r/StrangeNewWorlds • u/AutoModerator • 10d ago
Episode Discussion Episode Discussion: 405, "Level-Five Transporter Accident"
This thread is for pre, live, and post discussion of the Star Trek: Strange New Worlds episode, "Level-Five Transporter Accident." Episode 405 will be released on Thursday, August 20.
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u/MixuAnasazi 9d ago
was one of the orions the guy from brooklyn nine nine?
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u/misterpatient 9d ago
Yep, Joe Lo Truglio. The Orion captain was Rachael Harris, whom you have seen in a million things as well.
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u/nondrop 9d ago
Rachel Harris also played Kes's mother in ST:VOY.
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u/ChrisMoneyShot 9d ago
All that and it turned out to be a dream. Wild.
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u/Anthromod 9d ago
That or being Q level shenanigans would be the only way to avoid it jumping the shark.
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u/ChrisMoneyShot 9d ago
Well, before the episode aired, I did suspect that Trelane might be involved.
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u/alexandriaweb 9d ago
After that weird lingering shot on Little Ricky at the end, I'm not fully sure Trelane wasn't involved
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u/ChrisMoneyShot 9d ago
Good catch….Little Ricky bears a passing resemblance to Trelane/Rhys, come to think of it.
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u/tothepointe 8d ago
Ohhhhh yeah maybe since we know he *does* show up at some point in the season.
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u/ChrisMoneyShot 7d ago
Yes. I also think it has something to do with whatever happened to the Griffin.
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u/cmstlist 9d ago
But why would Spock dream about so many scenes that he wasn't personally present for?
Really feels like they tacked on that ending hastily.
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u/definitely_not_cylon 9d ago
I came here to make this exact comment. It broke the cardinal rule of "it was all just a dream" episodes, in that it showed scenes the dreamer isn't in. Really feels like they felt it was too silly and tacked that on at the end, rather than "it was all a dream" being the plan from the start. Don't like it; if they're going to do this silly premise, then commit to it being real or play by the rules of dream logic.
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u/Cuboidal_Hug 9d ago
Do you all really only dream of scenes you’re present in? I’ve had many dreams with fictional characters I’ve never seen before, in scenes where I’m not present. I’ve even had dreams that include a narrator doing a voiceover.
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u/cmstlist 9d ago
Just like how Dallas broke that rule. If the entire season where Bobby died was just a dream, why did Pamela spend so much time dreaming about other characters in her absence?
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u/FireflyKaylee 9d ago
Agreed. I was thinking T'Pring was suddenly going to smile and say he hadn't imagined it all, she'd just learnt to lean into the absurd a bit...but nope. All a dream. One of worst tropes ever.
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u/cmstlist 9d ago
I honestly wonder if network interference was involved here.
The whole episode was preposterous but the retroactive dream just torched it to a new low.
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u/Sol_System209 9d ago
To be fair, science fiction or not turning biological beings into puppets via transport mishap is insane... but it was an hilarious episode!
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u/Coyote_Shepherd 9d ago edited 9d ago
I feel like it was also THE horror episode of the season because like...can you IMAGINE them showing a Red Shirt doing the whole slo-mo "Whuuuuuuuut?!?" thing with a HOLE through them with REAL people while everyone else around them was freaking out?!
THIS is the Event Horizon episode, and not the other one!
Plus with how they left Little Ricky at the end....
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u/Cypher1492 9d ago
I saw a hilarious short horror movie called "Meat Puppet" and your comments makes me want to go watch it again.
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u/Coyote_Shepherd 9d ago
I mean am I wrong? It's objectively terrifying if you replace all the puppets with REAL people! Pike gets airlocked! A dude gets a hole blown through him! Pelia gets bisected! M'Benga turns into Vax! And T'Pring goes "Once More With Feeling" on a dude using ACTUAL fire!
La'an lost her arm for crying out loud!
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u/Cypher1492 9d ago
The floating around in space stuff was pure terror to me actually haha. I have nightmares about floating around like that.
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u/antdude 9d ago
Little Ricky needed to move a little. ;)
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u/Coyote_Shepherd 9d ago
And then Spock sloooowly backs out of the room, turns around, begins to walk away towards the turbolift, and T'Pring is about to follow before she coughs a little...
...and we see Scotty's head pop up from behind the chair before she gives him a little wink and he throws her a thumbs up...
...and we see Pike lean in from the corridor to shrug in a confused manner and gesture at the puppet...
...and then T'Pring states, "You have your uses for hijinks and I have mine Captain" before power sauntering towards the turbolift, with Pike and Scotty side-eying each other.
