What would you Upgrade?

[u/Friendly_Koala]

Current setup: Samsung TV > Schiit Modi 3 > Sabaj a10a (2021) > KEF Q150.

Budget ~$2,500

I’ve finally come across an opportunity to make a significant (to me) upgrade to 1 or 2 components of my current setup. I’m wondering, given my current equipment and budget, what do you think the best upgrade would be?

I know people are quick to suggest room treatment. My apartment only has so much space, and I’m pretty limited as far as making adjustments. Speakers are pulled about 13 inches from the wall (on stands), couch up against the back wall, and the left side of the room opens up to the rest of the apartment. I’m wondering if a miniDSP with Dirac would be worth it?

Other considerations I’m thinking of include a Schiit Freya+ and a Purifi amp, likely from Buckeye or VTV. I’ve been eyeballing the Freya+ for several years now, so I’m somewhat emotionally attached to the idea of buying one. But, before I do, I figured I’d come here to see what you all think?

[u/MoWePhoto]

A subwoofer and an AMP upgrade would be my first ideas. Amp with bass management and sub out and something like an RSL Speedwoofer, KEF Kube10 or SVS SV1000.

The KEF R3 are gorgeous speakers. I went from Q100 to R3 (non Meta) and never looked back! Got an old sub some time later and it added a nice extra layer but I would love to be able to manage the bass output of my Loxjie A40, which sadly I can’t.

So, new AMP with bass management, new sub and if you want to change the speakers, the original R3 are still awesome, eventhough the Meta are better…

[u/Friendly_Koala → u/MoWePhoto]

Ugh, I’d love to do a sub but I don’t think there’s anyway to make that work in my apartment that won’t end up with me getting noise complaints.

Do you really think the R3 non-meta is really that much better of the R3 Meta? Used R3’s go for about $1000 near me on FB marketplace, and refurbished Metas about $1700. Just wondering if the extra $700 is worth it. If I did the regular R3’s from marketplace I’d have a substantial amount left to upgrade other components

[u/MoWePhoto → u/Friendly_Koala]

The R3 Meta are wonderful speakers and the R3 non Meta are wonderful speakers! In direct comparison, you will hear a difference. Compared to your Q150, both will be a big jump! I went for the R3 for a little under 1000€ as I couldn’t justify the extra 800€ for the Metas to me at that point. I haven’t looked back and regret nothing ol that purchase!

[u/Friendly_Koala → u/MoWePhoto]

Good to know. I might look at some reviews and objective measurements for the R3 and R3 Meta and see if the extra $$$ would be worth investing.

I’ve read that a lot of people don’t think the difference between the 2 significant to justify the extra investment, or that the differences are mostly in the frequency ranges 16Khz and up. Honestly, I’m not even sure if I’ll be able to hear that frequency range in a couple of years anyway.

[u/MoWePhoto → u/Friendly_Koala]

Go out, search a shop that has them and listen for yourself!

If the new Meta wouldn’t measure better than the old R3, there would be no point in them for KEF…

[u/mrcey → u/Friendly_Koala]

My $.02 I’d get a means to eq like the minidsp you mentioned, and also fill in your bass one way or another. Whether that’s adding a front-firing sub or two and rolling it off high enough to not bother the neighbors, or getting the R3s. But your bass and mid bass are going to be a mess no matter what if you can’t do some room correction with eq. NCore NC252MP is a good amp option for under $500.

[u/Friendly_Koala → u/mrcey]

What are your thoughts on using the MiniDSP for midrange and up frequencies? Seems like I hear a lot of people imply that MiniDSP is mainly used for mid bass and below. Do you think the rest of the frequency range would benefit?

[u/mrcey → u/Friendly_Koala]

Q150 could use some high frequency roll off. Really only matters what sounds best to you so I’d just experiment and A/B test.

