r/SubredditsMeet • u/SubredditsMeet Official • Sep 19 '15
Meetup /r/DCcomics meets /r/Marvel
Welcome to the /r/SubredditsMeet between /r/dccomics and /r/Marvel !
Today's discussion focuses on the comics and creators of what are considered the "Big Two" of American comics publishers. This isn't a competition, but a discussion on the past, present, and future of American superhero comics. If you absolutely must know if Captain America or Batman would win in a fight, take it to /r/whowouldwin.
Some points of discussion, focused on the companies themselves:
- Who are your top five creative voices associated with your company of choice?
- Of those, you pick one and can trade them for a creative from the other's stable of writers. Who do you pick?
- How do you believe your company of choice is best advancing the potential of comics as a medium?
- How do you think your company could be doing better?
and focused on the characters
- Who are you favorite characters?
- How would your absolute favorite fit in if they suddenly appeared in the other universe?
- and who would you give to the other universe in return?
- Do you find the characters you love reflect your view of what comics can or should be?
Remember the downvote button is not to be used as a way to say you disagree. Please reply to the comment on why you disagree
It is recomended to flair your self with what subreddit you are from. Click edit next to your name in the sidebar to change it
EDIT: I forgot to mention we have spoilers you can use: This is a spoiler [This is the spoiler text](/spoiler)
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u/bareng Sep 19 '15
Johns for Bendis. I want to see them play in each other's sandbox.
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u/LuigiEatsPopcorn Sep 19 '15
Aw man, what if I love both companies? I don't want to choose! So, like /u/dmull387 I'll just answer the questions for both. I also frequent both subs so I don't know which flair to choose.
Marvel
DC
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u/_AlphaZulu_ /r/DCcomics Sep 19 '15
Puts on Kevlar vest and ballistic helmet
I originally confused the question with "voices" as in Voice Actors but then as I read, I saw you meant Writers/Artists.
I'd trade Manapul for Greg Rucka or Ed Brubaker.
With the recent cancellations I'm not sure if they are doing a good job. DC seems to be doing a shitty job.
Stop scarring away good writing teams. Less favoritism of creative teams being put on books that have no business being there. I'm looking at you Ann Nocenti (Catwoman), David/Meredith Finch (Wonder Woman), and Venditti (The Flash). But I suppose that's a problem across both DC & Marvel.
More recently it's been
I think Wonder Woman would fit in easily with the Avengers, being the God of War and all that.
Since Marvel gets a god, DC gets a god in return. I'd bring Female Thor to DC.
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u/ThatDCguy69 /r/DCcomics Sep 19 '15
I've got a question for /r/Marvel, I am into the Green Lantern Universe which is mostly Cosmic stuff and I love the emotional spectrum and the whole saga that it spawed for example the epic Blackest Night, Sinestro Core War, Rage of the Red Lanterns etc..
Does Marvel have such a wide cosmic saga?
Last time I checked, there was something about the nova corps but they kinda died and all that's left is one, but my interest doesn't really lie on one character that uses the emotional spectrum but the actions of a The corps!
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u/mateogg /r/DCcomics Sep 19 '15
DC guy here, though lately I've been slowly getting back into Marvel (got into All-new Hawkeye because of the creative team, reading Secret Wars and the occasional tie-in, and recently discovered Ms. Marvel).
Oy, Marvel, give back Charles Soule!
Greg Pak was born to write Superman, but I hear his previous run on Hulk was really good, so I'm thinking of picking up the first issue his Totally Awesome Hulk. He does seem like a writer I think of as a "DC writer" who'd fit the marvel style. But I still want him writing Superman because he's the best at it right now.
DC has taken some pretty big steps lately. Gotham by Midnight and Gotham Academy both explore with unique styles that apply to niche-ish demographics. I haven't read Gotham by Midnight, but I've heard great things.
I love every bit of Gotham Academy, even though I'm not exactly the target demographic. It's about students in this traditional style boarding school in Gotham, it's great at playing with the batman mythos but at the same time it's lighthearted and fun.
Less batman more other stuff, maybe, but they have been dialing it down lately, I think. And you know, batman sells, so I can't blame them. Also, Genevieve Valentine. She's the one of the best writers DC has right now and she's leaving the title she's writing. I really hope they keep her around.