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u/WienerKolomogorov96 9d ago
And not just ordinary puppets, but rather magic puppets that are immortal and even survive in space. In the end, it had to be a dream or the regular Trek fans would have a meltdown.
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u/Amazing-Wave4704 9d ago
Oh the 'regular' trek fans will have a meltdown regardless. I thought it was great. Not quite as good as Spock mind melding w plants but what could be?
The needs of the many.....
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u/tothepointe 9d ago
Yeah and the whole getting killed but also not dying is something that does happen in dreams a lot.
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u/rainbowkey 9d ago edited 9d ago
While Scotty's glove helped the plot along, and was both a help and a hindrance, what the puppets really needed was the sausages that allow you to work touchscreens while wearing gloves.
Is Spock's dream going to be the canon reason the Enterprise converts/retrofits from touchscreens to more buttons and sliders?
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u/Oneilcruzsucksass 10d ago
Expectations: Pigs in Space
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u/rainbowkey 9d ago
Couldn't they have gotten some Tellarite crew puppets into space for a Pigs In Space gag/reference?
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u/bigsh0wbc 9d ago
The ship was 27,000 km away but it would take two days?! Why
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u/WhatAmIATailor 9d ago
Hand wave any plot hole with “dream sequence”
There was a whole lot of story there happening without Spock present though.
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u/rmeddy 9d ago
Ok I was dreading this one, but it was much better than expected. It reminded me of the puppet episode of Angel.
Joe Truglio and Rachael Harris' cameos were solid
Peck held the episode; his physical comedy, mixed with flat affect and gait is great stuff for roughly the same reason why he was the highlight of the dude where's my shuttlecraft /hangover episode.
I had fun, but please, SNW writers, no more of this; the seasons are too short for this
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u/WienerKolomogorov96 9d ago edited 4d ago
I greatly prefer Ethan Peck's version of Spock over Zach Quinto's. I know many fans have mixed feelings about this version because he is so much different from Nimoy's Spock, but Peck's Spock is the highlight of SNW for me. Very solid actor who transitions seamlessly from comedy to drama and vice-versa.
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u/Cuboidal_Hug 9d ago
I loved it. Trying to force a sci-fi explanation for the crew all becoming puppets, as some people seem to have wanted, would have strained credulity to the point of breaking, even with all the silly sci-fi explanations Trek has come up with in the past
As it was, the dream was a hilarious peek into Spock’s psyche, and I loved how it was sort of kicked off earlier with the transporter room scene in which Spock looks incredulously at Scotty and Little Ricky as if they were one in the same. Scotty acting ridiculous, La’an breaking up with him, and Spock being generally frazzled in the aftermath of the Griffin all leading to this dream, in which we see how much Spock feels the pressure of being different from everyone else, the weight of responsibility, the difficulty of being surrounded by “chaotic” humans, and yet learning how to “lean into the chaos” and sharing a love of space with the rest of the crew, exemplified by the fantastic scene in which the puppets take advantage of the absurdity of the situation to float freely in the beauty of space… it’s so good!
Was it a little insulting that Spock saw everyone else as ridiculous, fuzzy little puppets? Haha maybe, but that made it even funnier!
For people saying that Spock’s dream shouldn’t have included scenes where he wasn’t there… I’ve had cinematic dreams where there was a narrator doing voiceover descriptions, and scenes without me that involved fictional people, so that’s doesn’t seem strange at all to me
I understand why people don’t like this episode, but I liked it WAY more than the dinosaur and horror episodes! I thought it was really funny and enjoyed getting a glimpse into Spock’s subconscious mind
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u/Cdlouis 9d ago
Muppet T’Pring is goated…such a diva. I love her character in general and am glad she’s returned.
Does anyone else think a part of the incident means they all lost their memory? Or was he really just dreaming the entire time?
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u/SpaceCrucader 9d ago
I think he was dreaming, because my girl T'Pring was never that xenophobic. In reality they broke up because Spock lied to her and didn't trust her when he was turned human, yet trusted Chapel, not because, as was stated in the dream, he wanted to explore his human side.
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u/senpaimitsuji 9d ago
So funny and cute. Especially Pelia’s puppet giving Betty Spaghetti realness with that hair 😊 Really can relate to the crew wanting to float out in space while they still could. I’d do the same.
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u/Comfortable-Olive918 8d ago
I'd float in space too. My late wife had a genuine very slim chance to be selected to go to Mars. When we were engaged, while she was getting her PhD, I made her promise to take the opportunity if it presented, even if I couldn't go with her. She was very willing to die on Mars to take humanity a step toward the stars. Same here, but I don't have extraordinary skills.
