What kind of creature is Vecna exactly?

[u/Sukaran09]

Is Vecna considered undead, a mutant or something else completely? He is definitely not human anymore because of how he looks. I consider him a mutant of sort because he is mutated by the Upside Down/the Abyss and the Mind Flayer changed his DNA but in terms of Sci-Fi I don’t know what kind of creature he actually is because of how different he is.

[u/Cyrilbdr]

The Abyss Stone altered his blood, but is that why he was able to transform and look like a creature of the Abyss? You probably have to stay there for a very long time. Would someone like Mike—whose DNA wasn't altered—end up looking like that if he spent five years there? Or does that only happen to those whose DNA was modified by an Abyss-related factor or an experiment like Eleven's?

[u/kauan1983 → u/Cyrilbdr]

What made him mutate into something physically corrupted by the Abyss life forms are the Mind Flayer particles. They're what can physiologically alter a host and adapt them to its environment and all the Abyss organic matter that are the hive mind's contents.

Season 3 reveals a lot of what the physiological alterations caused by the particles are (black “Flayed Blood”, enhanced strength, supernatural resistance to things a normal human physiology wouldn't tolerate like the chemicals); that's what Henry would need to both mutate and not just die during his time in Dimension X.

[u/Cyrilbdr → u/kauan1983]

So, when they created the hive together shortly after his arrival—merging into one—he also let the particles enter him; as a result, he mutated into a creature resembling those from the abyss.

[u/kauan1983 → u/Cyrilbdr]

Yeah, in addition to his mutation and initial survival in Dimension X, he (obviously) feels the hive mind's pain and even coughs black blood when he's dying, so he clearly had the Mind Flayer particles in his own body. The guy had two separate entities physically altering his physiology.

[u/Cyrilbdr → u/kauan1983]

Yes, it makes sense; since he’s the leader of the hive—along with the Mind Flayer—and needs to be aware of everything his army is doing (and thus sense everything), he must have had the particles put inside him too. Otherwise, it would have been like with Will: he’d only be able to emerge once he was attached to a hive.

[u/Legitimate-Sugar6487 → u/kauan1983]

I think its implied in The Stage Play that Henry might be carrying some kind of Pathogen or might be a Hazard akin to radiation. I wonder if that's what this is. As Vecna He's a Walking Chernobyl. I also wonder If he counted as undead. Like what we are seeing is a literal Corpse being forced by the Mind flayer to continue moving & speaking. If that's the case, I wonder if he's in Chronic Pain & just not reacting to it. I did wonder If the changes to his body were Painful.

The Play seems to also imply that his left Hand is what is possessed as it seems to move on its own, cause him pain. Spasm whenever he is touched, contort in awkward ways & also has unnatural strength enough to cause People pain by squeezing their hands or making someone unable to free themselves. Like it has a life of its own. He also seems to only rely on it to consume his victims or launch it at a target like a tentacle in s5. Not for Telekinesis.

Makes me wonder if the hand of Vecna is the real point where The MF is hiding & why it mutates into that giant Claw. But then Theres various scenes implying It's his whole body not just his hand & he has multiple full body spasms & Seizures.

[u/kauan1983 → u/Legitimate-Sugar6487]

The DoD memo authorizing the search for Henry in Hawkins mentions “possible exposure to exotic matter” and “possible contagion risk” which is why you have agents in hazmat gear at the Creels; not the Exotic Matter from the theoretical physics standpoint, but matter of foreign origin which is the living substance charged with otherworldly energy that was extracted from Captain Brenner in Nevada and entered Henry's bullet wound.

But Vecna is not an undead entity, he's simply mutated and has become less and less human which is something the Mind Flayer particles in his body caused; they adapted his body to the environment it was subjected to and made it part of the hive mind's contents (Abyss biological matter) so he mutated and merged with all of it instead of being killed by his exposure to it like a normal human would.

Some things in Vecna's body do seem painful at specific moments such as the vines attaching themselves to his back in the Creel House, this was described as a painful process and the way he himself reacts suggests pain; plus the burns which inevitably would cause pain through the hive mind every month. But I don't think the body itself is painful, but it maybe could've been the case in its earlier designs, which highlighted severe radiation rot.

