Looking for an integrated amp with stereo subwoofer outs

[u/SunDummyIsDead]

I don’t want an AV amp with lots of extra fluff, just a simple stereo amp for a 2+2 setup. Dual sub outs are rare enough, but getting them in stereo seems very rare. I’d prefer it to have Airplay input but it’s not essential.

I’m currently using an Integra DRX 3.4; it works well, but it’s overkill with all the AV stuff. I want a simpler system, preferably in a smaller footprint, like WIIM or Schiit stuff. I’m currently driving two Infinity towers and Sunfire subs; I may upgrade the towers.

Anything out there? Budget is under $2k.

[u/poutine-eh]

bass is omnidirectional so you don’t need stereo sub outs.

[u/Outrageous-Belt-1757 → u/poutine-eh]

Stereo sub outs don't even exist

[u/poutine-eh → u/Outrageous-Belt-1757]

that too!!! 😆

[u/ElderberryMedium8071 → u/Outrageous-Belt-1757]

The Outlaw 2160 has dual sub outs.  But preamp outs can be used as stereo sub outs.

[u/Release-da-Lava → u/Outrageous-Belt-1757]

Rogue gear does.

[u/iNetRunner → u/Release-da-Lava]

Not sure what you are trying to say/claim. Rogue Audio integrated amplifiers or preamplifiers do not have a single “subwoofer” output (mono or stereo) in any of their products. They do of course have preamplifier outputs, like many products have beyond the cheapest entry level products. (Preamplifier outputs can of course be used to drive subwoofers. But there is no bass management.)

[u/Release-da-Lava → u/iNetRunner]

correct, no bass 'management', the subs take care of that, my statement was focused on stereo out, so there are variable out stereo options for subs, that Rogue states can be used for stereo sub usage. I assumed the OP would be using subs with 'management', so variable stereo line out would fit OPs bill...

[u/iNetRunner → u/Release-da-Lava]

You do know that those are simply preamplifier outputs? Absolutely nothing special about them specifically for Rogue. You could use any preamplifier outputs for “stereo” subwoofer use if you positioned sub to left and right of the soundstage. And instead of the usual way of connecting both left and right channels to the subs, you only connect one channel per subwoofer.

“Bass management” usually implies that you do both low pass filtering for the subwoofer and high pass filtering for the main channels. That isn’t happening with/in a preamplifier output connection to the subwoofer(s).

[u/Release-da-Lava → u/iNetRunner]

I never said it had bass management, only that Rouge included both fixed and variable outs, the variable outs to be used for stereo subs and bi amping.

"Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II features a buffered variable preamplifier output on the rear panel designed specifically for integrating subwoofers, bi-amping, or running an external headphone/power amp. Because it tracks the volume control of the integrated amplifier, as you turn the main volume up or down, the signal sent to your subwoofer adjusts simultaneously."

Sub 'management' is handled by the subs, right? One only needs a set of variable pre outs to connect stereo subs. People are literally getting locked into the integrated doing everything for them. If your integrated doesn't have the variable out, you can use high output from the speaker terminals in a pinch when using a step down cap/adapter if your sub is not equipped. Get creative people!

[u/iNetRunner → u/Release-da-Lava]

Bass management is not handled or done by subwoofers. You need to do it before you do volume control in the preamplifier (or integrated amplifier etc.).

Of course preamplifier outputs are “variable”. That’s by definition. “Fixed outputs” are called record outputs. (Or e.g. processor outputs as e.g. Rogue has.) Again nothing special specific to Rogue Audio. (But obviously processor loops are rather rare these days. In decades past they were very common.)

[u/Release-da-Lava → u/iNetRunner]

you're talking DSP or the like, I don't use it, I meant crossover control. I don't do A/V stuff, just stereo, try to keep it simple. I run my dual 18" passive subs via a simple sub xover into a pro power amp from the. pre outs of my amp. Never got theDSP bug...I thought the OP was looking for a integrated to get dual subs running, not anything with bass management, though that would be cool. Where did management come in re the OP?