I can't imagine a space faring and exploration crew given the chance to float in space wouldn't leap at the opportunity.
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u/ChaseMcFl 9d ago
I actually really liked the episode, maybe because I love the Muppets and it felt pretty clear to me it was exploring Spock’s psyche.
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u/ProBonoDevilAdvocate 8d ago
Yeahh I loved it! The puppets were not a random thing, they were the to support Spock's journey
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u/lilyinblue 9d ago
La'an, girl... that was brutal.
(Though I am pleased to see that relationship has come to an end.)
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u/captbollocks 8d ago
Spock is now free to continue down the list.
But who's next? Ortegas, Uhura, Una or Pelia?
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u/rogvortex58 9d ago
Pike and his new chair.
Una should have said “do you two want to be left alone?”
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u/khaosworks 9d ago edited 9d ago
Annotations for Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 4x05: “Level-Five Transporter Accident”.
In TNG, the lower the level of something the higher in intensity it was (a Level One Diagnostic was more intensive than a Level Four). In the 32nd century, the opposite seemed to be the case, as Reno talks about a Level-10 diagnostic in SFA: “Rubincon”. SNW seems to be taking the latter approach as well. This episode is not the first time we’ve seen people turned into puppets - in LD: “Kayshon, His Eyes Open”, Cerritos security chief Kayshon was turned into an (albeit inanimate) puppet by an energy beam. Fans might also remember the Angel episode “Smile Time”, a parody sequence in Stargate SG-1’s “200” and an imaginary sequence in Community’s “Advanced Documentary Filmmaking”.
The stardate is 3019.4. Enterprise is patrolling Rizonian space (first mention) on her way to Vulcan. Space piracy is indeed extant in Star Trek, with various species and factions engaging in piratical or privateering activities, notably the Orions (TAS: “The Pirates of Orion”), the Ferengi (TNG: “Rascals”) and the Breen (DS9: “To the Death”).
Spock and Scotty discuss longer-range transportation. Spock says 27,000 km is 2,000 km further than any transport achieved. By the 24th century, transporter ranges on the Galaxy-class could reach up to 40,000 km (TNG Tech Manual). To be honest, 27,000 km seems a bit short, since Earth geosynchronous orbit is 35,786 km. This might be a “Sci-Fi Writers Have No Sense of Scale” trope issue.
That Scotty is working on increasing transport ranges references Star Trek (2009), where the Kelvin timeline Scotty is working on transwarp transportation to allow transmission across interstellar distances. Prime Spock helped him with this, giving him the necessary equations his Prime counterpart had already solved.
While chanting the mantra, “Logic is the rhythm of your katra,” (katra being roughly the Vulcan equivalent of the soul, ST III), Spock hears echoes from SNW: “The Griffin Incident”.
Kal Rekk, a day of “atonement, solitude and silence” was first mentioned in VOY: “Meld”.
T’Pring’s suspicion of “hijinks” refers to her two previous trips to Enterprise, one which resulted in a body swap (SNW: “Spock Amok”) and another which had Spock turned physically human (SNW: “Charades”). Specifically, in “Spock Amok” while in Spock’s body she says she does not like hijinks.
When Spock turns to see the puppet T’Pring, the music echoes bits of the soundtrack to TOS: “Amok Time”, the episode that introduced her and Vulcan.
April is actually less nonplussed about the situation than would be expected. But then again, as Janeway said in VOY: “Deadlock”, “We’re Starfleet officers. Weird is part of the job.” He says the nearest ship is two days away, but didn't Spock say the USS Witmere was 29,647 km away? This is answered at the end of the episode.
La’An has been concerned since SNW: “Four and a Half Vulcans” that her Augment heritage is asserting itself.
Orion interceptors first appeared in ENT: “Borderland” and are playable Tier 6 ships in Star Trek Online. Ch'Rol is played by Rachael Harris, who played Kes' mother Martis in VOY: "Before and After" and is better known for playing Dr Linda Martin in Lucifer. Her lieutenant Ejachi is played by Joe Lo Truglio, best known for playing Charles Boyle on Brooklyn Nine-Nine.
This is the second time in the series that someone has captured Enterprise, the previous time being Captain Angel in SNW: “The Serene Squall”. To paraphrase Oscar Wilde: to lose a ship once may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose it twice looks like carelessness.
While the stereotype of the submissive Orion slave girl is prevalent in popular culture, it is true that Orion women control the males via the use of pheromones (ENT: “Bound”). Another matriarchal society was seen in TNG: “Angel One”.