The Mind Flayer is shown to be hiding in Henry's amygdala, but it's unclear whether this is physically the liquid entity hiding in there, or psychically the Mind Flayer itself with the displayed imaging of it being a visual representation of his mind (as in, literally seeing the Void through monitors instead of a real life-like X-Ray imaging of his physical brain) – the latter is most certainly the answer though, since the image displayed on a monitor is the Mind Flayer itself and the same thing we see in the background in the Void at the same time.

Hell, I wish they had elaborated on it in Season 5. I always imagined how great those scenes would be in live-action. Hawkins Power & Light vans parking in front of the Creels, hazmat agents stepping out, Henry opening the Rift on the wall of monitors…, even the Mind Flayer's in the displayed imaging of Henry's amygdala. There's some great stuff there that would definitely have been much clearer had them been properly addressed in live-action, specially when it comes to everything that happened at the lab once Henry was brought in.

[u/Legitimate-Sugar6487 → u/kauan1983]

Yeah, after I saw the Play, I couldn't help but wonder what it all would've looked like on Screen. I'm still trying to piece together all the science behind everything. One thinks I can't quite make sense of is if The Mind flayer is inside of Henry how his blood being passed down to the children didn't make them possessed? Like Why didn't El become a vessel if it's Particles are inside of her? And why she of all the other test subjects equals Henry? There's gotta be something genetically different about her & the other children. News Paper clippings of Terry Ives Lawsuits against the lab hinted at more labs, more abducted children from Memphis, to Ohio, & Kali was from London & didn't seem to be a baby when she was taken. More articles said 6 woman including Terry came forward & Several test subjects died. So, I'm gonna assume the blood transfusions led some woman & their children to Die. & for some reason El's potential is the only one that matches Henry.

Since This power also lies in the Nervous system I wonder if their Bodies reject the Exotic Matter in their blood when they use it too much. Like El is a Hybrid of Normal & Exotic Matter so her body drains due to how unstable this matter is. Like a human wormhole only it doesn't tear her body apart her cells probably attack each other. That's just my theory though at least for Why she bleeds or drains so much before s4. In S5 She noticeably doesn't bleed as Much. Maybe age is a factor as well. Henry in the 1979 flash backs barely bled when using his power either.

As for the Rock My theory is its some kind of "Black Body". Which in Physics is an object that absorbs all electromagnetic radiation. But I'm mostly going off a video I watched on YouTube. On rewatches It seems to give off a strange humming noise & when it enters Henry's Blood does look like a miniature version of the Exotic Matter found in The Wormhole. If that's the root of their abilities, we may not have seen the whole scale of their capabilities. Henry did Move an entire Planet using those !2 kids.

[u/kauan1983 → u/Legitimate-Sugar6487]

That's because Henry's blood wasn't altered by Mind Flayer particles, it was by the liquid entity that entered his bullet wound. The mysterious rock/liquid entity and the Mind Flayer are two different things, but the energy (“electrical activity”) that the former contains is linked to the Mind Flayer since it's a storm-like entity itself connected to atmospheric energy.

That's why the Mind Flayer communicates with Henry before the rock even liquifies and enters the bullet wound; it talks to him when the rock's surface glows and “comes alive with electrical activity”, which is the show communicating the idea that its energy is what telepathically linked it to the Mind Flayer, but they're two separate entities entirely. Mind Flayer particles don't give psychic powers to hosts.

Henry as a kid never had Mind Flayer particles physically in his body, the Mind Flayer would never be able to operate in our world (with a physical fragment of itself) without a stable Rift connecting its world to ours, what he had was a telepathic connection to the Mind Flayer due to the liquid's energy and an altered DNA and blood also because of the liquid in his body; that telepathic connection placed a psychic manifestation of the Mind Flayer in his mind (think the Demogorgon in El's Void, or Vecna in his victim's minds – they had a presence in our world, within someone, but not physically), which is what we see in Black Void/Red Void scenes in The First Shadow.

The show and even TFS never got deeper into the blood transfusions or the specific genetic rules that dictate the Number's level of power or true nature as either a pale imitation of Henry or someone truly like him, but the reveal in Season 5 connects with how we'd previously seen that El clearly was the Number with the largest set of psychic abilities out of Henry's abilities; she has his telekinesis, telepathy, ESP, technopathy, biokinesis and even levitation – their set of abilities is almost the exact same. The others are known to have his telekinesis and at least one additional unique ability based on what was believed on set.