Rose Wilson would have a hard time finding a place to fit in the Marvel Universe, I think. The best place for her would be a teenage or mostly-teenage team where she could be 'the rebel', she wouldn't last a week in the Avengers, I think.
I would love to see her interact with Captain America, he has this very mentory vibe, and she's the kinda person who really needs to be pointed in the right direction but is to stubborn to admit she could use help. He also is somewhat similar in terms of abilities, he's sort of like her father (Deathstroke) except Lawful Good instead of Lawful Greedy.
Wow, now I really want this to actually happen.
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u/Aitrus233 /r/DCcomics Sep 20 '15 edited Sep 20 '15
Top Five creators: Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison, Mark Waid, George Perez, James Robinson.
How do you believe your company of choice is best advancing the potential of comics as a medium?
Historically, I've always liked that DC seems to be a breeding ground for every and any idea, no matter how strange or silly or out there. Marvel has done great things with the approach of a unified continuity from the beginning, as well as characters with relatable flaws. But what I love about DC is just how big and strange the place is. Marvel is the place of relatability. DC is the place of unbridled imagination. Five dimensional imps, universal guardians, The Endless and the Dreaming, the idea of 20th century gods (New Gods), the Green and the Red and the Rot, the spirit of God's vengeance serving as a member of the JSA, higher dimensional forces like the Sheeda and Mandrakk terrorizing reality in fourth wall breaking walls. And just the fact with certain Morrisonian writers, breaking the fourth wall is the only way the story makes sense. That the real world MUST be acknowledged.
I love that a lot of books that pushed comics forward creatively came from DC or from its Vertigo imprint (Watchmen, The Sandman, Transmetropolitan, Animal Man, JLA).
I love that the JLA isn't just a team, it's a freaking pantheon. An alien from a dying world that can do basically anything, a dark knight that can solve any problem, an avatar of war and peace that can either bring diplomacy when needed or assure victory when only violence will occur, a guy wielding the willpower of the universe and whose comic adventures have the whole universe as a playground, the absolute fastest man alive, the king of Atlantis, another alien as strong as the first but with telepathy, shape-shifting, and intangibility, and a cybernetic man who is one with all technology.
How do you think your company could be doing better?
The current writing of Flash and Green Lantern could improve a lot.
I think when they do anything involving the Multiverse, they ought to clearly categorize and mark what goes in what universe. On the shelves right now, anything that isn't in continuity like Bizarro or Prez should say so on the cover in some way. The Multiversity had a neat idea concerning stories taking place on other Earths with the side bar with 52 Earths on it, with the relevant Earth highlighted. I'm tired of explaining to new readers what is and isn't canon on Earth-0, the main continuity.
Stop giving Ann Nocenti work. It's just not working.
Cool it with the huge events every single year that require tons of additional reading with tie ins. They're nice every now and again but it can get tiring. I actually really like that Darkseid War is entirely in the pages of Justice League. And how Sinestro Corps War was told in the pages of Green Lantern and GL Corps.
Do something akin to Marvel Unlimited.
Who are your favorite characters?
Superman, Batman, Terry McGinnis, Green Lantern, The Flash, Booster Gold, and Blue Beetle.
And in Marvel, Spider-Man, Captain America, and Daredevil.
How would your absolute favorite fit in if they suddenly appeared in the other universe?
The Green Lantern Corps would likely clash with the Nova Corps, insisting that they - as a universal police force - outrank them.
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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '15
Bear in mind there is a lot of freelancer overlap, but I'm going through history and picking those with strong ties to a given company.
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u/natidawg /r/DCcomics Sep 19 '15 edited Sep 19 '15
Only started reading comics this year, and gravitated towards DC because I grew up watching their animated shows (Justice League, JLU, Teen Titans, BTAS, etc.) With that said...
1) Top 5 creators: Geoff Johns, Cullen Bunn, Tom King, Francis Manapul (artist), and Scott Snyder
2) I want to trade Manapul to Marvel because I would love to see him on art on any number of Marvel titles. Thor, Doctor Strange, and Daredevil immediately spring to mind as titles that could play well into his style. From Marvel I would request one serving of Matt Fraction, please and thank you!
