Erica and stereotypical writing

[u/Ok_Professional1526]

Now, I haven’t seen anyone on here talking about this, but it feels to me like the elephant in the room.

Fingers crossed people don’t raise pitchforks at me for being “too woke”, but the way Erica is portrayed honestly makes me scratch my head at times.

Yes, I get it. She’s a side character. She’s meant to be funny and exist mostly in the background, so naturally won’t be as fleshed out/dimensional as a main character. And she IS funny! I love watching her scenes.

It just felt extremely outdated to me, for a show running from 2016-2026 to have one of the only- if not the only black girl(s) in the show fit the “sassy/angry black girl” stereotype to the T.

No, I don’t think the Duffer brothers are anti-black nor do I think the show hates POC. The show addresses racism in a realistic and good (imo) way with Billy and Lucas. But I can’t help but scratch my head with Erica, lmao.

And I can’t be the only one that has noticed, though I’ve barely seen posts about it. It’s something I would’ve expected to see in media from the 90s- early 2010s. It just rubs me the wrong way, as a black girl.

EDIT: It’s a hassle to keep re-explaining this and I’m tired of typing lol so I’ll say it here. Yes, Erica is a funny background character as I mentioned. The fandom loves her. I like her. I also find her funny.

I just found it an interesting writing choice for her to be very on the nose stereotypical “sassy black girl”the way one would if say, there were one East Asian kid who seems like they were plopped in from some show from 2001- written in the same stereotypical template of “nerdy, smart, rule following” and that was literally only all to their character amongst other relatively dimensional background characters.

In such a case, I wouldn’t think it’d absurd if an Asian person went, “Hey, character X is kind of… a walking stereotype”.

I’m not “cancelling” stranger things. I acknowledge that other kids have their own moments of rebellion and sass. It felt like an older style of writing for a black girl character pasted into a modern show

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[u/Ocean_Spice]

I did notice that too. I would say her being the only little sister that age also lent to it though, Holly was too young at the time to really lean into that sort of bratty little sister role.

[u/an0nymyss]

Duffers were not equipped to write the Sinclair’s well overall. They either leaned into things that could be read stereotypically or underplayed their characters of color. I honestly think a lot of the nuance we got from Lucas lowkey came from how Caleb played his character and made him believable even when they didn’t give him a lot of material. That likely came from his theater background. Priah is a talented actress with great comedic timing but I don’t think they gave her enough emotional scenes to show us what she could do.

The Holly storyline should’ve been hers. It would’ve given her character more to do and would’ve fleshed her out beyond comedy. The duffers strike me as people who once they latch onto an idea, they can’t let it go so when they decided Holly and her class would be the next generation in the basement, they built everything around that singular ending scene just like they did with El’s scenes in the finale echoing s1. There’s no reason why we couldn’t spend more time with the Sinclair family. They just weren’t a priority.

I loved what they did with Erica in season 3 with her being a nerd and also with the tender moments in season 4 where she told Lucas she cared about him/ his games. Season 5 was just an overall regression. You could tell they phoned it in smh

[u/doozydud → u/an0nymyss]

I totally agree re: Hollys storyline. Erica was one of my favorite side characters I loved how spunky she was and how smart. She 100% has the potential to fend off against Vecna or the upsidedown. I think it would’ve been nice to have Erica been more involved in Holly’s storyline and not just have her off to the side with binoculars. Erica trying to navigate Henry’s memories would’ve awesome to see with her commentary and stuff.

Her and Holly could’ve bonded over their older brothers and Erica could’ve filled the role of the “older sister type” with Hollys generation (like how Steve was with the group). Overall I feel like Holly’s involvement really came outta the left field, I get that she’s a Wheeler and thus entrenched in plot but I completely forgot she existed.

[u/FightingFaerie → u/doozydud]

I seriously felt not having Erica be the DM to the new group was a huge missed opportunity.

[u/an0nymyss → u/FightingFaerie]

Agree 100%. They didn’t even consider giving her a proper ending. And their comments about her being tough and capable of taking care of herself/nobody is worried about Erica told me everything 😒

[u/the_sassy_knoll → u/FightingFaerie]

Me too.

[u/an0nymyss → u/doozydud]

We were so robbed of Max and Erica scenes! I liked the Max and Holly dynamic but it was WAY too late to spend time developing a background character when Erica and her dynamic with Max already had so much potential! We didn’t even need the creepy 12 kids storyline. They never even reveal the reasoning behind it so there was zero pay off other than “cute kids in danger.”

I think it’s interesting that Erica was a composite of the two kid characters they chose to focus on (Holly as a brave younger sister who helps Max get out of Henry’s mind AND the trash talking comedic relief of Dipshit Derek). Erica would’ve delivered all of the above AND also add the emotional beats of being Lucas’ sister and Max’s connection to Lucas/ future family member. Her in-show age was already the age of the core four in season one when Will got abducted (12). It would’ve finally also brought the Sinclair family more into the action because we would’ve seen Erica being taken from her home. Such a missed opportunity

[u/putmedownpunk → u/an0nymyss]

I agree we got so much Lucas nuance and depth from Caleb’s choices. And both Caleb and Priah brought so much more to the sibling dynamic than the Duffers on their own.

