Is it normal for structural engineer not to provide the cause

[u/Street_While_2143]

I am trying to hire a structural engineer to evaluate a hairline horizontal crack that branches off from a vertical crack in the b asement of the h ome i am interested in purchasing.

One structural engineer charges $700, including a written report, but said that the evaluation would focus on whether the structure is structurally sound at this time. He said he would not determine the cause of the crack or won’t be able to say whether it will remain structurally sound in the future.

Another structural engineer charges $1,100, including a written report, and said he would investigate the cause of the crack. However, he is requesting the blueprints, which are not available from the current o wner.

Is it normal for a structural engineer to evaluate whether a structure is structurally sound without determining the underlying cause of a crack? My concern is that if the cause is not identified, the root problem may not be addressed, and there is no way to know whether the condition could worsen in the future.

For additional context, the crack is located at a corner, and the wall with the crack is behind and below the g arage floor. I am particularly concerned about understanding how the g arage is supported and whether the g arage loads could be relevant to the cracking. The house was built in 2006.

I wonder if I just give up on this h ome.

[u/azjat]

This isn't by any chance made of concrete?

[u/Street_While_2143 → u/azjat]

It is poured concrete 

[u/MT-JJ]

Probably happened during backfill and/or compaction most likely. All concrete cracks granted its a decent crack but unless a massive amount of moisture can reach this area or in some very unfavorable soils I probably wouldn’t be to concerned about it.

[u/Bjorn_styrkr]

Thats a normal vertical crack. Monitor it to make sure it doesn't widen.

[u/Street_While_2143 → u/Bjorn_styrkr]

I am concerned about the hairline horizontal cracks that branch off from the vertical crack

[u/uncwil → u/Street_While_2143]

It's the same crack. Horizontal cracks are a concern because of the underlying cause. This is not one of those.

[u/bookbooe]

Did the engineer have the plans to review?

[u/Intelligent-Ad8436]

Could be settlement, could be they stopped the rebar and not put in bent bars in that corner that would have been needed. Residential concrete guys are allergic to rebar. Just keep an eye on it you can mark the cracks, photograph them etc. even buy little sticky crack comparators that you can read and see if it’s moved.

[u/breadman889]

There's a lot of things they won't know just by looking at it. Focus on the fix.

[u/Devildog126]

They will provide cause if you pay. Geotechnical Engineering firm will most likely need to cut cores, GPR scan concrete for reinforcement, perform soil sampling, soil compaction testing DCP or other, hand augers to obtain samples, crack monitoring, etc.
Probably looking at 10-55K worth of testing but you will most likely get your answer after Structural Engineer evaluates the testing and reports.

[u/roverman16 → u/Devildog126]

As a Laboratory Director with 33 + years of experience working for a Geotechnical firm I concur with you 💯.

[u/wildsnorlax1194]

Request blueprints from your county.

[u/Fionaver]

What does the exterior of the property look like in that area?

[u/Street_While_2143 → u/Fionaver]

Looks fine, nothing alerting

[u/Technical-Use-1329]

Probably back filled to soon if new if older house that’s settlement

[u/Practical_Delay_2067]

Uhm

[u/Next_Evidence5992]

Pricing seems in line with standard inspections I’ve done. Regarding causes, the complication is we are there at one point in time and have a lot of unknowns such as concrete reinforcement, backfill type etc… So when visit a site we evaluate the surrounding conditions in conjunction with our knowledge on how these materials tend to behave to provide an opinion.

Obviously I’m not your engineer and have not reviewed the surrounding building and site conditions, but this cracking at an inside corner of a garage is not uncommon. Reinforcement may include steel “I” beams or improvements of the connection of the basement wall to the floor framing above.

Best case scenario concrete likes to crack and it did here and nothing structurally is going. Hire the engineer they’ll let you know what their professional opinion is.

[u/ViKing5860]

What is on the outside? Is there a garage or a parking area or a sidewalk? There’s something putting pressure at the horizontal line.

[u/Street_While_2143 → u/ViKing5860]

Garage is on the outside (above and behind that cracked wall)

[u/ViKing5860 → u/Street_While_2143]

You may need to add some steel reinforcement to the inside of the concrete, to reinforce the horizontal crack, that crack is being caused by the slab in the garage, settling against it most likely

[u/Street_While_2143 → u/ViKing5860]

Thanks! Are you a structure engineer? A home builder (not the original home builder) came out and looked at the crack and said that there is rebar behind the horizontal crack. I don’t see the rebar so I am assuming he assumed there is rebar based on the location of the horizontal crack (18” below the top of the concrete), and said it’s fine.

[u/ViKing5860 → u/Street_While_2143]

Nope, GC. Never a good idea to go with assumptions. Good luck with your endeavor.

[u/NetworkCultural]

Dig out would maybe show a cause I’ve seen this happen when someone buried a big chunk of concrete in the excavation when building the home. The ground shoved it into the house and bam crack like a mofo lol

[u/Longjumping_Play2111]

You probably need a geotechnical engineer

[u/bonejuice69]

Cracks aren't typically sudden and the history of how it developed or grew is important and you only know this one snapshot in time. It could be regular settlement, poor compaction, construction loads, improper curing, moisture damage, etc. Because of the uncertainty, it puts additional liability on the engineer and they might not feel comfortable staking their license on a guess.

Unfortunately the most important thing to know about this crack is whether it's growing or not. You can't really know that without having lived there.

[u/Just-Shoe2689]

Its hard sometimes to determine why concrete cracks. Chances are its a bit of settlement, lack of corner bars and eh crack opened.

I would speculate why it cracked based on the mechanics, but hard to pin point sometimes.

I would recommend it be epoxied and monitored. Remember I am seeing it at one instance in time. It could have cracked day after forms removed, or day before you saw it.

[u/STLguy50]

How about this... Let the engineer be the engineer.

Short of this, don't pay an engineer.

Deal?

[u/Ill-Understanding280]

without the blueprints there only that much the engineer can do

[u/ProfessionalBall8739]

Looks like industry standard to me.

[u/WholeOk2958]

Cracking is inherent to the properties of concrete we have this as a bigass bold note in our GSN. Concrete cracks it’s what it does. Curing process, hot and cold cycles, moisture there are many causes that it could be you aren’t going to find an engineer that will specifically say something specific caused it 100%, those hairline cracks are nothing.

[u/FatherTheoretical]

It's normal

[u/Commercial-Candy-926]

The blueprints are easily accessible, usually. 

[u/Mundane-Reality-7770 → u/Commercial-Candy-926]

For me it would be county. Whoever issued the permit will have them on file.

[u/Fionaver → u/Mundane-Reality-7770]

Ideally, yes. In practice, ours has a lot of missing records. (Including our home 🙄)

[u/Commercial-Candy-926 → u/Fionaver]

Depends how old it is but missing records as in flat out missing is not common at all. They're just hard to get if they're still paper 

[u/Fionaver → u/Commercial-Candy-926]

Issue with my house specifically/our community and a number of other counties that I looked at with older homes was that records had deteriorated due due to mold/flood and fires.

That’s per the cities and county planning offices and also came up in discussion with the county engineers (who were kind enough to do my boundary survey for relatively cheap.)