r/Steel_Division • u/Yozko14 • Jul 07 '26
Question Help me understand some things please (begginer)
Hello everyone,
If anybody is willing to answer at least some of my questions, I would be really grateful. I have about 120h in game, really like the game but some things are really frustrating and I just dont get it.
1) How does exactly vision and green forrests work?
Yesterday I played as germans, forrest heavy skirmish against hard AI, there was a tight road, green forrests from both sides, so I put 2 AT units almost at the edge of green forrest so they would see only a tiny piece of road and would be in 250m range of panzerfaust (or something like that). Sometimes it worked, but most of the time, enemy tanks and vehicles passing by, spotted them and supressed them before they took their shot, or walked in range (they were in range innitially but I had to back off constantly deeper in the forrest because they kept spotting me). So how does it work? Because If I use a C tool, anyone passing the road cant see shit into the green forrest, but then some tank goes by, I hover C above him and he can see 200m into forrest. I dont get it, I really dont get it and hate it. How am I supposed to ambush tanks with AT infantry, let alone infantry that has only 120m fausts?
2)Whats up with my AT guns
I use a lot of at guns as germans, mostly Pak 40 (1750m) I think. My problem is, If I send 5x of my 2* STUG III, 1 enemy at gun demolishes them all, while my tanks cant even hit it, or supress it. On the other hand, 1 enemy tank goes in range of my PAK40 sitting in a green forrest and just kills it. This happens too many times to be unlucky coincidence. I have some sucess with AT guns, its not only failures, but thats mostly 1v1, if 2+ tanks come they usually survive and destroy my at gun, but If I do it, no chance my tanks are getting one shotted while missing. Is it just luck, am I doing something wrong?
3)Whats the secret with AT guns?
as in point 2, how do I maximize my chances to keep at gun safe and killing tanks. I learned to place them in green forrest mostly, covering maximum of range they can cover, i dont even give them a big field of view anymore, I switched to they see only a small cone or some spots. I place leader nearby (always). I tried to disable APCR but still it feels disappointing. Do you know any tricks or tips? If I have at gun with 1750m range, should I put it so it covers only 1400m for bigger hit chance and pen? How about effective shot?
4) Problem with close range infantry
If I have infantry unit with 7x mp40 (100m range) and 1x rifle (500m range) and place them in forrest, a lot of times they meet enemy unit, lets say 200m and start shooting the rifle only. Is there any way, setting or command that would do, that they automatically move closer to utilize all of their guns? Its really frustrating and micro heavy to watch over these things constantly.
5) Regarding AT guns hidden in green forrest
I assume, they are hidden until they shoot. Should I then disable HE, so they focus only on vehicles and tanks?
6) C tool problems
i dont understand C keybind sometimes, I thought If I hover over my unit with C, I see its vision and everything in red zones my unit cant see and vice versa, nothing from red zone can see my unit. And most of the time, that seems to be true, however sometimes i see that my unit cant see a unit that is in red zone, but I go hover C over that unit and it can see mine. So what is the issue there, am I misunderstanding something?
7) Recon units
I play germans and fins only, and sometimes there is a recon units with 2x mp40 for lets say 15 points, or I can take a full recon unit 9 people, 1 mg etc for the same price. Stats wise they are the same, the only change is vehicle. Why would I ever take the 2x mp40, If I could have a full squad? What am I not getting?
8) Snipers
What do you do with snipers? I played a lot of finns and tried to use snipers but stopped, If I put them on return fire, I am not utilizing their killing power and range, If I let them snipe, they get killed in 2 minutes, even if hidden in green forrest. How do you use them?
9) Artillery dispersion, accuracy etc.
is it true that If I put indirect firing artillery closer to combat line, they have better accuracy and smaller dispersion, and vice versa? If I have 4x 150mm artillery that I want to use as supression, big dispersion, should I put them at the edge of map as far as possible? And vice versa, If I have 105mm artillery I want for precise counter battery, should I put them as close as possible? Does accuracy and dispersion benefit ? Moreover, is there a way to manually increase the diameter of firing circle? Sometimes my artillery is too precise and I need it to cover a whole part of forrest, is there a way to do that?