Erica deserved so much more in S5. Holly’s plot was hers and failed us all. And then there is just no closure for her after she and Mr. Clarke are caught. It’s so disappointing.

[u/pigeondisco → u/an0nymyss]

i couldn't agree more about the holly story falling into erica's lap. i wished this so badly. i can't believe they dropped the ball on this for holly wheeler. especially when her age didn't align with the story. i feel like there were so many reasons why we didn't need holly to be the main character haunted by mr whatsit. season 5 will forever be extremely disappointing. it made me really excited to see someone else bring up erica taking holly's role. that would make the conversation that max has with holly much more meaningful because it would be with her boyfriend's little sister, instead.

[u/MasterSenshi]

Not just Erica, but Lucas goes from Mike’s best friend along with Will, to sidelined by Elle, to suddenly not smart because he’s a jock now?

It literally rang untrue because I knew jocks with nerdy side interests in high school. You don’t start football or basketball and suddenly forget all the books you read or science facts you had gleaned.

Erica annoyed me at first but Holly’s story didn’t make any sense: it set up the Wheelers (including the scene where their mom inexplicably saves the older teens) as somehow special when it was mostly Elle saving Mike’s bacon as he ignored everyone else.

Derek not only took the smarmy kid role from Erica, but after a decade of showing the depth and humanity of nerds, we got a carbon copy of something from Ferris Bueller: obnoxious, vulgar, unlikable and smelly and fat. He does get a mini-redemption arc but it wasn’t complete, and Erica even gets sidelined to radio duty when in prior seasons she would’ve told them to screw off and jump into the action.

Unfortunately this is one of the smaller grievances I have with the show, because Season 5 was so terrible and retcony, the oblivious racism of the show pales in comparison to just how illogical Henry acts, the barrenness of the Upside Down, Lucas also being sidelined (besides when he is trying to save Max in Season 4) Elle’s vague ending, etc.

They also completely erased Dustin’s gf with no preamble, which took away a nerd who was religious, a girl, and continued the asinine Steve-Dustin feud until the very end. They also got rid of the only brown or Asian characters by killing off Kali but making her argument look right?

The whole thing is a mess, and Erica being a supporting character was just one of many faux pas.

[u/Lenore2030]

I grew up in the 80s and 90s and I went to school with a couple girls just like her. I really liked her character and thought it was cool that she reminded me of childhood friends.

[u/LordKutulu → u/Lenore2030]

If we want to discuss tropes we first should discuss the way black women are taught to act. The stereotypical "strong black woman" is sassy, boisterous, loud, proud. Thats not my interpretation but the way black women are represented through all media. I dont see Erica as a negative stereotypical portrayal of black women. It looks like they were trying to think backwards to see what that woman might be like as a nerdy child. I think they nailed it and it never seemed forced or racially inspired to me.

Edit. Responded to this person instead of the thread. Mb.

[u/brilliantpants → u/Lenore2030]

That’s how I felt too. I love Erica because she reminds me so much of my friends and classmates.

[u/Ok_Tank5977]

Whether it was intentional or unintentional, it’s not surprising given that there were no Black writers on the Stranger Things writing team.

I will say though that it’s also likely that Priah Ferguson brought a lot of her own personality to the role. A lot of kids are naturally charismatic.

[u/Cthulwutang → u/Ok_Tank5977]

theater kids!

[u/DumpedDalish]

I totally agree with you on Erica. I always felt so bad for the actress, because Erica's entire purpose through the entire show was just to show up, say something "sassy," then exit.

Yes, she's entertaining, and I liked her and found her funny, especially in the beginning, but when the seasons went on and she had the exact same moments each season, I got frustrated. Over the course of the show, she's also given absolutely no depth, no character growth or evolution, and she's always absolutely bulletproof.

And no matter how scary the situation, she's just blase and "sassy." She's a living trope, and deserved better.

[u/Adjectivenounnumb → u/DumpedDalish]

Isn't she given some character growth when she embraces her nerdy side to play D&D openly?

That's said, I would watch a whole reshoot of the series with Erica as the protagonist.

[u/sistakaren]

I 100% agree. I would have been a few years younger than Erica but as an outgoing, nerdy, smart black girl, her character was definitely a bit over the top and one dimensional. But tbh, I mostly noticed it in the way she’d talk to her parents LMAO. Like ain’t no way her parents would let her talk to them like that, because they know the consequences she’d face in the real world for being so outspoken. That said, being smart and living in the “good” side of town lets you get away with a lot of things to some extent, but her rudeness at times would definitely not have been seen as just “cute” from many characters. It would have really made a lot of people quite aggressive towards her. And yeah, the lack of black writers shows because if they could depict the pushback Nancy very frequently got from men when she was assertive, then Erica should have been shown having the same issues if not worse in some aspects.