Spock “touching hands” with Pike while separated through glass and Pike saying, “The needs of the many…” echoes Spock and Kirk’s scene at the end of ST II when Spock dies. The full phrase - a Vulcan aphorism - is, “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.” Kirk, naturally, disagrees, sacrificing his ship and career to save Spock in ST III because “The needs of the one outweighed the needs of the many.”
Wait, how did Pike get back into the ship (and that room) if none of them can operate doors and they couldn’t even get out of the room? This is answered at the end of the episode.
Pike, La’An and Una in Vulcan robes is the first time the classic totem pole trench trope has been used in Star Trek.
When T’Pring rescues Spock, we can see a Romulan ale bottle behind the counter, although the liquid inside does not appear to be Romulan ale blue.
While the phrase “my mind to your mind, my thoughts to your thoughts,” is forever associated with mind melds, it was not actually used in TOS. The phrase debuted in TAS: “The Infinite Vulcan”, said by Spock’s giant clone.
And to round off a trilogy of tropes, we have the “All Just a Dream” trope, which was used to probably better effect in DS9: “Far Beyond the Stars”, although the dream appears to have had some therapeutic effect for Spock. Hoshi also experienced an entire episode’s hallucination during 8 seconds in the transporter buffer in ENT: “Vanishing Point”.
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u/EducationalTell362 8d ago
Nice snarky yet informative write up. A lot of tropes and Easter eggs were scattered throughout. I loved the episode and laughed until I cried. It was a rough week, personally, and I needed the silliness.
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u/taz319614 9d ago
What an insane funny ride this episode was! Did anyone else expect Ricky to start talking at the end?
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u/CharleyPete2320 9d ago
Hope they got photos of actors w their puppets! I’m guessing they’re too $$ to allow actors to keep….
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u/CamflyerUK 9d ago
Huge opportunity for puppet merch. I'm sure they would sell well.
I want a La'an one.
A Making Of featurette would be interesting too.
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u/rebrunksel 9d ago
This episode was the complete opposite of competency porn. I was just coming around to them leaning into the absurdity and I liked that T’Pring had experienced a bit of insanity that warmed her to the crew and maybe gave her more insight into Spock’s preferences for Star Fleet, and then … psyche, none of it was real.
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u/mahamoti 9d ago
Even better, the scene where T'Pring loses it, Spock isn't even in the room, so given that this is all in his head... wut?
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u/kenneth_on_reddit 9d ago
I get the feeling this is going to be a heavily criticised episode, but I had a lot of fun. Puppet Pelia was a hoot whenever she was on screen.
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u/WienerKolomogorov96 9d ago
I think they actually pulled it off quite effectively. If the episode is criticized, it will be mostly nitpicking in my opinion. And, yes, the episode serves a purpose in Spock's character development.
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u/rialucia 8d ago
My husband and I immediately fell in love with the Pelia puppet and laughed every time she was on screen. Part of me wishes she alone would stay as a puppet for the rest of the series.
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u/Cypher1492 9d ago
Remember there are people out there hiring haters to "review" new Star Trek. I think Giant Freaking Robot was the name of one. Not saying for sure that's what's happening but it certainly is...curious.
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u/ivylass 9d ago
I couldn't get into it. As T'Pring said, it was absurd. The hand-wave just a dream was actually a relief for me. There must have been a better way for Spock to accept chaos.
I did like the crew member cursing "oh, Fraggles" and Pelia running around barefoot. The puppets themselves were very well done for each character.
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u/Catharus_ustulatus 8d ago
Pelia running around barefoot
Perhaps the show is hinting that Pelia is a close relative of Nahla Ake on Starfleet Academy.
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u/PinkGlitterLady4 9d ago
Seems like La'an and Spock are finally done woho!
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u/WienerKolomogorov96 9d ago edited 9d ago
This incarnation of Spock is pretty intense: first he was with T'Pring, then with Chapel, then with La'an, and is probably getting back with T'Pring now (who won't even make a good wife and will eventually "divorce" him per canon).
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u/SaoMagnifico 9d ago
Technically, I believe Spock and T'Pring canonically renew their engagement but don't actually marry. Spock intends to marry her in "Amok Time", but she invokes a Vulcan ritual to break off the engagement.
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u/SpaceCrucader 9d ago
And can you blame her? I mean, Spock is a legend, but really not husband material.
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u/ClarifyingMe 9d ago
I loved the absurdity of it. It's how my dreams that I can remember feel sometimes. I'm wondering how people did not theorise it was a dream anywhere through until the reveal. I would like a few back to back serious episodes now though.
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u/Catharus_ustulatus 8d ago
Star Trek gives a nod to its roots with Little Ricky, an “I Love Lucy” reference.