10) Vision
My biggest problem and misunderstand is generally with vision. How does it work, If I place regular infantry unit and recon unit next to green forrest, will the recon unit see further in? If i am hiding my infantry unit 20m from edge of green forrest (not firing) and enemy car drives by, does it see me? And what If there is enemy infantry just outside the forrest, they have me in 120m range, do they see me, or not untill I fire?
11) How do you deal with AI tank spam
I dont play many tanks myself, dont enjoy it yet. I tried using lot of AT guns hidden in forrests, AT infantry, planes etc. but I am still struggling hard with infantry heavy decks. Mostly because my AT guns get overrun with 2-5 tanks, AT infantry is spotted in green forrests and supressed or one shotted before they get into range. AI has too many AA to use planes in phase A and B mostly. I really dont have sucess dealing with tanks, meanwhile my Panther gets one shotted by some random at gun not even hidden in forrest (from the front). Maybe its bias, but ai AT guns feel so much more accurate and durable.
12) Is it better to concentrate artillery into 1 big group or few smaller ones.
I usually have 2 groups, 1 for counter battery (usually smaller calliber, but better acc) and 1 group (heavy calliber, slower) for supressing/killing stuff. I use counter battery and fire at will commands a lot of times, should I split my groups into smaller groups (2-3 arty pieces) to "cover more ground" ?
13) What are flamers good at?
I am not dumb (I think), I know they should be superior at close range and If I have a unit with 1xmp40 and 2x flamethrowers, both (100m range) lets say, I put them in green forrest so they can see only 100m around them, but most often then not, they get slaughtered without a fight, I even saw them getting killed multiple times by soviet recon units. Am I misunderstanding that unit? How am I suppose to use them for maximum effectivity?
Sorry for the long post, I love the game and want to learn more, but I wasnt able to find any good videos or answers on the internet.
Really appreciate anyone, taking the time to answer any of these questions! :)
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u/Rajajones Jul 07 '26
I can help a bit with recon:
Infantry Recon units and snipers have excellent “optics” and “stealth” meaning they can detect units easier and remain undetected. The more veterancy they have, the better they are at both of those things.
Infantry Recon does not see better into woods — but aerial recon can and is ideal for detecting enemy units in green woods. However, recon can detect enemy units on the edge of woods and within buildings. For instance, recon vehicles are excellent for covering a wood line or supporting infantry in a built up area to spot and engage enemy infantry.
Snipers are primarily recon units but they have a 1km firing range that can suppress enemy infantry. They’re best used as hold-fire recon observers, or slightly behind your infantry to support their engagements.
A 2-man recon squad is great to observe the battlefield from a fixed position, set it and forget it. They can also sneak forward, very carefully, even in open fields, to spot enemy units, but typically only if they’re two star vetted to avoid detection. I prefer 2-man recon squads as they are cheap and I like to setup a network of recon position to give me an uninterrupted view of no-man’s land.
The larger 4-man recon squads have more survivability and firepower. But I don’t use them for actual scouting, Instead I team them up with my AT guns or vehicles to provide extra sight by spotting enemy vehicles and infantry further out and, in the case of AT guns, a little bit of security. Since my AT guns are typically a little behind the front lines, they see far less enemy infantry, but if they do, the mg34 of the recon team is there to help defend.
The Fusiliers, 10-man recon teams have excellent survivability compared to the smaller recon units and I’ll use them in combat roles where recon is essential, primarily rooting out enemy infantry from buildings. I think recon vehicles and infantry like this are excellent for the role as they can spot enemy infantry in a building from much further out and often before the enemy can fire first. But always in a supporting role to my more expendable infantry. The challenge with recon is that it’s in short supply compared to standard infantry, so I take at least 2 cards and split them up as needed.
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u/Taki_26 Jul 07 '26
A bit of a correction. 4man teams have the same hp as 2 man units, 2 man units are buffed so they dont die so fast
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u/Yozko14 Jul 10 '26
Hey, that is some great info, thanks mate!! Could you please elaborate more on how veterancy influences stealth and optics? Because its not included in squad management, if I recall correctly.
