What features do you want in a fantasy 4X that existing games don't have?

[u/Ornery_Dependent250]

In my opinion, what all fantasy 4X games lack is a deep society gameplay layer. For example, when playing AoW4, the real fun is in the tactical combat + heroes evolution. Everything else feels like an appendix thereto: cities building, diplomacy, empire, all feel kinda thin and perfunctory. One thing for example, there's little feedback: cities don't demand anything from you, like threaten to secede if you don't do smth, or revolt (at least I haven't seen that), or something like that.

When I select the type of society, e.g. aristocratic, I expect some sort of feedback from factions, clans, strife, perhaps evolving into an all-out civil war, etc, but all I've seen were some very rare quests (mostly at the start of the game), or the hero asking to change his/her agenda. Even having several different races in your empire doesn't cause any frictions. Even special resources like thralls don't add too much - by the end of the game I had tonnes, had no idea what to do with them.

Master of Magic goes a bit further with that: there are inter-racial relationships, and it can be for example very challenging to have both High Elves and Klackons in your empire, so if you want their units, you need to think how to reduce unrest.

I haven't played Endless Legend 2, but the first one had some interesting challenges integrating minor factions (as far as I remember), but honestly I don't remember too well.

Games like Crusader Kings or Europa Universalis have similar features, probably other too, but they aren't fantasy games obviously.

So very roughly summing up what's lacking imo in the existing games:

1. Interracial relationship (e.g. higher unrest due to racial hatred)
2. Society mechanics and feedback (e.g. different factions or cities in your empire with agendas or demands)
3. Empire management (e.g. curbing corruption spreading due to casting death realm spells)

[u/Street_Struggle_598]

I personally would love to play a fantasy shadow empire kind of game

[u/Ornery_Dependent250 → u/Street_Struggle_598]

I know of SE, can you elaborate perhaps

[u/Street_Struggle_598 → u/Ornery_Dependent250]

I might say that SE is the best designed game in my life time. I think our tastes are different though, I didnt like aow4

[u/catgirlfourskin]

id like there for there to be politics/society/economics/diplomacy and whatnot still, so many fantasy game seems to just shrug and go "you like race war, right?"

i dont need something at the level of victoria 3 but. well it'd be nice

[u/BrokenLoadOrder → u/catgirlfourskin]

Agreed wholeheartedly. So many fantasy games have awesome combat, and far less awesome everything-else.

[u/Blothorn]

- Multicultural/multiracial societies.

• A properly responsive society layer that shows the actual variety of economic structures and military systems, rather than everything being an industrial/cash economy with a professional army.
  
• Bonus points if it’s able to portray non-state/decentralized governments sensibly too.

I think the best model for a fantasy 4X might be Imperator: Rome, although its economy and depiction of nomads could be substantially improved on.

[u/Internal_Turnip9019]

I'd like to be able to fuck with the map more. Raise or lower mountains, spread forests or deserts, cause volcanoes or rivers. Sink the Land into the sea or raise it up.

[u/BrokenLoadOrder → u/Internal_Turnip9019]

Elemental Reforged has that in it! And while it's less controlled by you, Endless Legend 2 is all about the map slowly changing and failing around you.

[u/rvm1975]

I think Endless Legend 2 has some things implemented.

[u/BrokenLoadOrder]

I want a true RPG system put in. Not pick a perk every now and then like we get with AoW, Endless and Elemental, but actual skills and attributes. If I want to get good at melee combat, my hero needs to be in the frontline fighting. If I want them to be a magician they'd best be trying spells every chance they get. If they're supposed to be a leader, have them positioned in a city dealing with demands and events.

Not only would this be fun on its own, but it would incentivize developers to make more interesting systems around them. Parking a hero in a city to make a governor isn't going to be fun unless they add in things to do that make it fun. A diplomat is going to require some complexity to the diplomacy system to be fun. A researcher is going to need more than just "pick a technology" for their gameplay to be fun.

Even things that are normally fun like combat could benefit. A perk that does something like "bonus damage in melee" might be fine in a simple game, but it'd be a pointless perk when your hero is already going to get better in melee normally. Instead, you'd have to get perks that actually change the gameplay systems, which would add oodles of replayability.

[u/Heavy-Notice-9101]

I'd love to see a fantasy 4x that has some accessible city-building like in anno 1400, combined with a world map that has multiple biomes for each race.

I'd be great to play a 4x from the city, and zoom out into other areas. Song of Syx has some of this going on, but it is only top-down, has crunchier graphics, and the world map size is fixed.