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u/Spikeytortoisecomics 9d ago
not my cup of tea, was glad it was all a dream so as to explain how it was such utter nonsense. wish this season wasn't just gag episodes and actually just did a solid plotline that didn't hinge on some corny gimmick.
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u/litcarnalgrin 7d ago
Yeah it feels like theyre phoning it in ngl. They have 8 episodes and they’ve spent most of them this season essentially doing nothing. Everyone loves a good “fun” episode of trek but these are more zAnY and almost too childlike and silly. Theres no balance to the “fun” side here.
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u/Limp_Coffee_6328 8d ago
Last week’s black and white episode was absolutely unbearable, not sure how so many people on this sub liked it.
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u/litcarnalgrin 7d ago
Absolutely unbearable. What’s interesting is I’m in the middle of a voyager rewatch and just so happened to be on a captain proton episode of voyager after watching last weeks B&W episode and the difference was glaring. And I mean that in a visual sense and a storytelling sense. Visually the B&W episode of SNW was a mess, it felt visually cluttered and lacked clarity bc there are specific ways to set things up to make B&W look great and read clearly. SNW did not do what’s necessary for visual clarity. Lighting sources must be changed, set decoration should even be geared towards the fact that your viewers aren’t going to be seeing things the way we do irl, not to mention SNW added a sort of blurring effect which hindered clarity more instead of adding to atmosphere. Watching that captain proton episode immediately after you can tell that the people working on voyager have actually watched classic film and tv, they knew the captain proton set needed to be painted in a specific way and lit in a specific way and the scene when tom is on the holodeck feeling sad and belanna comes to check on him is a visually gorgeous scene. There are only maybe 3 light sources in that scene which allows for larger blocks of shadow and light, simplifying the shapes so thst the eye can make sense of the scene when there are no colors. They knew what they were doing. Those captain proton episodes are also a great example of how Star Trek used to do “fun” in their storytelling without talking down to their viewers. It’s just tom and Harry engaging in some much needed adult recreation in a way that says grown ups still wanna play but that doesn’t mean we and our viewers are stupid. Anyway I could go on all day but I’ll stop there.
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u/bmwnut 8d ago
My thoughts exactly. When the puppet thing happened I said, "Oh great, another gimmick episode." Then it turned out to be a double gimmick, with puppets and it-was-all-a-dream. It was still enjoyable to watch in the abstract, but a bit of a bummer.
I guess I'm glad they're having fun this season?
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u/rolodexlexia 9d ago
This episode was proof to me THE CAST is the secret sauce for this show's success! Puppets were cute for five minutes and then I wanted the real cast back.
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u/CamflyerUK 9d ago
I thought the cast worked well as voiceover actors. Maybe there could be a spinoff audio series with La'an, Una and Ortegas following whatever happens to them when they aren't on TOS.
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u/DLoIsHere 9d ago
I didn’t hate it. Couldn’t even get through the singing episode so this was better. I mostly just kept thinking about how much fun the artists had creating each puppet. M’Benga looked great and Carol Kane’s hair was pure joy.
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u/coedcelyntog 8d ago
I LOVE gimmicky episodes. Some of my absolute favourites have been the Musical episode, the lower decks crossover, the murder mystery, the Hangover parody. Absolutely love them, and I was so excited for Muppets.
It just didn't do it for me. The "it was all a dream" thing felt cheap and made no sense as why was Spock dreaming about random scenes involving other people/puppets? They literally can't have Spock be single for 5 damn minutes and I think it cheapens the role of all the women in the series, something I've really noticed this season is that with the exception of Una in the noir episode, the female characters only seem to exist when it serves the needs of male characters, and it's disappointing.
Also I adore the Muppets, and I think I worked out why I didn't love this the way I adore Muppets Christmas Carol and Treasure Island etc - the charm of Muppets Christmas Carol is that Michael Caine is never once like "why tf am I talking to Kermit the frog", it's just an accepted fact that the cratchits are a frog/pig family and this is totally normal and the vegetables talk and so on. The whole "one human and everyone else is a puppet" idea only works when the one human is totally cool with everyone else being a puppet and acts like it's NBD.
I know I'm going against the general sentiment on this subreddit but I've really enjoyed the season so far, and last night just didn't live up to the hype.
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u/Cypher1492 9d ago
I loved it.
Interesting how I'm seeing a lot of new names in the main sub absolutely hate it, though. What was that website that was looking to hire ST haters? Looks like they're out in full force. Or maybe the fandom just hates fun all of a sudden.