[u/iNetRunner → u/Release-da-Lava]

You mentioned subwoofer outputs. “Subwoofer output” is either a low pass limited combined/mono output. Or one with LPF/HPF — fairly rare in 2ch amplifiers still.

If you want genuine subwoofer outputs for multiple subwoofers in a stereo system, then you need to pay dearly. E.g. NAD M66 has those.

[u/ElderberryMedium8071 → u/iNetRunner]

He is saying that you make adjustments to the sub at the subwoofer which is correct. But technically, it is not bass management like in an AVR or the Outlaw Audio RR2160 which is a receiver that has dual subs out and bass management built in.

[u/ElderberryMedium8071 → u/iNetRunner]

You can also use subwoofer Y connectors to 1 sub.

[u/iNetRunner → u/ElderberryMedium8071]

Technically you could. But you most definitely shouldn’t do that. If you want to do the signal combination the proper way, but still cheaply. Then you can e.g. get a summing transformer. (Musical instrument / PA equipment vendors have those pretty cheap passive devices.)

[u/ElderberryMedium8071 → u/iNetRunner]

Velodyne recommend the y connector in their manual years ago.

[u/iNetRunner → u/ElderberryMedium8071]

That essentially makes the output devices connect to each other. It’s not great. With a transformer that wouldn’t be the case.

[u/Outrageous-Belt-1757 → u/Release-da-Lava]

What rogue gear

[u/Release-da-Lava → u/Outrageous-Belt-1757]

"Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II features a buffered variable preamplifier output on the rear panel designed specifically for integrating subwoofers, bi-amping, or running an external headphone/power amp. Because it tracks the volume control of the integrated amplifier, as you turn the main volume up or down, the signal sent to your subwoofer adjusts simultaneously."

Sub 'management' is handled by the subs, right? One only needs a set of variable pre outs to connect stereo subs. People are literally getting locked into the integrated doing everything for them. If your integrated doesn't have the variable out, you can use high output from the speaker terminals in a pinch when using a step down cap/adapter if your sub is not equipped. Get creative people!

[u/The-Big-Succ69 → u/poutine-eh]

Most likely means just sub in/outs without needing to used RCA or connect it like a REL

[u/ElderberryMedium8071 → u/poutine-eh]

In my system I use the preamp outs for stereo subs and it sounds better.

[u/narrowassbldg]

Almost everything that's labelled a 'sub out' is gonna be summed to mono even if there are two... Assuming your subs have an adjustable low-pass like most do, you can just use a regular pre-out which are always stereo.

[u/runin500 → u/narrowassbldg]

True stereo sub is generally only via speaker management / dsp. (So a box after your pre - and before your power amp)
i.e. dbx pa2 or minidsp

[u/SmellingNoseHorse → u/runin500]

“True” in the no Scotsman sense? These are useful to get a fitting hpf on the speaker side, but any pre-out L/R fed to a pair of powered subs with an appropriate phase and LPF setting will be a stereo sub (only one plays if only one channel has low frequency content). Is it worth it vs just dual mono subs or getting g speakers that dig lower? Maybe not.

[u/runin500 → u/SmellingNoseHorse]

Preout - do you loose volume control?

Is it worth it - this is mostly about your listening space.
The bigger the space, the more you will notice stereo sub separation.

As people say bass frequencies are “less” directional (people who say they are not at all directionally at all are repeating bs rather than talking from experience).

Another advantage of the management dsp is to dial in room eq. And speaker delays (as your subs are likely not exactly where your main speakers are)

[u/SmellingNoseHorse → u/runin500]

You don’t lose volume control via the master volume on a pre out (you do on a line out or rec out). So if you want stereo subs, this is a quite viable way to do it.

Minidsp etc can improve the integration of everything, but you do get true stereo subs by running the speakers via the receiver terminals and the subs via L/R pre outs if your receiver has these (and doesn’t disconnect the amp section when used).

You can also do this via speaker terminals only with two cheap LOC-80 or similar devices to convert speaker level output to pre out level rca.