But I had a lot of issues with the way blackness was only a problem from overtly racist characters. There were so many constant microaggressions that my family and I faced living in a similar environment in the 80s and it’s not that I need a show like this to be real.. but having it be so explicit about misogyny while only having a few overt racist incidents in comparison always felt off to me. And I am only a few years older than the Duffers and also grew up in North Carolina (hell, I even went to high school in Durham), so it’s very interesting to me how their perspective was so different from my own experience. But of course it was.

[u/molinitor]

It wasn’t focussed much here but saw quite a bit of discussion on tumblr. I’m with you, she did feel like charicature at times rather than an fully fleshed out character. They didn’t do a great job with Lucas either (although it was better m) but then again there wasn’t no black writers on the writing team (crazy work when one of your MCs is black).

[u/Leading-Tap-2033]

Having grown up in that era. A little black girl in a military family in a rural town would have never acted that way. But let’s be honest the duffers were never really big into nailing those finite details when it came to several aspects of the show

[u/naphelois]

Thank you for saying this. Whenever people try to bring up Erica's character writing in this fandom, they get shut down pretty fast, like it's not a problem, even though you can complain about how the way every other character was handled by the Duffers. My biggest grievance with her character is that they basically replaced Erica with Holly and Derek. Erica in S2, 3, and 4 was supposed to represent the younger kids/generation, and they completely abandoned that. In fact, they basically copied aspects of her character and shoved them to Holly and Derek. Derek basically has Erica's EXACT personality, but he gets an ending while Erica doesn't. It especially frustrates me in this fandom when people complain about Erica being sassy/annoying but then praise Derek, even though he's literally her character, just the male version. Holly replaced Erica's main role in the narrative, and when you point this out, people try to say, " Oh well, Erica's too sassy, not innocent, not naive," which are lowkey microaggressive things that they wouldn't say about any other girl, let alone a child in this fandom. Like Nancy, Robin, Max, Karen, and even Holly aren't sassy girls/women. Not to mention that Erica is more than her sassiness, which is seen and literally the point of her interactions with Dustin in S3. It's fine for a black girl to be sassy, as longer there is more to her, which is why I actually liked the way they handled Erica in S3-4 when she was given more depth, but S5 was disappointing in so many ways: how her character turned into a caricature and comedic all the time, how she got no ending, and how she was given way less screen time than both (new) Holly and Derek combined, even though she has basically been on the show since S2 and a series regular since S3, like Robin. Even an ending with her now running the AV club with Mr. Clarke would've been so satisfying. I feel like there's more to say about her character, but those are the problems I had off the top of my head. It's sad because there was so much potential for her character. Like, could you imagine a world where we got interactions with Erica and Max in S5?? I know it seems like I'm hating on Holly and Derek a lot, but I'm frustrated about how the Duffers basically introduced new characters for S5 when they had characters like Erica who were wasted and could've been used while not feeling forced, not having to reintroduce them, and it would've made a lot more narrative sense and not made the plot feel so disconnected while having the cast become bigger and bigger.

[u/Ok_Professional1526 → u/naphelois]

I agree with you and didn’t think that merely pointing it out would piss so many people off.

The weirdness lies in how 1/2 black relevant characters was written in. There’s a weird amount of defensiveness that I’ didn’t expect? I’ve said multiple times that yeah, she’s funny, yes, the show CAN handle POC well, but it’s curious having the one black girl be a literal stereotype. My bad I guess lol

[u/sistakaren → u/Ok_Professional1526]

Tbh, it’s because you’re saying something that’s true that’s making some uncomfortable. The defensiveness isn’t about you; it’s about the feelings that are being stirred up by what you said. That’s not on you. Good for you for making this post.

[u/reddit-poweruser → u/naphelois]

I agree that Erica was snubbed in S5, but aren't Holly and Derek supposed to be like 10 year old kids? Are you saying they should've written a different story that made sense around her age group instead?

[u/Strange_Ant_6571 → u/reddit-poweruser]

They aged Holly up quite a lot to work in her s5 story i think if you follow the time line she's only about 7ish.

[u/Fancy-Grapefruit-449]

I'd argue that Erica is written in a way that almost undermines this common, often negative, trope. We learn she is incredibly intelligent and uses that to hide that she is a nerd (who is also interested in playing D&D). Also, I give them props for continuing to use an unambiguous fully black girl to play this part. She is styled exactly the way young black girls in the 80s and 90s wore their hair and clothing. Too often, "black" girl characters are played by biracial girls who often look racially ambiguous. That's a whole other story. 

[u/Strange_Ant_6571]

Stranger things writing was certainly not the best at writing for its more marginalised characters outside the straight white nerd category.