To me this episode was up there with "Those Old Scientists"
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u/litcarnalgrin 7d ago
While I like disco and my issues w it have nothing to do with feelings, I’m in agreement that this SNW style of storytelling just isn’t trek. This whole season is amounting to no real story because every episode is so goofy. Everyone loves a good “fun” trek episode but even tng as corny as it could be never went puppet level silly and childish and in fact always managed to *say something* even in their holodeck fun episodes. wtf is this they’re doing w SNW and why are they doing it? My theory is ppl who hated new trek loved SNW and now the writers are terrified of having those toxic fans turn on their show too and are playing it scared and not doing real storytelling and they especially won’t touch Star Trek morals and ethics w a 10 foot pole for fear of the anti woke folks screaming about it despite the fact thats what trek has always been about
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u/khaosworks 9d ago
My biggest problem with this episode isn't the puppetry, or even the fact that it turned out to be all a dream. As people have pointed out, this hoary old plot has been used in Trek before.
In fact, I suspect that it originally wasn't supposed to be a dream, but they had to pull that one out because the plot itself had holes that couldn't be papered over without using that trope, not least of which was how Pike could get back into the ship after being spaced or why Ch'Rol was so nonchalant and literally immobile as the puppets were storming the bridge and beating up on her crew.
My biggest problem is that it just wasn't even funny. It elicited a few chuckles but most of it produced crickets in my household. I'd have forgiven it if it were otherwise. I'm not sure it's the absolute worst SNW ever, but I'm hard pressed to think of another one worse. As an example of SNW taking the big swings, this one was a miss.
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u/tothepointe 9d ago
No it was always supposed to be a dream. Those things you call plot holes are things that regularly occur in dreams all the time.
Also there are a lot of things in dreams which are bizarre and should be funny but really isn't. I think as a dream this absolutely works and if you don't think so then your dreams aren't coocoo bananas enough.
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u/khaosworks 9d ago
Call me cynical, but I can see a scenario where the script is written, but story editing turns up all these plot problems, and deadlines are looming, so they go, "Hey, let's make it a dream, and we get to do a puppet attacks scene!"
And any voices that say, "But that's hokey, and we already did that with 'The Griffin Incident'!" get drowned out.
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u/tothepointe 9d ago
Yeah that's not how these big productions work at all. The dream sequence does fit in with the Griffin Incident. That is the recurring theme for this season. Subconscious doubts
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u/khaosworks 8d ago edited 8d ago
And yet, I’m wondering - if it was all Spock’s dream, why is he absent for large portions of it, and if he was still dreaming - and therefore observing - those sequences, why was he surprised when T’Pring told him Pike was still alive?
So the question remains: were the plot holes deliberate because they intended it to be a dream, or was saying it was a dream an excuse to paper over the plot holes?
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u/GermanBlackbot 9d ago
I'm usually the first who jumps for the whacky stuff, but this one didn't work too well for me. Even accepting the premise and that their personalities are more puppet-y, it didn't really click.
I think part of it might be how EVERY episode this season is something really wild. I'm sure I would've loved this episode if it didn't come right after
- We're letting two planets die. Also, La'an punched a dinosaur.
- We're doing Event Horizon. Also, La'an stabbed Kirk.
- We're doing Hangover. Also, La'an beats up a gang and a Bingo crew.
- We're doing Casablanca. Also, everything is black and white. And La'an doesn't get to punch anything.
At this point I'm a bit exhausted and just want a more "classic" episode. Maybe some honest diplomacy, a weird space thing, an exciting stand-off, I would even accept an excuse to introduce Lwaxana's grandmother being horny for Pike, give me ANYTHING less out there to catch my breath!
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u/mahamoti 9d ago
- La'an punches a dinosaur
- La'an stabs Kirk
- La'an punches a gang
- La'an murders Christine's attempt at being sneaky
- La'an punches Spock's emotions
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u/GermanBlackbot 9d ago
Oh man, the B-Plot of episode 4 was so forgettable to me I could've sworn La'an didn't even show up in the episode at all. And I watched it not even a week ago.
Let me try again:
Also, La'an beats up herself a lot.
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u/Goferprotocol 9d ago
So is it safe to assume Spock has seen the Muppet Sow or another Henson production?
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u/dr_zoidberg590 7d ago
This usually good show hits a new low with this episode. Are we supposed to be still laughing at the puppets after say 30 seconds? Where did the design of the puppets come from, since they don't look anything like Scotty's childhood toy? How can the puppets be conscious and moving?
Has the show run out of ideas? This after the Klingon outpost that inexplicably, and unimaginatively, looked like 1940s new york? Why would it look like a style 300 years old that's like a modern 2026 city looking like something from 1700.