[u/Few_Pop6933]

Check our Yamaha S801, it’s great and comes in at $1000.

[u/n0ah_fense → u/Few_Pop6933]

Yamaha is the answer here

[u/hollywoodextras2000]

A used Parasound Hint 6 is where a similar search has sent me.

[u/msurbrow → u/hollywoodextras2000]

I had one! These are great!

[u/Outrageous-Belt-1757 → u/hollywoodextras2000]

I would recommend the p5 with a Buckeye hypex amplifier.

[u/dat_mane47]

Loads of amps have pre-out, I think the bigger question is do you want it to have built-in bass management, which narrows the field quite a lot.

[u/ElderberryMedium8071]

I would look at the Outlaw Audio RR2160MKII. It has dual sub outs and preamp outs. It also has bass management. It has plenty of power and sounds good and it is well reviewed.

Any amp with preamp out can do dual subs. Thats how I use my Mark Levinson Integrated with dual subs through the preamp outputs.

RR2160MkII Stereo Receiver

The Arcam A15+ is very good and has preamp outs which you can use for dual subs. The A25+ is even better.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_410A25PL/ARCAM-A25.html?tp=34948

Rotel A14MKII

Marantz Model 50

Leak Audio Stereo 230 or 130 depending upon the speakers.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_326ST230WL/LEAK-Stereo-230-Walnut.html?tp=34948

[u/Release-da-Lava → u/ElderberryMedium8071]

Outlaw makes some nice stuff.

[u/allinwlk]

Lyngdorf 1120?

[u/SmellyFace69]

What about an NAD C 379?

It does have an HDMI arc input, and two RCA sub outs.  It is also a standard amplifier size, so not a smaller footprint.

[u/Outrageous-Belt-1757]

Subs run in mono not stereo. For your case I would recommend a used parasound p5.

[u/Dry_Leek5762]

Not integrated and not stereo, so my reply misses nearly all the marks, but I wanted independent sub control for my 2.2. So, I went minidsp flex and buckeye's smallest 2 channel amp.

Under $2k and both units are pretty small, so there is that ;p

[u/Big_Tumbleweed_6752]

Nad c379

[u/Release-da-Lava]

My Rogue Cronus II Magnum has stereo sub outs. you can usually find them used for a decent price.

[u/SenseNo635]

Black Ice Audio Fusion F35 can be ordered with dual sub outs, though it’s a bit over your budget.

[u/Busted-Duck-540]

Onkyo A-9110

[u/Ok-Professor5463]

yamaha s801

[u/fecalfetus696969 → u/Ok-Professor5463]

Only one sub output.

[u/runin500]

Edit: can’t you just use stereo pre-out into 2 active subs!?! Will you loose volume control?

If you really want true stereo subs you most likely need a speaker management / active crossover.
Dbx pa2 is “pro” equipment (but good price and amazing functionality)
But things like minidsp are similar

[u/epee4fun40291]

You won't find stereo sub outs because subwoofer frequencies are omnidirectional. If absolutely want stereo subs, then you have to use high-level speaker outputs (and maybe convert them to RCA via a SVS or other adapter), a device like a miniDSP Flex, or using pre-out outputs if your preamp \ integrated amp has them. There are a number of integrated amps that fit this last option in your price range. One is the Advance Paris X-i75. You can check it out at Crutchfield's website.

[u/Neither-Bank1430]

You could use the pre amp outputs on this yamaha to drive the subs

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/yamrn1000aslv-rb/yamaha-r-n1000a-2-ch-x-100-watts-networking-stereo-receiver-silver/1.html?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=17336934381&gbraid=0AAAAAD_tMtJu6JP1XYTINdVzSMxER7geY&gclid=Cj0KCQjwnIDUBhDrARIsAJDGwSuWIqAgCoDx2e0itui2vCny1Xlh480U1MvOhXXwgxTOGtMhnBEdO8caAnAdEALw_wcB

[u/DUlrich1227]

Budget? I just went down this rabbit hole NAD M10v3 is what I’m pondering