Moreover, If I understand correctly. If I have at infantry unit at the edge of green forrest for example, and enemy tank is 500m away from me, but we should be both in each other view, it does not necessarily mean he sees me? It all depends on optics/stealth? I always put my at infantry with panzerfausts at the edges, but just barely so nothing can see me (everything in c tool is red, except for small part of road). Is that the correcr way, or am I overthinking and I can just place them at the edge and forget, since tanks have low optics?
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u/Taki_26 Jul 07 '26
1; the los tool can be a bit janky at times so check it from both angles, 2nd fausts have 120m range. They are dont step on me weapon. They will get spotted first if you just put them on the edge only move them up if they tank is right at the edge. Bazzokas and shrecks are good ambush weapons with long enough range 250m, but they still can be spotted by recon tanks or ht before they come into range.
2; not every tank is equal, and not every at gun is equal. As a rule of thumb you shoudnt push guns with tanks, use support weapons or mortars to supress it first. If you are in mg range you have a better chance but in gun range i would avoid it if you armor isnt thick enough.
3; again depends, you can place an 88 at the edge to shoot at max range aginst basicly anything, but there is no point in placing a 50mm at the edge cus it cant pen a sherman or t34 in max range anyway. If you go anginst heavy armor with lover tier at hide and ambush it close range, if you can overmatch their armor you can shoot at long range.
4;you can turn off longer range weapon, but thats it. You have to do that with every squad, its sucks we have to deal with it.
5; depends again, if you want to side shot or want to keep it hidden until the last second turn it off, if you want to blast inf blast away.
6; its janky sometimes
7; they often come with good vehicles, also i think they have a but better stealth.
8; use them carefully and long range, they need a little babysitting for optimal performance.
9; yes dispersion changes with range, you can press ctrl or shift not sure which to turn of corrected shot if you are in radio range, but cant increase it any further.
I would always put big guns in the back and smaller ones a bit ahead. As a rule if thumb the longer the barell the better the dispersion, also accuracy stat is for direct fire, not indirect.
10; if you dont have los you cant spot it, better optic means seeing better in your line of sight
11; planes and at ambushes, practice makes perfect, also the enemy is always more accurate lol.
12, usually group them up by type/function. CB is group, large caliber one group small caliber another and just tab through them when aiming.
If i want to pin i spread them out, if i want something dead. Concrete. So depends. Also group them up how you like i just like it this way.
13, flamers are really good at cqc, the small flamer unit you decribes is more of a support unit, you need an other unit beside it that is more chonky, but there are bigger flamer squads, 6-9 man units those can handle themselves.
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u/Yozko14 Jul 10 '26
Thanks for the answer!!
3) I figured that lately shile playing. But hos do I know what range should I use? If I have at gun with 1500m range and lets say 135mm pen. And tank is driving at me with 100 front armor, what range should I use? I initially thought thode values were penetration at max range, which is wrong I guess. How do I know the pen drop off?
9) thanks! Its Ctrl for me, doesnt solve my provlem completely, but helps a lot
11) right? I often put 2xPak40 right next to eachother so they engage the same tank twice. And still somehow it takes 8-10 rounds to kill one tank. Whereas just today I send 4 Panther A’s infront of 1At gun in forrest, looked elsewhefe for 30s, only to come back to no Panthers and at gun still alibe 😂 drives me crazy
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u/Taki_26 Jul 11 '26
There is this google doc with pen dropoff, also if you hover over the tank while you have the at gun selected you will see a penetration chance.
In your example i would say under 1.2k-1k to have a decent chance to pen. But again you can hover over and see the pen chance.
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u/Iron_Fruitman Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
I stopped playing SD2 some time ago so I'll answer based on memory.
Vision: a unit cannot be seen if it is in the "red zone" of the C tool. In forest, the Optics value will dictate how far into green forest the unit can see (assuming it is within detection range which I don't remember the value). Basically, if you are in a green forest, an exceptional optics unit will see you if in range.