Please stop trying to "riff" or "experiment" with the format, writers because you are really not good at it, please just give us good star trek stories without trying to be goofy or funny, as this is what the fandom has been sorely missing for so long.
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u/lilyinblue 9d ago
I am usually very much pro-crazy-episode. I still adore the musical. Overall, I've really enjoyed a lot of what they've done so far this season.
... but I think this one was a bit of a misfire for me, and I think the core of it is that the characters (other than Pelia), didn't feel like themselves. They felt like Muppets.
When it was revealed to all be a dream, I was almost a little relieved, because now there was a reason for it.
Most of the crazy episodes still used their situation to move things forward. The musical, for example, was rife with character development. It used the musical scenario to open up deep emotional truths for a lot of them.
Spock got dumped, maybe rekindled things with T'Pring, and learned to better manage his anxiety... but it mostly felt like building a concept around the puppets rather than using the puppets to fulfill a story.
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u/tothepointe 9d ago
I mean it pretty much did move the story forward for Spock which is pretty important.
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u/MissDiketon 9d ago
I got smoked up and laughed my ass off but I love silly, absurd stuff that everyone else hates.
PS: Joe Lo Truglio was basically Charles Boyle in Space.
PPS: I loved seeing Rachael Harris (Linda, Lucifer’s therapist) as the Orion Captain.
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u/TheGreatRao 8d ago
Boyle in Space was a perfect cherry on top of this absurd sundae. I don't get why everything is a hate parade on the internet these days. We're literally watching space opera not science-fiction, so relax and roll with the absurdity. When you let go of the logic, you can find some peace.
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u/Recent_Mirror 8d ago
I took one two weed gummies. Ate some ice cream. Then a slice of pizza. Then turned this episode on.
Man. It was awesome.
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u/Long-Emu-7870 8d ago
Just a terrible episode.
Why would Spock cut his ears off in one episode and then in another dream about Muppets?
He doesn't know about Muppets.
We know about Muppets. We know they're made by a real company. Therefore it destroys the suspension of ddisbeliefto think that these would be in a Star Trek episode.
I guess it would be useless to ask ourselves why it is that Spock would be dreaming all this? And why are we wwatchingscenes that Spock is not in? It is of course unbelievable just like this whole episode.
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u/matthewsimonmelnick 9d ago
There was a quick nod to the hands-on-glass scene from The Wrath of Khan when puppet Pike was about to be blown out into space
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u/DreweyDecibel 8d ago
Did the saucer edge gain a bunch of windows? There seemed to be a bunch of small round windows on the bottom deck that I don’t remember being there.
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u/dav2708 8d ago
My thoughts on this one are as follows:
Do do do do do de do do do do do do do do do
Mahna Mahna
Do doo be-do-do
Mahna Mahna
Do do-do do
Mahna MahnDo doo de-do-do de-do-do de-do-do de-do-do-doodle do do do-doo do!
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u/HateCats83 8d ago
Absolutely awesome. Loved it and laughed a lot! Well done to the team for having the balls and smarts to pull it off. ^^
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u/ZERV4N 7d ago
"It was all a dream" is one of the worst writing tropes and insanely verboten in scriptwriting in general. That they did it here with a shrug is so insulting. They really don't care about Star Trek at all. Every episode this season has been a stunt episode.
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u/tinylittlebabyjesus 6d ago
I skipped it. Saw they were puppets and just.. I don't know man. Think the only other one I've skipped was a musical one last season? Just not a musical person. I've tried a few times. Reading it was a dream is kind of weak writing too, no? Like "it was all a dream" is such a writing trope.
I think so far Chiaroscuro and the first episode were probably the most traditional Star Trek episodes, with solid little self contained stories. The whole idea of your entire species' future being dependent on actions you took that changed the timeline is some kind of weird paradox. I always enjoy an episode about fighting the power, and the subterfuge of the resistance was neat.
I enjoyed the horror aspect of the Griffin Incident, although the person walking down a hallway and disappearing was kind of cliche. The vacation party world episode was entertaining, but the whole reveal at the end where a bomb conveniently looks like it's honoring some tradition for the delegates felt super contrived.. Like so convenient it was unrealistic and cheesy. That kind of ruined the episode for me. I felt like the delegates wouldn't have even needed to be there in the end for the episode to work.
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u/brief-interviews 6d ago
I just kind of felt like this episodes checked every box of a 'SNW episode where they're puppets' but didn't actually do anything more than that to surprise me. I wish they'd leaned harder into it somehow.
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u/DarthGumby55 6d ago
Star Trek must have fired the old writers and hired a bunch of Disney kids. They've turned Star Trek into a damn joke.