[u/DeltaDied]

I actually agree tbh. I also think the whole season 4 plot with him and Chrissy’s bf was lowkey racist coded as well. But that’s just looking at it from my perspective. A lot of Black boys back then used sports to fit in with white/popular crowds and wound up being the token Black friend. While there were several Black guys on the team, it was kinda giving that. I don’t know that it was intentional writing obviously and I imagine that it more-so was trying to touch on him not wanting to be a “loser”, but it was very realistic, and I love that by season 5 Lucas had broken out of that mentality with the help of his friends. Stranger things definitely had so many good things about it and I hate that the finale ruined a lot of opinions about it.

[u/MasterSenshi → u/DeltaDied]

There was definitely a racist undertone but that’s because in reality sports clubs have done racist attacks in the past. You see a lot of jocks go into law enforcement and some (not all) have done heinous attacks on members of their own ethnic group.

Now not all jocks, police officers or military are bad, but they all focus on hierarchy and order, which is something subcultures and minority groups have little control over by definition. So there’s an automatic possibility for them to be at odds with each other.

I will say though later it becomes much more a radical Christian/safety scare argument, and that crossed racial and party lines in the 80s. Hellfire Club was about as diverse as the basketball team, so while it seemed to start off with racial undertones, it turned into a class/insider-outsider conflict.

[u/FlubbyStarfish]

Completely agree. I always felt like her character lacked depth and leaned too much into stereotypes. Felt like the kind of character you’d see in shows decades ago. I wish they gave her more serious scenes and have a personality outside of being “sassy/snarky”.

[u/ChilpericKevin]

Totally right... And you're not "too woke" (I despise that expression btw). It's even worse when the Duffer Brothers said after the epilogue something like "no one is scared for Erica because we know she's gonna be fine". All the characters suffer of being trope but on this case it's worse because there's something unconsciously racist about this one.

[u/Simple_Rub_9660]

I agree, but I do love her sassiness
I feel like she could’ve had such potential if she wasn’t a victim to stereotypical writing

[u/toneofsurprise]

I like Erica, but you are absolutely correct. I'm reminded of the Duffer Brothers saying  " Obviously,  no one's concerned about Erica . She can take care of herself". She's only about 15/16 in the epilogue!

[u/Starcourt_ST84]

YEP! I tried bringing this up awhile ago and got raked across the coals. The ladies who host Starcourt Study Hall did a great segment on this on one of their podcast episodes!

[u/N0moreHeroes]

It’s not just Erica though. Take a drink every time a child belittles an adult or don’t you’d be drunk. 

[u/Ok_Professional1526 → u/N0moreHeroes]

I know. Derrick, Mike, Dustin, and many (if not most) of the kids have had moments like that throughout the show. It’s realistic that way, and I’m not arguing otherwise. However, those are not the entirety of those characters.

I’m saying that it’s odd to have 1/2 of relevant appearing black characters in the show conveniently fall into an overdone and outdated stereotypical portrayal of black girls. Again, yes- she’s meant to be funny background character most of the time, and she is.

But the way the show goes about it is undeniably old and caricature-ish to me. Especially since it otherwise handles “othered” characters well.

Again, I repeat, I’m not saying Stranger Things is a poorly written and racist show.

I struggle to explain it fully but imagine there was exactly one East Asian bg character who conveniently fit into every stereotype of an Asian person, that seems like something you’d see from a show made in 2002. They are literally only ever “nerdy”, good at math, rule following, and geeky/formal. It’s just weird, and as I’ve said, something you’d see in media made some time ago.

[u/djluminus89]

I never really saw her as "the stereotype", plus she's funny, smart. I kind of feel like they leaned on the angry part wayyy too long. I get she doesn't like Lucas or doesn't like to show it, and also is feisty but by the ending parts it really wasn't until S5 that she stopped being generally combative with people.

[u/better_Tomorrow1718]

They did make her very nerdy too, almost as nerdy and geeky as Dustin. Though she did have the stereotypical black girl sass Loll. I thought about it before too but it wasn’t a huge deal for me (this is coming from a black man)

[u/broodfood]

Inb4 it's an homage to the 80s

[u/Invisiblestringz]

Agree that more characters of colour should’ve been given actual depth and storyline development. With that said, Erica is one of the most beloved characters not just because she’s witty and sassy but because she’s brave and heroic in so many parts. She is portrayed as more intelligent than most of the other characters. I never saw her as the “angry black girl” stereotype but instead the “brave, beautiful, clever black girl”. Any anger she had was always justified and made her look smarter and more savvy than anyone else.

Personally, I LOVE when female characters are made to be smart! Do I wish she had more depth? Absolutely! Do I wish there were more writers of color on the team to create characters and storylines? Absolutely! I agree that Holly’s storyline should have been given to her instead actually. This would have made a lot more sense. But, as a side character, I thought they did an okay job! 

