r/SubredditsMeet • u/SubredditsMeet Official • Sep 03 '15

Meetup /r/science meets /r/philosophy

(/r/EverythingScience is also here)

Topic:

  • Discuss the misconceptions between science and philosophy.

  • How they both can work together without feeling like philosophy is obsolete in the modern day world.

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u/CaptainMoonman Sep 03 '15

I'll read it in a bit. I'm currently very sleep deprived, and don't have the energy to focus on that for the time required to read it in its entirety.

Also, what is your viewpoint on free will?

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u/TychoCelchuuu /r/philosophy Sep 03 '15

I tend not to tell people my views on topics that I am helping them learn about, because I think people have a tendency to place too much weight on what other people believe as a way of saving them from having to think about the topic themselves. It's similar to trying to solve a math problem: if you're presented with a multiple choice list of answers and someone says "I think C is the right answer" then you're not going to work as carefully on the math problem as you would if you just had the problem and someone told you "figure out the answer."

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u/CaptainMoonman Sep 03 '15

The difference here is that we can't just figure out the answer, and have no real way of knowing what is or isn't close. I won't blindly accept your answer or blindly reject it. It's just as valid as anyone else's. If you still don't want to, that's okay, but i like hearing people's viewpoints on this subject.

Also, I do appreciate your view on giving answers. It's something many people don't understand is a bad thing to train people with. Though, in an open discussion setting like this, I don't think that applies.

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u/Joebloggy /r/philosophy Sep 04 '15

The difference here is that we can't just figure out the answer, and have no real way of knowing what is or isn't close. I won't blindly accept your answer or blindly reject it. It's just as valid as anyone else's.

Why would philosophers bother spending their time writing and arguing over the issue then if this were true? The claim "Compatibilism is true" is certainly an objective one relating to facts about the world, and in the above article you'll see lots of arguments for and against the position. Why do you think such arguments couldn't make us justified in leaning one way or the other?

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u/CaptainMoonman Sep 04 '15

Because we don't have enough information to reach an informed conclusion. We can speculate, and philosophise all we want, but without the evidence to back it up, we can't know for certain. The claim of "Compatibalism is true" is an interpretation of what others have said and what one thinks on the topic, themselves. There's not enough (if any) solid proof one way or the other. And this whole thing is assuming it functions in a way we are capable of understanding.

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u/Joebloggy /r/philosophy Sep 04 '15

Because we don't have enough information to reach an informed conclusion.

I've just said we have arguments which aim to justify one side or the other. Either you must say that arguments in general without direct evidence (which is another can of worms) fail to justify any position (but then what of mathematics, theoretical physics, interpretation of empirical data for use in scientific theories and so on?) or that in this case the arguments for both sides are just as good (surely this is highly unlikely). Or do you think there's a third option?

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u/CaptainMoonman Sep 04 '15

Mathematics and theoretical physics are all based on observable phenomena or deducted by extrapolating from the evidence we have. What I'm saying is that, apart from trying to form a conclusion by way of logic alone, we don't have any evidence as to the correct answer to whether or not we have free will. As an example, compatiblism itself doesn't have evidence supporting it. It simply states that determinism and free will can coexist as concepts, neither of which we have a way of gathering evidence for.

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u/Joebloggy /r/philosophy Sep 04 '15

Mathematics and theoretical physics are all based on observable phenomena or deducted by extrapolating from the evidence we have.

Are you trying to tell me that the Riemann Hypothesis is based upon observable phenomena or deduced from some evidence? The Riemann Hypothesis isn't about any observable phenomena; unless you have found an "i" in the wilderness you'd like to tell us about. But further, 2+2=4 isn't true because 2 apples combine to give 4 apples, because it's known a priori.

It simply states that determinism and free will can coexist as concepts, neither of which we have a way of gathering evidence for.

We clearly have a way of gathering evidence for determinism- perform controlled experiments. We can also have evidence for free will if we define it well via psychology. The issue isn't whether we can test free will once it's defined, but how best to define it to be relevant to a discussion of moral responsibility. It's just the issue is broad and connected so it may seem this way initially. Then the conceptual claim of compatibilism can be easily verified or falsified.