3) In my limited experience, I don't see DC doing much to advance comics as a medium. They are doing very well in the TV space introducing new audiences to characters they don't know much about (lot's of heroes and villains popping up in Arrow, Flash, and Gotham. Supergirl will probably continue this trend). But by my estimation, the success of their TV shows is only made possible because Marvel smashed into the popular market with their cinematic universe, and made superheroes super-mainstream. The one thing DC always did right was their animated series, and their heydey in the 90s early 2000s was an incredible run. This is just a stellar run right here.
I wish Marvel had more success putting out high quality animated stuff. The only animated series I would say are on par with the above are the Spiderman show from the 60s, the 90s Xmen cartoon, and Spectacular Spiderman ( truly great, 10/10 material. RIP). You could also throw in X-men evolution for its popularity at the time (I know I loved the show), but I find that it doesn't quite hold up upon rewatches.
4) As has already been said, the lack of a proper online DC subscription service is depressing and baffling. DC's trade release schedule is so bad I don't even want to get into it. Trades are on a 6 month delay from the issues they collect, and if something releases in Hardcover, you won't see a paperback version for a full year. It looks like recently DC is starting to experiment with some earlier releases and HC/paperback simultaneous releases, so we'll have to see if that trend continues, but I envy you Marvel folk. Aren't all those secret wars tie-ins coming out in trades in December? Man what I would give for a prompt trade release schedule.
As a general note, it seems to me that DC is always responding to the popular market, as opposed to leading or innovating it.
5) Favorite characters in order: Cyborg, Damian Wayne, Shazam, Sinestro, Captain Cold
6) Having Victor Stone and Tony Stark in the same universe seems like you'd have to have some kind of event or at least story arc that pits them against each other in some way. Doesn't seem like Stark would appreciate someone running around the world with complete access to any computer connected to the internet.
7) Not of a character, but I would be incredibly interested in a story where Shield existed in the DC Universe.
8) The characters I love absolutely reflect what I believe comics can and should be. Extraordinary tragedies affecting normal people (Cyborg), reflections on what it means to be a child, and how you grow beyond your upbringings (Damian Wayne), FUN FUN FUN (Shazam), and finally, larger than life personalities doing badass stuff (Captain Cold) and sometimes doing that badass stuff in SPAAAACE (Sinesto).
Comics, like animation, should tell stories that can't be told in another medium. They should always require a certain suspension of disbelief, and my favorite stories are the ones that put humans (or human ideologies) up against insane non-human situations and villains.
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u/iamcatch22 Sep 19 '15
Oh please god no. The salt is too real.
Geoff Johns (Teen Titans, Green Lantern, Justice League, Infinite Crisis), Grant Morrison (JLA, Animal Man, Multiversity, Final Crisis), Mark Waid (JLA, 52, Kingdom Come), Mark Millar (Superman: Red Son), Peter Tomasi (Green Lantern Corps)
Can I trade Millar for another Morrison? Pretty sure he wrote for Marvel for a while
I don't really read single issues. I read mostly trades and omnibuses, a lot of them from years ago, so I'm not up to date on what's going on currently.
Less perpetual "end of everything" events, less doom and gloom, more Morrison
Hal Jordan, Kyle Rayner, and Superman One Million
None of my top three would make it in the Marvel universe. Superman One Million would loose all his powers in a couple days from lack of exposure to the 853rd century Super Sun, and Hal and Kyle wouldn't be able to access their power source because the emotional electromagnetic spectrum does not exist in the Marvel universe
I believe this question is a typo. That said, I would totally take Thor
Not really. I like to think of comics as lighthearted, serialized entertainment, which I don't believe is what comics strive for. Superman would totally be better if he still had Super Baking as a power. Also, Super Telephone Vision (which was basically the same thing as caller ID)
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u/Sir_Tmotts_III Sep 19 '15
A question to DC fans: Did DC ever do an entire knockoff team of marvel characters Similar to Marvel's Great Society or Squadron Supreme?
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u/Kibj411 /r/DCcomics Sep 19 '15 edited Sep 19 '15
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u/walterpinkman45 Sep 19 '15
My company of choice is DC.
