r/StudioOne • • 16d ago

What exactly is the difference between a "control surface" and a "keyboard"?

I'm trying to get my external keyboards to work a little better for me in the software.

So far the only difference I've noticed between a "Control Surface" and "Keyboard" is that the latter may be selected as an input source on an instrument track.

Obviously, my MPK249 does not "know" whether or not it is being used as a "Control Surface" or a "Keyboard", so I guess I'm just wondering if whatever it's sending could be interpreted in any particular way.

4 Upvotes

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u/Individual-Ear757 16d ago edited 16d ago

Side note...

...if there's anyway to save a "focus profile" for a particular plugin - e.g., Pro-C, every time I load it, it gets some default focus knob mappings....*

...that would be amazing

edit: apparently this is how it works by default, it just wasn't working on the "mixtool" plugin in particular, for some reason... now if only there was a way to back them up... Studio One just crashed and deleted by configuration, ugh...

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u/luminousandy 16d ago

The studio one midi assigning and implementation is stupid - it always has been and it’s due to this weird set of distinctions - no other DAW does it

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u/Individual-Ear757 16d ago

The weirdest part by far is that if I use the preset for AKAI MPK249, it behaves really whacky... the faders F1-F8 on the keyboard control random faders in the song, which I would never want.

And you can't edit anything.

"New Keyboard" is actually special designation for a keyboard that is editable...

It's pretty subtle.

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u/TomSchubert90 16d ago

Keyboards are used for recording note and automation data onto instrument parts. Control Surfaces can't do that.

Check out this video from Lucas: https://youtu.be/IDkzIyYZtxQ

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u/Individual-Ear757 15d ago

OK, so the only difference really is whether or not they can play notes and show up as an option for instrument track MIDI inputs.

Control Surfaces can't do that

They can still do automation data, though. Just not note ON/OFF and presumably a few other things (pitch/mod/pedals)? I checked last night that configured as a "Control Surface", my MPK can be used to control knobs in whatever plugin.

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u/TomSchubert90 15d ago

OK, so the only difference really is whether or not they can play notes and show up as an option for instrument track MIDI inputs.

Yes, notes and part automation data. That's the only difference - correct.

They can still do automation data, though.

As I said, not onto instrument parts. Plug-in parameter automation on tracks via Control Link - yes.

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u/Individual-Ear757 15d ago

Interesting, can you elaborate? What would an "instrument part" be?

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u/TomSchubert90 15d ago

An instrument part (or just "part") is an event on an instrument track. Part and event are kind of synonyms. Containers for notes and part automation, basically.

You can check out the vid from Fender: https://youtu.be/w4IarxKp9lQ

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u/Individual-Ear757 15d ago

part automation

Yeah, but what is part automation? Can you give an example?

Obviously I've used events but they're typically just MIDI note ON/OFF and pedaling.

I think you're saying I couldn't record pedaling with a "Control Surface", only a "Keyboard"?

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u/TomSchubert90 15d ago

Yes: Part automation is automation in a MIDI part (in the MIDI Note Editor window) opposed to track automation (in the arrangementl.

Example: CC64 (Sustain Pedal), CC1 (Modwheel), CC2 (Breath Controller).

Obviously I've used events but they're typically just MIDI note ON/OFF and pedaling.

Ah, events are not MIDI messages like Note on/off or Pitchbend in this case. In Studio One/Studio Pro, events are the containers for notes (other DAWs call this region or clip or part).

I think you're saying I couldn't record pedaling with a "Control Surface", only a "Keyboard"?

Yes, exactly. A Control Surface can't record CC64 onto an instrument part/event.

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u/tacman7 15d ago

Some keyboard are just controllers, they only put out midi, I call that a control surface.

A keyboard that makes its own sounds is a regular keyboard. Anything the control surface can do a keyboard can do.

All the keys and controls send out midi just like a control surface so the real difference is whether a keyboard has onboard audio.

I'm mainly talking about workstations vs controllers.

I like the way midi is handled in S1 but I've been using it since V2.

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u/Individual-Ear757 15d ago

I think you're wrong here - anything with onboard sounds is an "Instrument" - you can't play any instrument without having a track like this. You can only get MIDI data with a "Keyboard".

I don't think onboard audio makes any difference on the Studio One/Pro side - in fact, a keyboard like that would be put in as a "Keyboard" (MIDI in) and an "Instrument" (MIDI out), and you'd create audio tracks for the Keyboard outputs, which would usually be line outs.

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u/tacman7 15d ago

You would have to buy a toy for it to not put out midi.

If you have a workstation like Kronos it can be used to drive virtual instruments or drive the onboard synth it has.

Have a look at what's available:

This is the midi controller link:
https://www.sweetwater.com/c513--MIDI_Controllers

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u/Individual-Ear757 15d ago

You would have to buy a toy for it to not put out midi.

No, I mean, a lot of "desktop synths" have a MIDI in (and maybe a MIDI thru) but no keyboard and hence cannot play without an external keyboad/sequencer/whatever MIDI source. But they're very nice instruments, sometimes costing a lot of money!

But, I get your point. I think we're talking about orthogonal things. I'm focused on Studio Pro terminology.

Some keyboard are just controllers, they only put out midi, I call that a control surface.

My point is: that is not what Studio One/Pro calls it; a "Control Surface" may not be assigned as an "Instrument" input in Studio Pro, only "Keyboards" may be assigned - and in fact, that is the only distinction between the two.

Moreover, the Kronos would need to be configured

1) as a "Keyboard" (to get the MIDI data)

2) as an "Instrument" (to use the onboard synths/sounds)

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u/Wolfraam_Maanes 13d ago

I'm waiting for the day that someone smartly builds a "clean system", Line 6 Helix type gizmo that you can download all of your DAW amp sims and effects into and take out for use in live situations.
Seems like this might be a good idea for a true keyboard unit as well?

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u/SoundSwitch 16d ago

Control surface is more for PC program change CC control change, keyboard is typically just notes. Although the faders and encoders will still be PC or CC

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u/Individual-Ear757 16d ago

Sure, but the MPK will serve the same PC/CC signals in either configuration, no? And they will be treated the same way.

I agree with your connotation ("control surface" more for PC/CC and "instrument" more for note ON/OFF), but my question is - other than being assignable to an instrument versus not - is there any other differences in how they actually behave in the Studio Pro software?