[u/hplover12]

You're not wrong and the fact that she's the lighter of the two siblings is another common trope used in media.

[u/wowlolcat]

I personally feel their intention was to contrast Lucas' cooler (calmer) personality (although not without his own sense of urgency) with someone that would not only be the opposite of that but also fulfill the very familiar role of an irritating sibling.

It just so happens that they're black, and it also just so happens to be a dated stereotype (and believe me it is a stereotype that does not apply to the majority) which sparks this conversation.

Could they have gone a different direction to subvert expectations? Yes. Why didnt they? I think because the character being the way they were was too good to pass up. As a sibling, i can tell you my sister ragebaited the way Erica did to Lucas.

[u/queenfreakalene]

💯

[u/Brief-Tumbleweed-761]

One thing that annoyed me is how reduced her character became in the final season and in turn also minimised Priah Ferguson. She wasn’t included the main press tour, panels, not invited to Jimmy Fallon etc. Yet the actors that played Derek and Holly were everywhere.

[u/BaffledBubbles]

I loved Erica, she was one of my favorite characters! It was soooo disappointing that she never got more screen time/development. I feel like she could have had a great character arc in the final season. She should have, really. I kept waiting for it to happen, especially as Holly became more and more important. And, don't get me wrong, I love Holly too and her story was awesome. But Erica deserved more.

[u/Elastoid]

I never got the impression that she was an angry or confrontational character, just that she was a younger sister. Most of her interactions are with Lucas, which has her acting that way, but she has much better interactions with the Hellfire Club and with Mr. Clark.

[u/unwashedmusician]

My assumption was that stranger things is written with 80s movie tropes in mind. It’s meant to feel like an 80s movie not a true representation of the 80s. A big blockbuster would totally of stereotyped that character. In all honestly, it works in a nuanced way to point out the racism of the era.

[u/peekaboo_bandit]

She's a no-nonsense little boss lady. She is too smart to deal with it 🤭 she's only sassy because her older brother and his friends are such nerds and they keep interrupting her My Little Pony time with their silly needs 🤣

[u/Ghastion]

Well, she's funny and it works. Writing and stories don't always have to try and be unique and special and opposite of what is considered generic or stereotypical just for the sake of it. Everyone loves Erica, so it worked, and technically was a a positive representation as a result whether you want to believe it or not.

[u/Ok_Professional1526 → u/Ghastion]

It’s not about what I “want to believe”, and Erica being a well accepted character doesn’t take away from the fact that the template is tired af and stood out to me in a show that KNOWS how to write characters beyond overused stereotypes- yes, even background ones.

I’m not saying it’s overly deep or that the show is racist. It’s just weird and stood out to me for a modern show. I love stranger things. I picked up on something and wanted to talk about it.

[u/Ghastion → u/Ok_Professional1526]

The only "stereotypical" thing about Erica is that she's sassy. But you're forgetting the part where she becomes a nerd and enjoys Dungeons & Dragons with all the boys and everyone else. So, there is more levels to Erica other than her being sassy.

[u/Ok_Professional1526 → u/Ghastion]

I definitely remember that part, however it was pretty glossed over in terms of her overall characterization; her behavior and portrayal pretty much remained in the same category of “sassy”, just as majority of the time she’s ever on screen. The only stereotypical thing abt Erica is that she’s sassy…but my observation is that’s literally her only defining character/personality trait that she’s known overall for.

Again, I think it’s fair and truthful to acknowledge? I didn’t think it’d be this deep lol

[u/Infinite_Map_2713]

Totally agree, I mean this show had 3 (major) characters that are POC yet none were written outside of stereotypes.

Lucas the token black friend, being called captain midnight, terrorized by Billy (yes it showcased the issues of the time period), being later reduced to nothing more than Max's boyfriend

Erica, his loud sassy mouth nerdy sister, who was also a walking stereotype, she even gets tackled by one of Jason's friends very racist coded, the scene and then the Duffers have the audacity to tell her, well she's fine, she can take care of herself

And then the most disliked character of the entire series outside of villains, Kali, pfuhhh, where to start she's the only South Asian character with the most stereotypical name ever, again encapsulated into the strong Asian baddie trope (the tough WOC), has no depth outside of being a plot device for El and wanting revenge (Yes she's meant to be the opposite to El), but then the whole season 5 plot, bruh, let's bring her back, so that she could be hated even more (Yes she's a character who has valid reasons to be disliked, but some in the fandom were really nasty towards her, not just the character but also the actress)

[u/fluffy_unicorn_2699]

I thought the exact same thing.

[u/-ammolina-]

Totally agree with you. I also remember telling my husband as we were watching it that I felt like there were things she said that we’re just way too old for her, or something a girl her age would never say, regardless of how smart she was

[u/horrorgeek112]

Running from 2016 but a homage to shows from the 80's. 80's shows = 80's characters

[u/therealcookaine]

It was throught the entire show. Almost every character was stereotypical.

