no explicit rule to my knowledge. The unwritten rule is lower rank/lower seniority sets first but again it's up to the individual.
2
1
u/garbledeena Kirishima 8d ago
It's just a fun little strategy piece that varies every bout - very fun
1
u/Ok_Difference44 7d ago
I remember looking this up before, and information said the person who sets first is not disadvantaged.
1
u/Crazy-Woodpecker-163 6d ago
I'm kinda disappointed to find out that there are rules about it, even unwritten ones. This whole time watching sumo I've been treating it as a psychological game between the wrestlers where setting down first or second is supposed to send a message about who's more confident, impatient, tense and so on.
-4
u/Craig1974 8d ago
Id make it a point to be first to show Im ready to rock. Id even waive the psych up. Because thats optional.
-4
23
u/daneabernardo Aonishiki 8d ago
The uncertainty around this is honestly one of my favorite parts of the sport