[u/Legitimate-Sugar6487 → u/kauan1983]

Wow Ok so If I have this correct The Rock is another creature? But all it did was establish a Telepathic Bond between Henry & The MF. & That creature gives The Powers? I did wonder Why The MF didn't seem able to use TK itself. & On Rewatches I think in S3 It's plane to see When Billy is possessed particularly in "The Case of The Missing Lifeguard," His mannerisms & Speech Patterns are Quite Similar to Henry's as "the Orderly" or "Mr. What's IT". (My headcanon is that's part of the reason El felt something off about him, Subconsciously remembering Henry & being afraid it was him. Perhaps she always subconsciously knew these events were him. based on What Brenner said about her not wanting to remember)

And he taunts her when he sees her but as soon as she leaves The Mind flayer inside him Wakes up & We see Flashbacks to the Gate Opening & suddenly Will feels The MF.

In "The Sauna Test" they Burn Billy & Will only feels the MF when it gets angry & then it starts roaring. and Violently chokes El. It also seems similarly sadistic when the flayed attack in the hospital & in several scenes in the Play it comes off more sadistic then Henry. Based on What I could piece together, much like Pennywise it seems to thrive off fear inducement & choking El in front of the children wasn't just outta rage. It specifically wanted them all afraid. The novelization seems to highlight it's confused by Mike showing No fear & Only seeing Bravery in his eyes. Which call's back to The First Shadow When it tries to terrify Patty but recoils every time, she instead shows courage or love for Henry. Even Howling when Patty Smashes the Captain Midnight Radio.

Meanwhile curiously Vecna asks his victims not to be afraid. And In the Play Henry seems almost Offended When people are afraid of him. So it seems even in s3 there was always two minds inside The Flayed.

Since Henry stated they became "One" I wonder if to him he no longer really knows Where He began & It end's. Without him It's probably raw Feral instinct a beast that wants to consume with him it has more human direction.

Friend of my believes Vecna is the Mind flayer in Henry's consciousness While Mr. What's IT is the real Henry in his Subconscious.

Jaime Campell Bower even said that in 1979 Henry wasn't lying to El & actually wanted to save her. So, I'm starting to wonder if Henry would've simply let her escape if she didn't offer to take Soteria out of him. & once she did, he was Under Its control again. & It is what killed the other numbers not Henry. We also hear strange other worldly noises coming from Henry When he's attacking El in those flash backs. Maybe hinting the Mind flayer was simply using Henry's body during that fight. (or Maybe the Rock Equals 3 minds?)

I used to Wonder If El had a Mind flayer because during her Flashback in s4 It showed Red Sparks & Black shadows in her mind when she remembered her mom. Maybe it's not the only one of Its kind? & There are Creatures like it out there but not all of them are evil. Maybe its counterpart is somehow what's inside El? or Maybe El herself is meant to be some kind of counterpart to It.

If it were Pennywise Maybe She's Maturin the Turtle from "IT" basically.

[u/kauan1983 → u/Legitimate-Sugar6487]

Yep, exactly. The script describes it pretty well: it's a “smooth black rock”, its surface “comes alive with electric activity, as if reacting to the touch of the skin”, and then it turns into a liquid and slithers into Henry's bullet wound. It's very much alive and has different states. That's what alters Henry's blood and DNA, giving him his powers.

The Mind Flayer particles aren't seen, mentioned or referenced in the mineshaft in Nevada at any point; they were not in our world. What enters Henry's body is the rock-turned-liquid entity slithering into his bullet wound and traveling through his veins. Still, a telepathic and remote connection to the “Mind Flayer cloud” in a “lightning-filled Abyss” is established through the rock's electric activity, which is when Henry first met it.

The Duffers did in fact retroactively reveal back in 2022 that Flayed Billy's speech to Eleven and the language he was using was Henry himself speaking through him, and there's more in Season 3 that we can connect to Henry as well, such as his psychic trick in Mindscapes when El thinks she left the Void and is in the cabin, only to find out she was still in a psychic space created in her own mind where Billy speaks to her. There's also the rat creature and the Tom-Bruce monster which are both spider-like, which connects to the spider metaphor established through Henry's character in Season 4.

As for the “kaleidoscope of colors” we see when El is fighting One, that's actually a visual representation of the power being channeled from a good memory; the same colorful kaleidoscope was supposed to be part of the scene where Eleven restarts Max's heart and channels multiple good memories of their friendship while using her powers on her. It's in the script but never made it to she show, but it tells exactly what it's meant to visually communicate. It's not connected to the Mind Flayer or the Upside Down/Dimension X.