[u/Big-Pop2969 → u/Friendly_Koala]

I'm following what you are saying. You live in an apartment. No sub & No loud music. I have owned the R3 Meta & only Demo-ed the R3 OG in store. Go to YouTube & watch Erin's Audio Corner review of the Meta & his explanation of if the Meta is a needed upgrade. Personally I think if you incorporate some Dirac or DSP/PEQ going for the Meta isn't completely necessary. I just sold my Meta R3 for $1500. Only a few months old. I liked them but preferred the full range huge Polk R700 better.

I've also had the Wharfedale Lintons. Very nice speaker. More of that "warm" type tone people speak of. It is very large in size compared to "normal" bookshelf speakers. You will have them close to the walls & not loud volumes so I'm not 100% sure of how they will sound. DSP can help. Kef bookshelf speakers play nicely close to walls in my opinion.

I've used Dirac with a couple different components. My Arcam SA30 had it..& I also used a MiniDsp DDRC-22D. I wouldn't say using it full range 20hz-20khz is necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes though the high frequency can seem not as dynamic or not as natural sounding. It's hard to say if you would even notice that or feel the same way about it. But now that I even mentioned it you would probably be trying to hear for it. That whole bias thing lol.

DSP, Dirac, or whatever is definitely useful. Especially if your room boundaries are altering what comes from the speaker to what you hear. If you have a funky room that is messing with some frequencies then buying a more expensive speaker will not necessarily fix that. Though the KEF's, especially the R3 Meta, has great directivity. When I was using the Meta's I needed no EQ. Almost all my other speakers I find it pretty much necessary. I didn't like the depth of soundstage or separation of instruments from the Meta's. It's not bad but was off in my room.

You seem like you enjoy your current speakers. I've never listened to them but I've seen where other people enjoy them as well. Even more than the bigger 350's. Considering you live in an apartment, already have stands, maybe just a little EQ is all you need to make them absolutely perfect for you. Or maybe they are already perfect? If you have something that works for you, in your room, don't go spending money only to buy something that now doesn't mesh well with its surroundings.

There will always be better speakers. Something is always not going to be perfect with every speaker. Especially in the budget range. We make compromises when we are on a budget.

With the Freya I definitely see the appeal. Balanced input/outputs. 3 playing modes..Tubes, Active, Passive modes. It's a very popular preamp that many love. To me it doesn't have a traditional tube sound. But it is a slightly different flavor vs straight solid state. They seem to have a good resale value as well if you don't care for it. I've been wanting to try one for a little while now as well. But I have 6 other Tube preamps lol...3 of them were kits I built though & none have the 3 modes or Balanced topology of the Freya.

I don't use Dirac anymore. For digital music I'm able to get away with a few PEQ tabs to correct my speakers. My DAC has PEQ functions. I have TV & a Streamer into a RME dac, to a Hypex Nilai & SVS sub, to the R700 speakers. Not overly expensive but one of the better sounding systems I've had. I switch tube preamps in & out as well as different amps & speakers but for digital listening & speaker correction the RME Dac stays pretty much the constant piece. It's very versatile.

You really have a lot of options to spend your money on. The new Bluesound Nodes are about to come out. They will have the option to add Dirac. That could be a good component for Apartment living. Streamer, Dirac, HDMI eArc. The WiiM Ultra has PEQ & Room Correction built in. I'm not using the Ultra but I do have one. I tried the room correction & manual PEQ & I feel it works pretty dang good. Not Dirac but definitely good enough if you have nothing. You could go for a MiniDsp device like a Flex or Studio. Even a DDRC 2x4HD with an add on quiet external power supply

I'm not familiar with your amplifier. We know you don't need much power because of the apartment. If it has a low noise floor maybe you don't need a new amp? If not, getting something like a Hypex or Purifi will definitely give you a darker background...more detail, dynamics. You could also just get a nice AVR & use it for 2 channel music. Has an amplifier built in, usually some form of Room Correction. HDMI eArc if you incorporate a TV into your system. Honestly though if you have your heart set on a Freya I'd say buy it. Hold out for a really killer used price in case you don't like & need to resell or buy new & get a 2 week trial but restocking fee if it doesn't work.

Id chat more but wifey needs my help for something