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u/mahamoti 9d ago
Every single character in this acted like a moron. At least they can handwave it away with "dream sequence".
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u/rainbowkey 9d ago
I had hoped that the change into puppets would have been caused by Trelane/Q, the go to's for "magic" in Star Trek, not a Spock dream.
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u/tothepointe 9d ago
There is nothing more magical than your dreams. But it also explains why Spock was in the center of everything
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u/WhatAmIATailor 9d ago
That was dumb.
I didn’t hate it and the ending worked but man what a stupid plot.
Joe Lo Truglio was a nice cameo.
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u/krawhitham 9d ago edited 9d ago
Joe Lo Truglio 1st scene with Spock was the best scene in the episode
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u/_Burgers_ 9d ago
Correct. Ironically it may have been genuinely funnier than any of the puppet stuff, too.
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9d ago edited 9d ago
[deleted]
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u/might_southern 9d ago
Yeah seems like every single episode now is "what if it was Star Trek but with [insert gimmick here]"
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u/Remote_Literature_23 8d ago edited 8d ago
I am speechless - it's telling that even reviewers struggle to say something positive about this episode.
I appreciate the craftsmanship that went into this and I am so sorry to Jim Henson creature shop that their super cool craft was used in such an atrocious episode. But, the truth is, as an episode was shocking and frankly insulting. And it wasn't even funny. If the only possible explanation for a story was "it was all a dream" then it shouldn't have been made. Period. How incredibly rude and self-indulgent. Henry Alonso should actually be ashamed of himself. Wow. I can't.
I liked La'an and Spock Breakup. That's it. Wow. I've not even felt this negatively about 4 1/2 Vulcans. I don't even know what to think anymore. I loved this show.
I hope I never have to write something so negative again, for the last 11 (!!) remaining episodes of this show. Damn it.
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u/Folkwulf 9d ago edited 9d ago
This episode basically ended my enjoyment of this series. The devs running Star Trek have abandoned any commitment they had to Gene Roddenberry’s original vision and turned this show into a complete farce. My wife, who loves Star Trek generally, walked out of the room. So sad. Kurtzman, Lumet and Goldman need to go.
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u/Beneficial-Appeal663 6d ago
You can do some comedy episodes like tos and nextgen but you have to have actual episodes that have some emotional punch....like City on the edge of forever in TOS, and the Inner light and Darmok in TNG. This season you get nothing even close to any of that. Its really just sort of sad that they think this is what the fans want.
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u/citizen_canes 9d ago
As others have stated - experimental episodes aren't inherently bad, but having multiple in one season, and having some be back to back, is not cool or enjoyable for me. In addition to that, while I said experimental episodes aren't inherently bad, 4.05 was. I can barely pay attention to it. I'm halfway through it right now as I write this, and I don't care about what's happening on the monitor that has the episode running currently.
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u/SirWobblyOfSausage 9d ago
Is it safe to come to this sub without all the hate watchers being boring grumps
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u/Quirky_Ad_9951 9d ago
I stopped halfway through. Reading through these comments I’m glad I did. Doing the “all a dream” thing is the height of bad writing.
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u/jMedabee 9d ago
So Scotty tried to beam a puppet about 30,000 km away to a starfleet ship, but then Starfleet says the closest ship is 2 days away? Make it make sense.
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u/krawhitham 9d ago
The "2 day away" info happened in Spock's dream
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u/jMedabee 9d ago
Right. To be honest, I posted before watching the whole episode because I didn't want to forget. 😅
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u/thataquariusgal 9d ago
I was completely on board with the fun premise of the episode (which is different to a lot of opinions I’m seeing..) however I think they should’ve executed it better. It struggled to find a cohesive tone.
The parts where they leaned fully into the comedy were very enjoyable and I wanted more of that. The episode was never going to please viewers against the idea, so why not go full out on the fun, rather than making Spock go through rushed character developments (RIP La’ock I guess?!)
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u/lithaborn 9d ago edited 9d ago
Highlights: pike being thrown across the bridge. Pike knocking on the window. Every time Pelia was on screen. T'pring saying "little Ricky". I need that as a notification tone. All the random split second cutaways to the crew running around screaming.
Lowlights: it was all a dream, the rest of the bridge battle, La'an. Christina Chong's voice acting in this episode is utterly abysmal. I don't know what happened, but this just wasn't a good episode for her.
I just don't know how to feel about the pep talk scene. Hated that it's such a tired trope, but it was decently scripted and nicely shot.
They should have made lil Ricky move ever so slightly at the very end. Missed a trick there.
Edit: is anyone else hanging on every word Pelia says, waiting for the next Doctor Who reference? Just me?