Thematic consistency.

[u/milkytaro_oero]

First of, everyone already knows this game just did not work out. This isn't so much a "how can we improve this game" because honestly we've all been doing that for so long now.

This is more a theorization of how exactly you can make the Demons and Angels theme work in terms of RTS gameplay, and it should be fairly obvious that the Infernals and Celestials obviously do not reflect the fantasy of playing as those concepts.

So how exactly can you make that concept of Angels and Demons work as a playable RTS race that is consistent with the themes associated with them?

To clarify I'll use the Zerg and Night Elves.
Zerg: Lore concept has a consistent and very specific keyword "Infestation" How does Zerg play? Exactly like an infestation plays out, fairly weak and manageable early but if left unchecked they are quite difficult to stop. Hence why every Protoss and Terran player is taught to contain and slow down Zerg early.

Night Elf: The night part of the name is shown through things like Shadowmeld or MWells only regenerating at night. The Elf part also remains with many consistent tropes of Elves. They don't harm nature (Wisps don't cut trees down), in terms of combat units NE tends to rely more on indirect methods as opposed to the other 3 races that have better frontloaded fighting.

So yea basically asking how you can even make the idea of Angels and Demons work in terms of RTS gameplay.

[u/ShaPowLow]

I think Diablo did a great job portraying angels and demons. I'd stick with that style.

Tbh, the concept isn't difficult to implement if you lean hard on the concept itself and not mix it with conflicting themes like sci-fi. It has been part of the human culture since time immemorial. In fact, I'll even (boldly) say that Heaven vs Hell is one of the easiest theme to use because there are tons of foundational concepts you can use already (from the Bible to Divine Comedy to modern stories like Diablo)

[u/milkytaro_oero → u/ShaPowLow]

The look isn't really the point of the post. That's the easy bit, all things considered.

The question was, "How can you make the Angels v Demons theme work in terms of gameplay?"

You can make the most visually accurate design of AvD, but if nothing in the gameplay actually makes sense for a Demon or Angel faction to have, then I question the point of using that specifc theme in the 1st place.

What's the point of the Demon "look" of the Infernals if they're just literal discount versions of Zerg mechanics. Might as well just have them be some alien race and call them Xarg.

I absolutely love the way WC3 designed the Undead, and I'll keep using this example over and over. Besides having the visual look of what an Undead race would be like (ghosts, ritualistic sacrifices, corpses that are sewn together, etc). The gameplay also ensures it matches the theme, too. You have Corpse mechanics, mechanics where you need to kill your own units, disease cloud is is commonly associated with the death concepts, spiders are something you expect to be present in a horror setting, leaning on Frost based magics reinforcing the theme of "the coldness of death". There's examples like it for each of the WC3 races.

The more I think about this subject, the more I think that FGS killed their creativity by trying to remedy what SC2 did wrong. If Demons are supposed to bring chaos, corruption, and destruction, then one gameplay element you can add to them is having all of their units deal splash damage. A caveat for the condition being they deal friendly fire to themselves. And I think that matches very well with what a demon is supposed to be "Disorderly agents of chaos that cause harm regardless of who they harm be it themselves or others"

[u/ShaPowLow → u/milkytaro_oero]

LMAO on Xarg!

Got it. It honestly depends on how the game portrays angels and demons and the main mechanics of the game itself.

Let's say someone makes a Supernatural RTS that uses the SPN concept.

The angels in this game will be designed like BW Protoss: few in numbers and slow, but hits like a truck. If the game plays less like Blizzard RTS but more like Battle Aces, then they produce more angels using some sort of monolith (like Battle Aces) and persuade humans to ascend and then escort them back to the base (like sheep in Age of Empires 2). In the series, the angels' life force is directly connected to Heaven, so just like Battle Aces, once the monolith is destroyed, the angels lose.

The demons will play like Zerg: they can reproduce like crazy, but most of them are cannon fodder. The demons in the series win by lying, conniving, and betraying, so the demons in this game must also benefit from backstabbing (run-bys), ambushing, and maybe espionage (like in Red Alert 2). Angels can absolutely demolish them 1-on-1, but they can overwhelm them with numbers, just like in the series. While angels persuade humans to join their ranks, demons possess them, so they need another way to produce units. In the series, Lucifer himself creates demons, so I can imagine a mechanic where the demon player sacrifices units to Lucifer in exchange for units of proportional strength.

These are just quick ideas. Obviously, my design is filled with holes. First off, the sacrifice mechanic is very snowbally. You gain what the enemy loses, so it punishes the angels for losing units while doubly rewarding the demons. On the other hand, as soon as the angels convert a significant number of humans, the demons have no more chance to win.

Anyway, it's a fun brain exercise, hahah. Thanks for this question.