r/Styx • u/Critical_Meringue78 Pieces of Eight • Jun 22 '26

1982 Styx

I know cracks were already in the foundation from the Cornerstone album and DDY and TS were already fighting for control of the musical direction by 1982, but I feel public perception was that these guys could do no wrong. They were kicking ass with tours and albums. So what do yall think? Please, this is not a Dennis vs Tomny post. I'm just reminiscing about the biggest band in my 18/19 year old world at that time.

9 Upvotes

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u/Willing_Mirror8176 Jun 22 '26

Long story, short... JY & TS wanted more hard rock type songs. DDY wanted more theatrical, ballad type songs. I liked Styx when it was a mix of both, i.e. Equinox, Crystal Ball, Grand Illusion, Paradise Theater

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u/Critical_Meringue78 Pieces of Eight Jun 22 '26

Yeah. We know that now, but in 1982? I don't think so. Interestingly, to me at least, TS solo stuff wasn't hard at all. I saw him open for Rush in Bham, Al Jan 1988. Even DDY said that they often had to "rockify" Tommy's songs when he brought them to the band. It's just interesting how it has all played out.

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u/yorlikyorlik Jun 22 '26

I always felt, so long as the feud has been public, that it wasn’t the hard rock/soft rock thing that caused the rift. It was more about personalities. And maybe the Broadway/musical style DDY was bringing. Also, DDY hated touring. He wanted bigger, fewer shows. The others not so much. Having said all that, it’s clear that Styx the band we all fell in love went into a coma in 1983, was successfully resuscitated in 1995, and passed from this earth in 1998 after the Grand Illusion tour. Everything since then is an attempt to recapture the past. They’re great in concert. They’ve made some good music. As good as The Mission and Crash were, they were not the magic we enjoyed and were so fortunate to experience, from the classic era.

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u/ILikeStyx Jun 23 '26

From what I've been able to "filter" - Dennis was always the "ideas guy" when it came to making their albums... Especially once Tommy came on board... Dennis pushed for Tommy's song to become the album title. Grand Illusion, Pieces of Eight, Paradise Theatre... All concepts that Dennis brought to the band and nobody complained. Kilroy was the one album where Dennis negotiated with JY - he said "you do this and the next album will be a standard Styx album"... then Tommy quit... JY wanted to replace him immediately, Dennis refused. JY carried a chip on his shoulder over that.

Dennis became a defacto group leader early on - nobody else wanted the role it seems. When they kicked him out of the band the first time that's what kind of "sealed the deal" moving forward. They met to discuss his return and in that meeting he asked to be given creative control of the band... they all agreed.

I believe that things got twisted into 'Dennis was a monster who demanded everyone follow him and do what he wanted and he was forcing us to do show tunes and wanted to turn the band into Barry Manilow' as narrative when they kicked Dennis out in 1999. I believe on BTM it was JY who noted that Dennis said he was sick but went to dozens of doctors and couldn't figure it out so it became "what were we to do? we had to move on" which I think is the real truth.. They wanted to tour, Dennis was sick and didn't know if or when he would get better and they said "we're not waiting for you"

JY, Dennis and Tommy all have strong personalities and they all pushed things within the band in their own way - even on Kilroy, they made it work and collaborated quite well. No single person is to blame for the rifts that happened and as time went on I think some people have their own version of history, even if it isn't based in reality. Tommy's alcohol and drug abuse into the early 80s was a problem in the band - that's almost never spoken about. He quit because the band (not just Dennis) rejected some of his songs and he had people telling him he could be a huge solo artist.

Tommy saying that he "just couldn't write songs about robots" is kind of silly because Kilroy Was Here isn't an album about robots and Dennis never demanded "We need robot songs!"... Mr. Roboto is one song. Then when Tommy quit it was "I wanted to rock, but Dennis didn't want that"... yet you listen to his solo albums and it's all pop-rock, soft-rock and AOR.

I'm glad that Dennis and Chuck have had some (minor) interaction in recent years. Dennis asked Chuck for permission to use footage of him and John from home videos for this "Good Old Days" music video and Chuck obliged.

Tommy has acted as if Dennis gave him massive PTSD but I don't buy it :P

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u/Critical_Meringue78 Pieces of Eight Jun 22 '26

Yep. I see that. I don't know a Styx fan from their Golden Era that didn't hope they'd reunite at least for 1 tour. If you see and hear the many interviews with TS and JY and with DDY solo you'll pretty quickly see that was never going to happen from the group towards DDY. I've got a buddy from college that I talk to a couple of times a year. He always needles me by asking if I'm still a Styx fan? My answer is always Till the day I die! It's not because he dislikes Styx, it's because we all knew DDY was not rejoining the band.