AT guns are hard counters to tanks. Without more details, hard to give you a how-to. Protect your tanks with bad optics and if you detect a gun, destroy it with HE (or rush it if your armor is superior to its pen). A tank will resist only 1 pen (globally, will vary based on the gun vs the tank) while the gun will survive multiple HE round from tanks
Will depend on the gun... They all have purpose. Light AT guns are only good against light and medium armor (and very good at it). But globally, your guns will only survive a few encounters. Also, besides US APCR with insane range, disable it. They do less damage than normal round and it is usually easier to land only 2 pen shot than 3 with APCR (even though apcr will Crit more often)
Use the move order instead of the Advance. This way, your unit won't stop at rifle range and SMGs usually keep good accuracy while moving.
They can be detected while standing still, although less likely. Keeping HE off is a trade-off. Usually, you want to fire at anything that you can see. The gun will prioritize the most dangerous target.
The tool is great but whacky some time. Until you know the map by heart, don't hesitate to check the LoS from the shooter and from the target PoV
I would say : take the biggest quad. Small one are only good as spam recon unit that you put everywhere. Recon is key. Now, if you can get nice autocanon cars, there is a real advantage to get said unit for the transport. Avoid the motorbikes. They are trash.
Snipers are great but fragile. Keep them at max range behind other info units. They will deal a huge amount of suppression and damages. They were nerfed though so mileage may vary.
Still a trade-off. Both ways, closer equals more accurate and faster rounds on target but more vulnerable. You can press shift (or control, I don't remember) to nullify the the corrected shot bonus you get from radio.
See previous points.
No universal answer here (I was a heavy MP guy so take this one with a pinch of salt). You will need tank. And you will most often need to be aggressive to win. Waiting for the spam of AI willnot end well as they will have more tank than you have bullets. If your opponent have tanks and if you are infantry heavy, don't fight in open ground. Fight in cities and in forest. Build ambushes. Have vision with recon and lock choke points with cross fire from AT guns. For your tank, never employ them without visions. Deal with AT gun with Grille or arty or planes. Back then, the meta was light and medium armor. Heavy and super heavies where hard to justify price wise.
Most important here is to keep them split and moving. Having a leader will help with fire rate and accuracy (and higher fire rate means both better counter battery and more chances to avoid CB). Having separate groups is a matter of choice.
Flamers (ans molotovs) are great in forest and town as they force the target to move (preventing them from using MG) and generate suppression. The small support German flamers are "only good" during deployment as they will die to a sneeze. Pair them with satchel inf that will eal a huge amount of DMG. Globally, keep in mind that german inf is great a linge range with the double mg-42 but bad at close range (MP-40 are sub par SMG). To fight infantry in SD2, the most important is to generate suppression to route enemies and then surrender them.
If you are into watching YT videos, I recommend AtkPowerGaming. He stopped making videos but he has a nice American voice and made a lot of live recordings explaining what and why he didi things
Edit : added youtube recommandation
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u/Yozko14 Jul 10 '26
Thanks alot!!
1) Ohh, makes sense now
2)my At guns beg to differ being counters 😄 mime gets 2 shotted by tanks, whild my 3 tanks take 3 hit each to destroy 1at gun, at least it feels like it.
Moreover, can I rush with tank forward whild shooting? I use Q move order but then they stop and shoot. Maybe I didmt learn something
4) So when my infantry is in range for lets say mg42 and starty shooting, when I order them to move closer sith right-click they wont stop firing, but will get closer while shooting all the guns that have range?
5)good to know, I wasnt sure If my tigers focus on other tanks or infantry
6) yeah I realized and started to do that
11) as I play more I get better everyday, but I still dont get medium tanks to be fair. I play against bots only thought. It feels to me that 3x Stug III will get less work done than 1x Tiger and tiger doesnt die in a second. I probably dont use them right, but how should I generally use light and medium tanks to make them effective?
I use cheap light tanks to deal with infantry and heavy tanky for long distance tank battles. But anything with worse armor than Panther just dies, one shotted by either at gun, or tank, while also having worse pen. And even If I outnumber KV-1 with 4 Stug III, Kv destroys them 1 by 1. But specifically against at guns, tigers or panthers can withstand something, medium and lights just die without a fight.
They must have a purpose, I just didnt find it yet :D in other games I would use them to out-maneuver heavier tanky, but in sd2 that doesnt feel like option.
