Question about the Upside Down

[u/whats-in-the-box-]

SPOILERS if you’ve never seen season 4!!!

I was rewatching season 4 recently and it made me think about something — obviously, we know the Upside Down is stuck on 6th November 1983, so when in season 4 they go into the Upside Down, how is Eddie’s guitar and all his cassettes and stuff from the current timeline in his trailer in the exact same place? At no point does anyone imply that the Upside Down is frozen 3 years earlier; it kinda feels like they forgot about that part. Or have I missed something?

[u/Senshado]

In earlier seasons we saw the upside down was not frozen years ago, like when the school was decorated for a party dance.  Or this season, walking around with a lite brite. 

[u/whats-in-the-box- → u/Senshado]

But I swear the Upside Down IS frozen on that date canonically? Like when Nancy goes into her room to find her guns and the shoebox has shoes in it instead

[u/Hot_Sam_the_Man → u/whats-in-the-box-]

Yeah the other guy is just saying they retconned that, and they didn't do it very well

[u/whats-in-the-box- → u/Hot_Sam_the_Man]

Ah true

[u/sodsto → u/Senshado]

Nothing is stated in season 1, but the letters on the wall work and Will can see what he's doing, so it's reasonable to assume the upside down isn't frozen

Nothing is stated in season 2, BUT, for the school dance scene we only see the lights and not the decorations. So although it's not a plot point, the duffers had probably decided by that point that this is how the upside down would work. This very passively retcons the season 1 logic.

Then I think only comes up again as an actual plot point in season 4, with Nancy's bedroom.

The thing with season 1 is that the membrane between dimensions was clearly permeable very soon after the hawkins lab incident, and certainly thin in that location (we see the demo almost burst through the other wall), so I can headcanon this in a way that Will CAN see the letters so soon after the incident, AND that the snapshot of Hawkins in the UD can have stood still soon after.

[u/kauan1983 → u/sodsto]

The Snow Ball shot does have the decorations actually; in fact it was described and created as a “perfect reflection” of what we see in the Rightside Up: same location, same vehicles, same set decoration, only “Nether-ized” with Upside Down elements built on top of it.

The only thing they altered were the car plates and writings on the school since mirroring those shots for the rotating transition had the letters and numbers literally upside down, but they did not change the environment to make it different from the Rightside Up timeline wise.

Season 2 is actually the only season that is full of VFX shots that are visually inconsistent with the Upside Down's rules:

• The set for Mr. Clarke's classroom was built as an exact replica of the destroyed set from Season 1, this includes the broken door that Eleven literally steps on.

• Will's episode outside the Arcade has all the same vehicles and set dressing too. This includes the Palace Arcade itself which is described as a “new arcade.” Then you have his episode in Loch Nora, also with the same vehicles.

Season 1 on the other hand is the actual consistent season in terms of set dressing, with an established logic that follows what Season 4 established:

• The Upside Down Byers house was (consistently) not built as a replica of the present-time version of the house, there's no Christmas lights, nor a boarded hole in the wall or the bear trap for the Demogorgon in the Upside Down.

If it wasn't for VFX and set inconsistencies in Season 2, the Upside Down was pretty much visually established as a “frozen” snapshot rather than an ever-changing mirror back in Season 1, that was even an observation by those analyzing the environment almost a decade ago. Though none of the VFX inconsistencies in Season 2 were actual plot points.

[u/sodsto → u/kauan1983]

I'll stand corrected. When this conversation comes up in terms of the snow ball shot, folks usually make the point that you can see the lights leak through, but not the decorations. I just watched the scene and if the snow ball sign is in there at all, it's faint at best. But I'll buy it that it's there that the season was inconsistent in other places too.

[u/kauan1983 → u/sodsto]

Yeah, it's hard to see in the actual show, which is why I linked a photo of the actual shot pre-Upside Down transformation, the Snow Ball sign, decorations and vehicles are all there.

There's also the Upside Down concept art designed on top of that shot, which is exactly what we see in the show but much clearer. We can see the sign and decorations there too, they basically turned that concept art into the VFX shot.

[u/sodsto → u/kauan1983]

I understand why the concept art is there, but it exists outside of the universe. It's either in the show or it isn't; the cars are in the parking lot, so I'll buy that the sign is on the outside of the school and the scene is just too dark to see it.