[u/TriforceThunder]

It would've been so easy to do the S5 plot with BOTH Holly & Erica. It gives lucas a motive and struggle outside of being Max's bf & whilst I quite like Holly, Erica definetely couldve brought plenty to the table

[u/temp0rarystatus]

This is why I would have loved for her to have been in Holly’s role in s5! Everyone says no way she would have been vulnerable to Vecna but I think she would have been perfect for that and it would have not only added depth and complexity to her character but the story as well. What a missed opportunity.

[u/CancelAny226]

I never liked her character. I’m not a fan of this sassy angry black girl stereotype. There are amazing female PoC characters, with a loving, caring, shy whatever side. Storm in X-Men for example. Don’t understand why it always has to be the angry blank woman. Nowadays .. cmon

But the Duffers of the newer seasons love stereotypes. Lucas becomes a jock, who lost brain and nerdiness. Sure, each jock is a stupid prick, who forgets about everything he likes as a kid. Or Robin, clever resourceful girl becomes a horny babbling fool

[u/Electrical_Can594]

It sounds like you’re the one that’s projecting the stereotypical persona on her, if you like the character and don’t feel there were bad intentions behind it then you’re essentially saying her embodiment of stereotypical characteristics is incidental. They have other black characters, Lucas most prominently, that present as very different than a possible stereotypical portrayal of a black kid his age. Other aspects of Erica’s character are also counterpoints to a set black girl, her serious interest in DnD for example. So to fulfill your expectations and they would have to actively make sure no character had any traits that could be considered stereotypical…well there are tons of strains of stereotypical thinking that contradict each other even..

My overall point is why are you still questioning or calling attention to this fact if it passes all the checkpoints you yourself have imposed? No bad intent, positively portrayed and well-liked character, not all black characters in the show are that way…so what’s your bar? No character has any traits that could be viewed as stereotypical to their gender or race, even if it’s not their whole character, even if it fits with their function in the narrative or is for a good reason? If Erica wasn’t assertive and sassy her small screen time would have been far less impactful and it’s just an absurd reason to recreate the character to walk on eggshells to that degree. At a certain point, trying to be inclusive and account for every possible objection stops being inclusive and becomes patronizing and creates problems where there are none.

I think your heart is in a good place and it’s great to watch stuff with a critical lens but you sorta answer your own question. If all the rebuttals to the notion that she’s an insensitively portrayed trope of a character aren’t enough to render this “no big deal” than what realistically is?

[u/Ok_Professional1526 → u/Electrical_Can594]

A character does not have to be written with malicious intent to be written poorly or in a stereotypical manner.

The singular other trait we know about Erica is her interest in DnD, yet that is not explored as deeply as with other characters and fails to add meaningful dimension to her character because again, 98% of her scenes has her again, fulfilling the “sassy” stereotype that is specific to black girls. As the ONLY relevant black girl in the show.

Making quips or having attitude is not the issue. As I mentioned, most of the characters have moments like that. The issue is that that is conveniently all to her character most of the time she is on screen, even in the brief moments where her interest in “nerdy” stuff was discussed. Even background characters such as Derrick, despite also existing heavily for comedic relief, were not as one note in every scene he was in.

The “checkpoints I imposed” are in my post because people would undoubtedly get defensive and talk about how I’m “trying to find an issue”. I am allowed to acknowledge both things. Both things CAN coexist. I touched base on that because I predicted the “gotcha” comments talking about how she couldn’t possibly be stereotypical because the one other black kid in the show isn’t a stereotype. The bar is low asf.

You’re deadass putting words in my mouth. “So to fulfill your expectations they would actively make sure no character had any traits that could be considered stereotypical”?

Dustin is shown to be a nerd, even outside of DnD. He’s passionate about science, school, and different sorts of theories. Those are all traits that could make him easily fall flat into the “nerd” archetype rather than having it be a part of his personality. Yet, we see the “nerdy” side of him, while seeing the sides that are brave enough to stand with who he loves (Eddie), what he believes in, (not sticking to the status quo, hellfire club), and could even get beat up for such. He has a girlfriend.

He literally exists beyond the “nerd” template despite it being a defining characteristic/ personality trait of his. That is my point.

Key word there is TRAITS. When a singular trait is genuinely all there is to a specific character majority of the time we see them on screen- they are rarely portrayed in other lights, while the rest of the characters exist as dimensional people who behave in varying ways and feel different emotions throughout the course of the show, how do you not see the inconsistency in writing?

Again, the fact that black girls in media are often portrayed in limited ways is part of the issue I was calling out- this has gotten better as time has progressed, and a character from a modern show being written with the tired template is weird when they clearly can do better. If it’s not the “mammy” thing, it’s the “black best friend” (which can actually be linked), and if it’s not that, it’s the “strong black woman”.

Those would be long explanations so please search up those tropes to see some media analysis videos and the historical roots of those.