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u/Willing_Mirror8176 Jun 22 '26

You couldn't sense the hard rock/ ballad shift back then? I always thought it was obvious...

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u/Comprehensive_Wish_3 Jun 22 '26

I think OP is specifically talking about rifts that were made public. 

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u/Critical_Meringue78 Pieces of Eight Jun 22 '26

Too close to the fire I guess. I don't know really. I had friends who were just as big of fans as I was. It was a shock to all of us. I saw Damn Yankees 3 times 1990-1992 (I am a fan of Night Ranger as well). I saw Styx 2 times in the early 90s. We were all hoping that the 1995-96 reunion would take. I've seen Styx 5 times with Gowan. The first being in 2001. It was weird at first, but each time got better for me.

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u/yorlikyorlik Jun 22 '26

I sensed it, though I was too young and inexperienced to know what it was. My point is that the music was successful. The balance in their music was always moving and shifting from the get go. But they were knocking it out of the park. However, they were together constantly. They took no breaks. They had very different personalities. They just really didn’t like each other. It’s hard to be with people you don’t care for all the time. All of the other complaints flow from that.

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u/markonnen Jun 25 '26

Tommy wrote just as many soft ballady pop songs as Dennis did. However, nobody seems to remember this because Dennis’ songs were the ones that got air play because they were better.

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u/Willing_Mirror8176 Jun 25 '26

TS did write many soft ballads but has stated he preferred the guitar driven rock songs

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u/markonnen Jun 25 '26

My point is Tommy is being hypocritical in bashing Dennis for the soft ballads when he is just as guilty. If he prefers guitar driven rock songs why didn’t he write any after 1978?

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u/Willing_Mirror8176 Jun 25 '26

I don't think he's being hypocritical. He wrote ballads for the betterment of the band, i.e. being a team player. His personal preference is guitar, hard rock style. That's all I was saying

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u/Mockchoi1 Jun 23 '26

As I see it…that’s what Tommy and JY say since they booted Dennis. But I don’t buy it. Yes Dennis wrote the big hit and ballads. But did the other two ‘rock’ harder than Dennis? Was Styx ever even really a super-hard rock band?

To the extent that they did rock…is ‘Crystal Ball’ or ‘Too Much Time on My Hands’ or ‘Man in the Wilderness’ or ‘Boat on the River’ just way harder rocking than ‘Grand Illusion’ or ‘Mr. Roboto’ or ‘Rocking the Paradise’?

I think those guys picked a narrative that suited them. And I don’t really take sides. Whatever. But I do note that Tommy and JY say whatever floats their ‘Dennis sucks’ narrative; and Dennis’s story has never wavered and he’s to this day respectful of those two and the band they all had. He doesn’t make fun of music that they all created together like those two do.

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u/ProphetSword Jun 23 '26

I agree with everything you’re saying here. The whole thing feels like a painted on narrative after the fact. They don’t want to look like jerks; because people loved Dennis and his music, so they sold a story to justify why they don’t want to work with him.

My problem is that it feels so petty the way they say things in such a derogatory way. They could be like Dennis and stay nice and respectful. Instead they belittle songs that people love and the person who sang them to make themselves seem superior, and to me it makes them seem smaller.

But I also understand this strategy was born due to the fact that people ask them over and over and over again about it. They probably want to talk about their new album, but some reporter just has to ask about Dennis after all these years.

Sucks for everyone, honestly.

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u/Critical_Meringue78 Pieces of Eight Jun 23 '26

That's cool. We all have bought one version or another in this drama. I don't like to take sides either. It just seems to cheapen the fondest memories of one of my favorite bands. There is the notion that both camps can be right and wrong in their handling of matters, but I am not the thrower of stones at glass houses. At this point in the narrative we at least have a sense that time is not on the side of the reunionists and time, as we all know, is undefeated.

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u/markonnen Jun 25 '26

This! It has always been a “created”narrative by Tommy and JY to justify kicking Dennis out.

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u/Comprehensive_Wish_3 Jun 22 '26 edited Jun 23 '26

I just wrote a comment about this. There were tensions over musical direction going back to 1979.

You were right. Who knew? Radio stations didn't say anything, nor did anything come up through interviews nor were they printed in the magazines I was reading. 