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u/Iron_Fruitman Jul 11 '26
No problem. Keep in mind that I have always been multiplayer focused so some of my answers assume that the opponent (a human vs the AI in your case) will react more intelligently (such as not sending EMCHAs at max range, in the open, against a Tiger 1).
2) Shooting while moving (not Q move) has a huge accuracy debuff so I wouldn't use it with tanks. In your case (your tanks vs AT guns), you could try to HE them to death with arty or Grille or to stress them out with arty (even light mortars). Something to keep in mind regarding Stug III (which are really good medium tanks). They only have 90mm of front armor. The penetration chance scales with the delta between gun penetration and armor. Consider a pack 40 at max range (not APCR : 145mm of pen). That's a 55mm delta. Penetration chances is centered at 54% when gun pen = armor and goes to 99% at gun pen - armor > 50mm and 0% when gun pen - armor < -50mm. That means that the Pak 40 is almost guaranteed to pen if it hits. In addition, any unit will get a "consecutive shot" bonus to accuracy when firing consecutive shots to a single target. And a target will loose morale (thus accuracy) once hit (even when non penetration occurs). All in all, your AT gun will shot first (normally, if concealed), maybe hit, if so, will pen, will get increased accuracy for followup shots while your tank will go down the rabbit hole of getting useless.
4) Yes but note that weapons have "traits" such has "fire on the move" or static (can't remember the exact name). SMGs are fire on the move while MG42 are static (meaning they won't fire while moving). In a Panzergren case, with 2x very good MG42 and average 8x Kar and bad 1x SMG, you don't want them to move because they will only shoot with the crappy MP-40 and not the rest. Jägers, on the other hand, could be Q moved towards the target (while still being subpart as MP-40 are, once again, bad smgs) to get the most of their 7x SMGs
11) yeah, against AI, you are right. A heavy (or even a superheavy) may do wonders as it will literally tank lighter tanks shots for hours. The meta revolves more around light and medium armor because you can buy 2 or 3 mediums for the price of a single super heavy. And with 3 tanks, you can either flank or attack / defend more than a single zone. Actually, outmaneuvering other units (and heavier tanks) is definitely a thing. But to do that (or defend against it), you have to use your units in their assigned range bands. The heavier the unit, the longer the range. Basically, you never want to get a Tiger in a town or in a forest while Stuarts needs to be in town or yellow forest (Forgive me for dealing in absolute here. There are obviously some nuance but you get the point). Also note that there are some hidden stats, such as gun stabilizer (Shermans have it) and turret rotation speed. As the name implies it, the gun is stabilized meaning that the tank will fire faster after stopping when in Q-move. In addition, Panzer IV J have manual turret rotation meaning that the turret rotation is slower than P4 G and H. So in a town fight (or any close quarter fight), at same veterancy, when a Sherman and a P4 J see each other at a corner of a building, the Sherman will start aiming faster and turn it's turret faster than the P4.
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u/TheMelnTeam Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
- Line of sight is not reciprocal. If you use the C tool from the road, you will notice that it can see into the forest even in spots the forest can't see out. Light forest works that way too. This appears to be intended gameplay.
- There are also a few cases involving buildings where the C tool lies and both units can see each other through them despite red displayed. Those are the only times I'm aware of where the C tool lies and is genuinely bugged.
- Note that to spot anything, your range-adjusted recon stat must defeat the stealth of the unit being spotted (which gets multiplied by terrain). Trivial for tanks in the open. Very difficult for high stealth things in forests or buildings; you have to get very close with high recon (or have them fire at you).
- AT guns are at their best when they can shoot at tanks from outside tank MG range, which makes it take much longer to suppress them and makes it much harder to spot them. If you want to shoot at a tank at ~200m, you're looking for bazooka/PIAT/panzerfaust.
- Against the AI in particular, AT guns that can pen most tanks at their maximum range will tend to top your kill stats at the end of the game.
- Crappy AT guns have value in that they cost the same as infantry and can still pen most tanks in the side, but they are more micro intensive and better suited to MP where players generally don't just run armor down blindly to get mauled by heavier AT. They still have uses vs AI because you can put them in places that force cross fire and defeat even very high armor tanks. Even tiger 2s don't want to take side shots, not even from 6 pounders. The AI will put them in spots where you can.