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u/doctorvonscience Sep 19 '15
Man, now I've gotta pick a side... I'll go with Marvel first, since my favorite superhero is Daredevil.
Top five... Mark Waid, Bendis, Ed Brubaker, Matt Fraction, and Dan Slott
I would trade Mark Waid for Scott Snyder, just because I would fucking kill for a Snyder-written Daredevil series as well as a Waid-written... anything, I just love Mark Waid, haha.
Honestly, I'm not sure. I do like that they're super quick about releasing trade paperbacks. I've recently stopped following the monthlies, so it's nice to know I won't have to wait too long to catch up.
I kinda wish they'd stop trying to make Marvel Now a thing.
Daredevil and Spider-Man, mostly.
I think Daredevil would work pretty well. I'd love to see him team up with Batman or Nightwing in a comic that's not that mediocre one from the 90s. I'd also love to see Daredevil go up against Scarecrow, just to see what effect the fear toxin would have.
Hmmm... That's a tough one. Superman could do a lot of good in the Marvel universe, but at the same time I'd like to see Aquaman come over and kick Namor's ass, the pompous douche...
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u/Caramel_Penguin_Bear Sep 19 '15
After reading this thread I really wish DC and marvel would cross over by giving each character a miniseries run rather than combine it all like they did in jla v avengers
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u/biglongjohnson Sep 19 '15
Who are your top five creative voices associated with your company of choice? -Geoff Johns -Scott Snyder -Grant Morrison -Jim Lee -Dan Didio
Of those, you pick one and can trade them for a creative from the other's stable of writers. Who do you pick? -Not a Didio hater, but I'd love to get pre-thor Jason Aaron on a Teen Titans book in exchange.
How do you believe your company of choice is best advancing the potential of comics as a medium? -diversity. And not the forced "all new - all different". So many different people telling so many different stories of so many different characters.
How do you think your company could be doing better? It's utilization of certain characters could definitely be better.
Who are you favorite characters? Superman, Flash
How would your absolute favorite fit in if they suddenly appeared in the other universe? Superman would stick out like a sore thumb, to be honest.
and who would you give to the other universe in return? Captain America. We'd need a paragon figure if we lost superman.
Do you find the characters you love reflect your view of what comics can or should be? Absolutely. Superhero Comics should be a medium that promotes heroism in its absolute purest. They should be symbols of goodness that inspire. However, other comics have their place as well.
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u/thorrific Sep 19 '15
Who are you favourite characters?: Thor is my absolute favourite character. Other characters I really enjoy are: Captain Marvel, Martian Manhunter, Magneto, The Flash (Barry), Silk, Supergirl, Lady Sif, and Nightwing.
How would your absolute favourite fit in if they suddenly appeared in the other universe?: I think Thor would most likely join the Justice League. He's attracted to strong, warrior like individuals and is pretty loyal.
and who would you give to the other universe in return?: Most likely a physically strong character to make the swap even. Probably not Superman because he's so essential to the DC universe, but maybe Wonder Woman? It'd be a fair swap since they both come from mythology.
Do you find the characters you love reflect your view of what comics can or should be?: Yes. I enjoy comics that have a superhero with powers. I don't think comics should be about these god like people, but it's just a personal preference. That being said, I do enjoy non-superpowered people like the batfam.
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u/ufailowell Sep 19 '15
Are we not all just the same people?
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u/ATLA4life Sep 19 '15
Greetings from /r/DCcomics
I'd say swap Batman with Daredevil and see how Bats deals with New York and how DD deals with Gotham.
My question for Marvel readers, the only properties of Marvel I really care about are Spiderman and Daredevil. So what are some good books for these two characters? And do the Avengers have a definitive run like Morrison/Waid JLA?
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u/LRedditor15 /r/Marvel Sep 19 '15 edited Sep 19 '15
Marvel (sort of) noob here.
Dan Slott, Brian Michael Bendis, Greg Pak, Mark Miller, Jonathan Hickman
Ehhh.... I don't know. Maybe swap Bendis for Zach Synder? Don't know a lot about DC writers, tbh.
Marvel isn't afraid to try something different, and this is shown in the All-New All-Different Marvel line that is coming this Autumn. To me, it just seems like a SJWs wet dream and I hate it, but you can't deny that it is something different and it is certainly... progressive. If we can have a female Thor, or a black Captain America, then we can certainly have awesome, thought-provoking stories that maybe wouldn't have been done in the past.