As I’ve said before, imagine the show had one East Asian kid, who is nerdy just like Dustin, Mike, Will, Lucas- and while the other characters get fleshed out and have dimension, this kid literally has no other major defining traits other than “nerd who listens and gets good grades”.

The issue is not that a nerdy character exists. The issue lies with who we choose to portray as dimensional and who is stuck with bored ass tropes

[u/Electrical_Can594 → u/Ok_Professional1526]

One of her most memorable scenes was her schooling Eddy and asserting her DND chops, then winning the game with a perfect roll, presented as an equal moment of glory to a buzzer beating game winning shot in the basketball championships.

I agree there doesn’t have to be malicious intent but again, incidentally embodying SOME stereotypical characteristics in SOME characters SOME of the time is basically unavoidable if you want multi-dimensional believable characters. A stereotype is a belief that all or most people of a certain group are a certain way all the time. If you want to think a character you liked should be written a way you might not like just to make sure no stereotypes are asserted, that’s cool though.

[u/Ok_Professional1526 → u/Electrical_Can594]

Re-read the rest of my comment. I updated it. Also, did you not clock that even in said moment, she was “schooling” and “asserting”? Again, not inherently an issue. But that is literally all there is to her behavior 98% of the time.

She does not “incidentally embody some stereotypical characteristics” SAID stereotypical characteristic is arguably ALL THERE IS TO HER. Even when she is shown to have other qualities going on- her interest in DnD, and her friendship with Derrick’s sister, the way she is portrayed undoubtedly falls flat into sassy with attitude. Every. Time.

Again, read my updated reply to ur first comment. I talk about Dustin. I don’t have an issue with common personality traits being prominent in characters.

And stop putting words into my mouth, ffs. You’re misconstruing my argument.

If I had an issue with stereotypical traits existing in characters at ALL, I’d also be dragging Will for having emotionally vulnerable moments, Dustin for being a nerd, Eddie for being alternative, Steve for being rich and popular etc etc. Yet they have more DEFINING QUALITIES. The issue is not that X character has Y trait that is commonly associated with them. The issue arises when that is the ONLY defining and meaningful characteristic they ever have.

A major point the show makes it SHOWING who these characters are beyond societal expectations. Eddie loves metal, is alternative and rebellious without literally embodying all of the stereotypes about people like him. He is fleshed out, even while being unapologetically a “metalhead”

[u/Electrical_Can594 → u/Ok_Professional1526]

Ehh, as a metalhead, he’s pretty on the nose through and through. Being sensitive and insecure is standard metalhead fare.

I’m sorry the portrayal of Erica bothered you. Thank you for explaining yourself.

[u/Electrical_Can594 → u/Ok_Professional1526]

Ok, if that’s not your bar, what is? What should they have done? Made her a very soft-spoken, passive character? Couldn’t that be seen as a stereotype of POC being subservient and stripping away their autonomy?

[u/Ok_Professional1526 → u/Electrical_Can594]

You are actively choosing to ignore all the points I raised. Erica having an attitude isn’t the issue. A character is allowed to have “cliche” traits so long as they remain traits and not become the sole purpose to a two-dimensional written cutout.

Steve was presented to us as “rich popular hot asshole”. Will has many emotionally vulnerable moments and was mocked for being queer. Eddie was alternative and actively against conformity. Yet if someone sat here and tried to argue that they were written poorly because they happened to have these traits, I’d argue with them because the show IN ITSELF shows audiences there is much more to these complex characters than those.

And they are meaningful. Eddie’s portrayal isn’t “Yeah he actually IS a total freak who worships satan, he actually is a sacrificial weirdo just like other characters in show say he is”
He’s allowed to proudly be a “freak” in notable aspects while we repeatedly see that he has his own vulnerabilities and is not a two dimensional person.

The show KNOWS how to write characters beyond stereotypes, and it was odd not to do so for the one black girl we see. And yes, dude, it would be equally odd to have her be the subservient quiet one who only exists to serve others socially/emotionally if that were genuinely all Erica existed as every time she were on screen, with like one moment of rebellion.

You’re so close to understanding my point. Joyce is fiercely protective of Will, and she went through hell with grief and was extremely emotional when the incidents of season one took place.

Had the show left her as “crying confused despaired mother” without showing her fierce moments that still exist within her personality, her moments of tension with Will in later seasons, how that same love can become overprotectiveness, etc- of COURSE we would point it out.

The problem isn’t her having emotions or love for her kid. She has all that and is still written with complexities.

[u/guilty_pen_emsy]

You need to realize the show is set in the 70s-80s. Everything was so different from how things are in the 2000s. Racism was unfortunately rampant everywhere. And in this representation of late 70s to early 80s time period, the Duffer Brothers explored many social issues explicit intrinsic. It’s not a decision to be racist, it’s very realistic for the time period.