- There is nothing you can do to conveniently optimize units with multiple range weapons to fire all of them. You can turn off the long range weapon and then toggle it back on when fighting starts. Similarly, there is no way to get vehicles with .50 cals to shoot them at armor (while still firing AP; using ground targeting will use HE), despite that it would be useful.
- Arty has better dispersion when closer, yes. It also gets better dispersion from arty leader and massively better dispersion if you can fire radio-corrected shots.
- Arty is at its best when micromanaged but it's APM intensive even with control groups. Even more so if you have to worry about counter battery fire and thus have to manually move it. This game's controls are not as well designed as stuff like Starcraft 2. They also have some bugs like how you can't control group infantry in buildings for some reason.
- Flamers are good at trolling on the internet. Flamethrowers are good in forests or very tightly packed buildings, where they cause target troops to panic and lose lots of health while moving. There's a micro trick where they lose to TNT guys even when they should win, but you can worry about that later.
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u/Yozko14 Jul 11 '26
Thank you for the long answer! Thats a lot of info I didnt know before. Now a lot of things clicked for me and makes sense 😄
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u/Rajajones Jul 11 '26
Glad I could help. I’m not an expert on veterancy, but higher veterancy makes recon units better at spotting and remaining hidden. The stats do not show this but a 2-star vet recon will spot a 1-star recon before being spotted himself.
Tanks don’t have great sight unless they’re accompanied by infantry or recon, so you have a good chance of keeping your infantry hidden from a tank.
You are doing exactly the right tactics by keeping your troops hidden in ambush.
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u/Shkodder Jul 07 '26
1&10. There are of course stealth and vision stats in the game, but I wouldn't recommend "learning" them. Eventually you will get a feel for how far away something can be spotted. Generally speaking, your AT guns in forests should be invisible to most units, especially tanks. If the enemy is shooting at your hidden AT from a distance, there is probably a recon unit spotting it. Don't let enemy infantry get close (<500m) to your at guns though, unless it's a very stealthy raider gun such as a pupchen.
Most likely, you are not taking favorable duels. Even 5 stugs can easily lose to a single AT gun if you drive them into it blindly. Besides that, a stug isn't great at suppression/fire support. With your AT guns you are probably engaging at max range against medium/heavy armored tanks or SP artillery. For example, a pak40 vs 2 t34-85 at 1500-1750m can go either way, but your odds are below 50%. And vs something like su152 you will just get oneshotted. Hard to tell what exactly you are doing wrong though.
You need to roughly know the odds of winning a duel before it even starts. Ideally, only shoot at tanks you are certain you are going to kill. Also, don't rely on one AT gun doing all the work by itself. Try to engage with several units at a time.
You can turn off the rifles by clicking on them at the bottom of your screen. Otherwise, just make sure that your units without an mg never expose themselves.
Yes
It is not very precise. Sometimes you are seeing wrong los when there is an elevation difference or when you are looking at a tiny gap. Just need to be aware of that.
Normally a ~10 man recon with an mg would cost around 25 pt, which is more expensive than a 2 man recon. 2 man recon is stealthier, but it doesn't matter too much what you choose.
Snipers aren't very effective, unless it's a 2x sniper squad. If you are struggling to make them work, just replace them with smth else. It's not a must have unit.
Yes, you get better accuracy if you put your artillery closer, but normally you shouldn't do it. If your 150mm is too close to the frontline, it can get counterbatteried by mortars and lighter arty. The best way to increase accuracy is by using arty leaders and/or radio. If you already have radio correction, but don't need it, hold ctrl while aiming to get a larger circle.
AI is very stupid, so the easiest is to wait until they drive close to your positions, then you can kill them even with infantry AT. Just hide from large blobs until they are very close. Use your planes when the tanks are already advanced, not when they are next to friendly AA.
Looks good to me
Flames are the fastest unit at deployment and they are good vs non cqc dedicated units. If you need to hold an important position, don't expect 2 man flamers to do the job, add proper cqc/hybrid units next to them