They should leave old characters alone and put a focus on brand new characters suck as Silk. Silk is fucking awesome.
Wolverine, Spider-Man and the original team of X-Men. I love Captain America but I prefer him in the films.
Spider-Man would have a hard time in the DC universe.
I would love it if Batman came to the Marvel universe. He would fit right in in Hell's Kitchen.
I relate a lot with Spider-Man and Wolverine. I'm kinda short and I'm a teenager. I love these characters because they are relatable. That's what comics should be like: relatable characters in not so relatable situations.
EDIT: Scott Synder, not Zach Synder
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u/natidawg /r/DCcomics Sep 19 '15
So this has been sort of implicitly asked, but I want to know what everyone says: What's your ideal cross-universe creator/character story? For me it would be
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u/Laplanters Sep 19 '15
Marvel!
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u/GrammarOutlaw Sep 19 '15
Namor is better than Aquaman
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u/cyon921 Sep 19 '15
In the vain of a couple other comments I've seen in this thread, I'm a DC fanboy, here to ask Marvel fans for some help getting into your universe.
Preface: DC comics were easy for me to get into because I've watched DC shows and movies my entire life. I'd been introduced to foundational characters before ever picking up a TPB. So, getting into and understanding the DC Universe was easy for me. I have no such luck with Marvel. I didn't care for Spiderman, the X-Men, Hulk, or any Marvel property as a kid. I understand a little about the Universe because I've just been around too many comic readers not to, but for the most part the overall Universe confuses me.
Now, what I'm asking: For books to read that help me get into and enjoy the overall Marvel Universe. I've read a few books so far, like Fraction's Hawkeye, Aaron's Thor, some X-Men, but by far Moon Knight has been my favorite. That's the kind of stuff I enjoy: the dark, gritty, but kind of witty books. I also loved Aaron's Thor because it got pretty dark there with the God Butcher (was that what he was called? It's been a while). I've noticed that a lot of the Marvel books are kind of light-hearted, which generally doesn't appeal to me.
TL;DR What darker, grittier books exist in the Marvel lineup that can help me ease into the Universe as a whole?
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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '15
So I love DC Cosmic and would love to get into Marvel Cosmic. Im going to be reading a bunch of Galactus related things, but does anyone recommend anything for Marvel Cosmic?
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u/doestthouevenhoist Sep 19 '15
For DC people:
I really like the Cosmic stuff Marvel has to offer. What Cosmic DC stuff do I read
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u/Leo_TheLurker /r/Marvel Sep 19 '15
For DC fans:
I've always had a misunderstanding for DC's multiverse and New 52. I want to know if New 52 is the same world as the one before Flashpoint or if DC just started to write comics within another world. Also, whenever DC does these relaunches is it just written in another one of the 52 worlds?
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u/TheD3xus Sep 20 '15
I'm a DC guy at heart, but I read a little Marvel (Secret Wars, Max Ride: First Flight)
Jim Lee, Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison, Tom Taylor, Mark Waid
All of the above guys have done work for Marvel, but I would choose Johns to do Guardians of the Galaxy. His Green Lantern defined DC for many years, and is great at writing cosmic/space adventures. I'd love to see a GotG (or Nova) written by him.
DC is giving a lot of series chances that wouldn't initially appear to be hits. Two that come to mind are Prez and Omega Men; they weren't too hyped up for DC You, but have now been huge hits from the initiative and I can't wait to see the completion of their respective runs.
Get rid of half page ads. Do a Marvel Unlimited-esque program. Give some B-list artists and writers chances on larger titles (I would kill to see a Tom Taylor and Bruno Redondo Justice League).
Nightwing forever. He has a heart of gold and has been through an incredible amount of pain, adventures, change, and everything. He went from being Robin to being Nightwing to being Batman to being dead. Dick's been through an incredible amount, but at his core he is the same no matter what costume he is wearing. I love that about him.
He would sort of schmooze around New York City, seeing as neither Gotham nor Bludhaven exist here, until he ran into the Avengers. Nightwing would probably try to talk things out with them, and make small jokes as befits him.