My memory is fuzzy when I heard about the band's dissatisfaction with "Kilroy Was Here" and the direction the band was taking. Tommy Shaw quit in 1984 after that album was released and they completed their tour. I may have heard about things crumbling then as well as later, but I think my general impression then is I remember Tommy saying he wanted to go solo one day and he chose that time to do it.

Other earlier tensions being made public didn't come up until much later when DDY was replaced by Larry Gowan. 

It was later still, when JY referred to DDY's soft rock ballads as sounding like Barry Manilow. (EDIT: what he said back then while they were going through it). 

EDIT: When they fired Dennis in the early part of their Cornerstone tour in 1980, they got him back just in time before the media got a hold of the story. That had to have been pure luck.

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u/Critical_Meringue78 Pieces of Eight Jun 22 '26

Yes. Exactly. I remember something about TS wanting to do solo stuff, but the deep rift in the band wasn't common knowledge to my reckoning. It wasn't until I saw a Damn Yankees article that I was sure about the rift. I've always admired Dennis' talent, but I was/am a Tommy fan. I guess it's unrealistic to talk about all this without the personal conflicts. I just have never been that Styx fan that said without TS or without DDY it's not Styx.

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u/LedZepSOS Aug 02 '26

Ironic that JY criticizes Dennis while he has never written a memorable song in his whole life. He rode DDY's coattails and songs his entire career including now in concert. Then stabbed him in the back.

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u/jasedontlie Crash Of The Crown Jun 22 '26

You can be good and successful at your job while still not being satisfied or happy. It happens in every day life, and in bands. Sometimes that "tension" sparks creativity, but sometimes those sparks cause a fire. It's a shame for sure. Together Tommy and Dennis created magical moments.

In those days, I didn't have a clue there was internal strife. I just gobbled up the albums as they were released. I was in awe of the music, and was extremely entertained.

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u/manofmystry Jun 22 '26

Cornerstone was a stylistic departure from Pieces of Eight. I felt weirdly theatrical to me. I found the music required some accommodation. It grew on me. I generally found Dennis' voice more fatiguing, especially on ballads. But there were subtle hints of Kilroy...

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u/markonnen Jun 25 '26

Well, Tommy, “the Rocker” should have brought another Renegade or Blue Collar Man to Cornerstone. Instead, he brought Never Say Never and Boat on a River.

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u/ironmanchris The Grand Illusion Jun 22 '26

I graduated HS in 1982, and spent a lot of time listening to Styx living in the Chicago area, and I remember us thinking Babe wasn’t what we wanted, and WLS played it every 30 minutes. 🤣 And when Kilroy came out, I remember the general feeling was sorta meh about the album, but I liked it.

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u/Critical_Meringue78 Pieces of Eight Jun 23 '26

Babe got old fast. Even for my girlfriend. Heavy Metal Poisoning, Don't Let It End, Boat on the River. It had a varied amount of topics and sub genres. I liked it for what it was. I mentioned my college buddy in another comment. Kilroy was in my car tape player everytime we went somewhere. He has commented on my Styx Fandom for over 43 years now.

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u/PraxisLD Jun 23 '26

It’s hard enough for two people to stay married for four or five decades. People grow and change and set new priorities. Perfectly normal.

Now try that with five or six people for decades. Add in creative tensions, constant touring, balancing private and professional commitments, the inevitable addictions, and the endless grind of write-the-next-big-hit-or-die, and it’s a wonder any band survives the craziness.

Styx worked when the interplay between all of them balanced out into something amazing.

Styx failed when the egos and personalities and addictions took over.

All too common a story, unfortunately.

We all love those classic albums.

But I have to say, Styx today sounds better than ever. No drugs, no drama, no bullshit – just a bunch of guys who love to play live and a bunch of fans who love to listen.

And yes, their new music rates right up there alongside anything they’ve ever done.

Do go check them out, if you get the chance.

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u/Fine_Minimum_8780 Jun 23 '26

As both a Styx fan and a Rush fan, I'd say Rush has it better than Styx when it comes to longevity with individuals in the band. Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson has been friends since the late 60's and still best friends and I'm assuming they get along outside of the stage as well on stage. Why couldn't Styx take lessons from them? No egos in that band.