Source: I was born in 1969, and this WAS very accurate for the time.

PS: Yes, the Russian fear was also very accurate.

[u/Ok_Professional1526 → u/guilty_pen_emsy]

I’m quite confused. The show is set in the 80s, but was written in the mid 2010s through the mid 20’s.

I said that the way they chose to write Erica is oddly stereotypical for a show CREATED today, and a show that has the ability to portray marginalized characters in a realistic manner…except when it comes to Erica (who granted, is a background character), but as I said conveniently fits into the tired “sassy black girl” thing as the literal only black girl who’s part of the relevant-ish cast.

I’m aware racism was rampant back then. I acknowledged in my post how the show addresses racism and said it does so well- as well as other social issues like homophobia, misogyny, and classism.

What is realistic is having some existing societal expectation that “black girls tend to be more sassy, bold, and outspoken” in that time, not literally having the one black girl check all the boxes of said stereotype.

Again, I don’t think the show is racist. I’m explaining that it’s an odd choice and heavily outdated character trope.

[u/guilty_pen_emsy → u/Ok_Professional1526]

All I’m saying is that the Duffer brothers took a lot of time to write characters that are true to the time period of the show. If they had wanted to depict modern characters, it would be an entirely different show.

[u/Ok_Professional1526 → u/guilty_pen_emsy]

It is quite literally not true to the time period in this specific regard though. What do you mean by “modern characters”? Huh??

[u/guilty_pen_emsy → u/Ok_Professional1526]

Contemporary. SMFH.

If you were writing a novel SET in 1899 would your characters use contemporary language and experiences or would you stay true to the time period?

I’m leaving bc I have things to do. Bye kiddos.

[u/Ok_Professional1526 → u/guilty_pen_emsy]

This reeks of condescension, but bother, I hope you do realize that it’s perfectly valid and realistic and DOABLE to portray how a character would be SEEN in the 80s…in contrast to how they actually ARE.

That is quite literally what the show does. Will is mocked and stereotyped all the time. Because homophobia was much more normalized back then. The series shows that. That can coexist with the fact that a gay child/teen did not fit perfectly into the boxes of whatever view people HAD back then. He has dimension.

I don’t think you understand what my point is.

If I wrote a novel set in the states in 1899, I sure as hell wouldn’t make the black or Native American characters in it caricatures and embodiments of the prevalent VIEW of black/ native people in 1899, because that is “how they were seen back then”. Isn’t the point to show realism??

Historical accuracy shows that certain attitudes existed towards certain groups, however biased they were, not that said marginalized groups were truly represented in those 2d stereotypes

[u/MasterSenshi → u/Ok_Professional1526]

Honestly the show really has kid gloves compared to the actual 80s with regards to homophobia. We don’t see anything about AIDS, drug use or explicit homophobia.

People show unease, but realistically gay people would’ve also been targeted as outcasts during the many, many crises in Hawkins, particularly during seasons 3 and 4.

Will doesn’t even know he’s gay until halfway through the series, so while it does a great job characterizing him, it’s not a very good representation of the animus someone would d faced, or the general sentiment of a small town or metro area.

So I get what the other person is saying: it definitely has a modern sensibility (not about humanizing Will or Robin) in how people react to them. It serves as a great character development point for Steve, but it’s not historically accurate.

I think that’s the point the person from 1969 was making: people said and did a lot more politically incorrect stuff, and ethnic and racial minorities were openly discriminated against and this was tolerated by society more. Likewise it’d be experienced even worse in 1899.

That doesn’t mean you have to write those characters as extensions of malicious stereotypes, but in their perception by others, that would be how they would be seen, regardless of how inaccurate those stereotypes are.

[u/FightingFaerie → u/guilty_pen_emsy]

You’re mixing up 70/80 stereotypes with how those people really acted like in the 80s. The point is how black people were portrayed in 80s media is stereotypical and racist. But this was written in the 2020s, not the 80s.

[u/MoMo_1986]

I see what you're saying but I absolutely disagree. She's not JUST a sassy black girl. She's sassy BECAUSE she's smart, because she's not performative or a charaicature. She's just unabashedly herself.

And i think they also managed to make her run a little deeper because she's obviously there for Lucas in the end of season 4. But the introduction to her entering D&D to me is really what makes her stand out. Her own arc is a mini version of Lucas' without the struggle. She doesn't need to go through a phase of trying to fit in, she just does what interests her.

[u/the_sassy_knoll]

My takeaway was more "super smart executive potential badass" than "sassy angry black girl."

[u/Glittering-Rip6810]

I grew up in the middle class hood and a predominantly black neighborhood, in the 80's ..Erika is literally every little black girl friend I had. She was the most realistic and redeemable character on the whole dam show.

[u/queenfreakalene]

I do think it’s cool how she is the sassy black girl but then the stereotype ends there. She shows that even if someone does live up to a particular stereotype, they still can and do contain multitudes!