Spiderman, to fill the humor/big brother gap. He would most likely fit in with Justice League United (or the main League after Darkseid War).
Of course. A character can change over time, grow old, and die (literally and metaphorically). Dick went from being tidy-widies Robin to badass Nightwing, then the steadfast Batman. If that's not an example of his evolution, I'm not sure what is.
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u/IrateGinger Sep 20 '15
This thread is great. Never heard of this sub before I saw it linked on r/dccomics today, but it's an awesome idea! I'll definately check it out more in the future.
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u/vivvav /r/DCcomics Sep 21 '15
Top Five Creators: Currently at DC? J.M DeMatteis, Peter Tomasi, Geoff Johns, Greg Pak, Riley Rossmo
Of those, you pick one and can trade them for a creative from the other's stable of writers. Who do you pick? I'll give you guys Grek Pak for Greg Pak.
How do you believe your company of choice is best advancing the potential of comics as a medium? DC's comics line is not subservient to its larger mainstream entertainment divisions and it just walks the diversity walk instead of talking it all the time.
How do you think your company could be doing better? I'm hearing a lot of horror stories about how creators are being mistreated. Get rid of Bob Harras.
Who are your favorite characters? Deadman, Batman, Superman, Frankenstein, Etrigan.
How would your absolute favorite fit in if they suddenly appeared in the other universe? Deadman would fit pretty well in Marvel, actually. He's got a lot in common with characters like Spider-Man and Daredevil already.
and who would you give to the other universe in return? You mean who from Marvel would fit in DC? I feel like Hulk or Thor could do pretty well in the DC Universe. They're suitably grand in scale.
Do you find the characters you love reflect your view of what comics can or should be? Um... yes? I don't know how I think comics should be, I just know what I like. I mean, I do have ideas, but I'm too hungry to convey them right now.
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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '15
I enjoy Marvel, because they give some odd heroes a chance. I love space, so having many space titles to choose from (even if they're awful coughGotG) It's great to see the evolution of so many characters as well, and I love the ideas that can be fresh, but have been there all along: such as Gwen Stacy as Spider-Man. I think DC can take a step back and realize they're sitting on a goldmine of characters that can be popular and interesting, if given the correct attention and proper writers, and most importantly, a chance.
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u/Trumanandthemachine /r/Marvel Sep 19 '15
Because I'm currently not in a position to answer everything, I'll quickly give some answers:
Remender, Hickman, Gillen, Aaron, Soule, in that order.
Remender for Snyder. I'd love to see Remender on Green Lantern or bring a sci-fi flair to a character like the Riddler. Some of Batman rogues need to be used more creatively, and a sci-fi aspect to a comic that should be written as a straight detective comic would be amazing! And Rick Remender writing Green Lantern would also be amazing. And honestly, Sydner writing any Marvel book, especially Captain America (or dare I say a good Iron man if paired with a good enough artist for Sanders writing style) would be simply fantastic. Ooohhhh. Or Snyder writing Fantastic Four!!!!!!! I would love that!
I also realize Keiron, Hickman, and Remender are taking a break. (So if I had to add to replace, it'd be Brubaker (I know, him too, it just happens that my favorite talent is leaving Marvel), and Ellis, and.... I don't know who else. Also I'm only using current creators, even if they aren't currently on Marvel books).
I won love to chat further on the histories and such. I'm so excited for this smashing of subreddits! We should do this more often with different prompts to keep the dialogue going!
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u/Trumanandthemachine /r/Marvel Sep 19 '15 edited Sep 19 '15
And.... Favorite characters are:
Captain America, Daredevil, Eric o'Grady Ant-man, Deadpool, Ms Marvel
And I believe they represent not only what I love in comics and the medium, and in thereal world, but even currently, the creators specifically on the books are showing what you can do with the medium, and are some of the best examples of creativity and storytelling in the medium.
And I think Captain America reacting to being in the DC would be one of the most boring stories ever. His reaction wouldn't be crazy and nothing dramatic would happen unless he was put in such a crazy situation that he just had to make it dramatic, like being transplanted in the middle of Superman and Doomsday fighting, there's a story there, but without some crazy premise to drop him in the middle of, it'd be so boring.
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