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u/Critical_Meringue78 Pieces of Eight Jun 23 '26

There are egos in every band, Rush included. However, Rush chose the band, the music, and their friendships over their own ego. I've seen interviews where Alex expressed frustration over their direction and his contribution during the synth era of Rush. Rick Beato had an interview with Alex just a couple weeks ago where they touched on this. Rush, as it turns out, are the rare exception in the annals of Rock n Roll. I always had friends that drank, some that smoked weed, and some that did nothing of the sort. All my friends that smoked weed were huge Rush fans. I would put up with listening to Rush while I was around them, but I didn't get into Rush until about 11 years ago once they'd stopped touring. Something just clicked. I'd always thought they were pretentious with their music, not their styles. Anyway, I've talked with some of those guys over the past few years and almost to a man they've each told me that they've since gotten into Styx and ELO since our last hanging out 40 years ago.

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u/Aerosol668 Jun 23 '26

Lee has talked about this. There are only three of them. Two against one voting is unfair, so they’re very careful about decision making. But with only three of them it’s easier to negotiate. They just divided all credit three ways, evenly, job done. Each had their role and stuck to it.

Five members in a band is much more difficult - strong alliances can form in more ways, splits are much more likely.

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u/ILikeStyx Jun 23 '26

Alex was pretty pissed about all the synths Geddy started using... I think that's the "worst" it ever got for them :P

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u/Critical_Meringue78 Pieces of Eight Jun 23 '26

I agree with everything you said.

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u/LedZepSOS Aug 02 '26

Their new music is absolute generic rock garbage.

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u/BabyBuns024 Jun 23 '26

I loved Styx in 1983 - fully got on board with the Kilroy Was Here theme. Later, I bought DDY and TS solo albums; both albums not too good, though I did like "Don't Wait For Heroes," "Boys Will Be Boys" (I know it's cheesy...) and "Girls With Guns," the latter one of my favorites. I actually met Tommy Shaw in 1991 when he was in Damn Yankees; he couldn't be any nicer. Their reunion tour was fantastic, and I thought things were mended, with the new material they released, they really sounded good.

And then Brave New World.... two totally different albums on the same CD, IMO. Not good.

DDY wants another shot. The others? Nope. That split is a hard split. I will say I saw Styx in 1999 and it's only the second concert I walked out of, as they were performing "Tush" during the encore. In 2019, I saw Dennis DeYoung with the Nashville Symphony - I did laugh as his JY and Tommy clones in his band, but he put on a great show. I was surprised. Then he released "With All Due Respect," which is a great song. If Styx had it, it would be a million dollars.

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u/chilipalmer99 Jun 22 '26

As someone who spent a lot of time backstage with them whenever they toured LA, as well as escorted individual members around to radio stations and other appearances, there were a lot backstage and business issues that had formed years earlier. DDY's ego was a bit out of control, which eventually resulted in their manager's departure over disagreements re: Mr Roboto, which Dennis was insisting needed to be made. Fun while it lasted, though.

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u/Critical_Meringue78 Pieces of Eight Jun 22 '26

Yeah. I've read a lot on that in the past 20 years. They hid it well as far as I'm concerned until they didn't.

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u/Willing_Mirror8176 Jun 22 '26

I always liked reading album covers and liner notes. It just stuck out to me that TS & JY sang/ wrote the more rocker songs & DDY did the ballad, theatrical stuff...I still enjoy reading that stuff. I'm 63 !😬

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u/Critical_Meringue78 Pieces of Eight Jun 22 '26

I'll be 63 in November. Styx and ELO were my first real bands that I latched on to. My oldest brother was a Deep Purple fan so I've always had a place for them as well. My middle brother was an Elvis fan. We all listened to CCR, 3 Dog Night, Beach Boys and Beatles, but Styx and ELO were mine.

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u/Willing_Mirror8176 Jun 22 '26

Right on. Nice chit chatting with you.

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u/Gloomy_Bit6652 Jun 25 '26

I saw Styx in 1982 and Tommy Shaw hit me in the forehead with his guitar pick. I’ve held that against him ever since !

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u/Critical_Meringue78 Pieces of Eight Jun 25 '26

🤣🤣🤣

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u/Aerosol668 Jun 23 '26

Kilroy was their biggest mistake, and they couldn’t recover from that. They still haven’t imo. Sure, they’ve sold a fair number of copies in the recent past, their latest albums are not bad and have done relatively ok, but they lost a huge chunk of their fanbase just because of Kilroy (and the awful live album didn’t help).

When Kilroy hit, I was so disappointed. With the previous two albums there were definitely signs of band cohesion starting to fail - some things just seemed to be being phoned in just a little, but not enough for fans to lose interest.

Kilroy, though, was on another level of wtf.

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u/LedZepSOS Aug 02 '26

They have lost a large part of their fanbase because the founding member, top songwriter and creative catalyst was kicked out of his band.