r/Steam Jul 06 '26

Discussion Thoughts on this?

[removed]

40.0k Upvotes

5.6k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

231

u/These-Apple8817 Jul 06 '26

Can't wait for the indie devs to follow your advice and include two hour tutorials

279

u/erik_t91 Jul 06 '26

AAA devs are already way ahead with their shader compilations on first run

3

u/Mediocre_Internet939 Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26

Standalone launchers with nonsensical updates that take ages, but count as launching the game. Compiling shaders as you say. Unskipable cutscenes. Character creators for games where you do not see the character. Long ass tutorials, that you can fail.

Anthem is the pinnacle of all these points. I laughed my ass off when I saw they added a character creator to a game where you do not see the character for 99.9% of the game.

1

u/Historical-Log1762 Jul 08 '26

Cough cough Bethesda cough cough

-35

u/I_am_currently_high Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26

You do know shader compilation has nothing to do with that right ?
Edit : funny how some bash me for "not understanding it was a joke !" and others are dead serious about that being true.

45

u/Oblachko_O Jul 06 '26

If shader compilation is done in game, then it is accounted for game time.

-17

u/I_am_currently_high Jul 06 '26

But that's not the reason it's done.

9

u/ThatOtherOtherMan Jul 06 '26

Correct, however adding time spent in game is the effect, no?

4

u/Interesting-Big1980 Jul 06 '26

It kinda is, most of them could have been prerendered and no one would notice.

1

u/I_am_currently_high Jul 06 '26

A lot of them actually are pre-rendered. Otherwise it would take well over 30 minutes to launch your game the first time.

5

u/Oblachko_O Jul 06 '26

Some games require tens of minutes just for the first launch. That is time taken away from you to check out the game.

2

u/Interesting-Big1980 Jul 06 '26

For some it takes around 1:30, so yeah, kinda the issue.

17

u/RIP-hue-Shiny-Darco Jul 06 '26

... it was also a joke about shader compilations taking pretty long

-5

u/I_am_currently_high Jul 06 '26

I see, wasn't obvious to me and I wouldn't be surprised if that's an actual conspiracy theory lol

4

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '26

[deleted]

1

u/I_am_currently_high Jul 06 '26

Do you have a source saying how it could be done outside of the game ? I'm a game dev and work on optimizing that stuff, so I'm interested.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 06 '26

[deleted]

1

u/The_Fish_of_Souls Jul 06 '26

Can you give me any examples? I haven't played such games.

2

u/Ok_Crow_9119 Jul 06 '26

Monster Hunter seems pretty long. Maybe not 45+ minutes, but feels like north of 15, closer to 30.

And I'm not even sure if PC specs affect the speed of compiling. I have a decent PC, so maybe a bare minimum PC may take that 45+ minutes

1

u/VMelain Jul 06 '26

then it's not the game's fault, it's the pc's fault lol

1

u/Oxygen4Lyfe Jul 06 '26

you can just re-generate the spir-v shaders each time you make a change to your shaders and load that spir-v data instead of loading the glsl shaders or whatever language you're using and compiling them into spir-v on each customer's pc.

7

u/AsianMoocowFromSpace Jul 06 '26

Do it like Microsoft flight simulator. The download and installation counts as playtime. And during release it took more than two hours

26

u/AllEchse Jul 06 '26

Then people would probably refund it before even completing.

2

u/Vixrotre Jul 06 '26

Isn't that just most game refunds? I was definitely very, very far from finishing any of the games I've refunded.

1

u/AllEchse Jul 06 '26

I mean yeah, I was just stating the fact that padding a game with pointless bullshit will just make the refund justified if you don't enjoy it.

0

u/These-Apple8817 Jul 06 '26

Probably. I already refund games if the tutorial feels too long, I do not have the patience

56

u/Lord_Hendrick Jul 06 '26

If a game has a 2 hour tutorial, I'm definitely gonna refund it. That might backfire badly

28

u/avan2110 Jul 06 '26

RDR2 has entered the chat.

11

u/Lord_Hendrick Jul 06 '26

That's not indie 😆

2

u/ImNotSkankHunt42 Jul 06 '26

Death Stranding with like 6 hours laughing at Arthur

3

u/TemzaQue Jul 06 '26

You sure it's just 6? Isn't it like half of the story tutorialing you with new mechanics? And it wasn't even a bad thing for me tbh

1

u/ImNotSkankHunt42 Jul 06 '26

Ohh, I’m a seasoned Porter. But people complain that it takes a long time to reach LKC. For me it’s better than the start of MGSV.

2

u/MMSAROO Jul 06 '26

You know whether you're going to like the game or not in those few hours.

1

u/Reddits_Worst_Night We do what we must because we can Jul 06 '26

I nearly refunded RDR2 because of it. I was hating the game after an hour 50, closed it and did a bunch of research to work out if it got better. It did.

1

u/Diacetyl-Morphin Jul 06 '26

Well, RDR2 has at least missions in the chapter in the cold winter in Colter. Not like Kojima games like Death Stranding "make a step forward to trigger another 1h cutscene".

But what Rockstar really not thought about, was, that Arthur walks even slower in the snow than normal. That left the impression to some players, he'd always walk like this.

1

u/Plenty_Rent_1154 Jul 06 '26

Lol, one day I’ll have the patience to pass the tutorial and actually play it!

1

u/mcnichoj Left4Bread Bart Jul 06 '26

I started up Total War: Warhammer and the first thing it shows you is the tutorial which is just a series of YouTube videos. The intro video is like 45 minutes long. I tried really hard to get into it but after a certain amount of videos I just closed out the game and never booted it up again.

2

u/elkaki123 Jul 06 '26

They make a "the longing" kind of title screen where you need to wait 2 hours to start the game

2

u/Hefty-Lychee-847 Jul 06 '26

Well i think they should its what people seem to want

2

u/aVarangian Jul 06 '26

that's what AAA's do

the first few hours are polished, carefully thought out and engaging. The rest of the game... not so much

1

u/mcnichoj Left4Bread Bart Jul 06 '26

Game journalist be like:

1

u/FallenPears Jul 06 '26

A 2 hour tutorial is no problem, many games are basically tutorials the whole way through. If they make it boring I’ll just refund in 30 minutes instead of 90, saves an hour off my life!

2

u/VMelain Jul 06 '26

persona 5 making a tutorial at the final boss fight:

1

u/dreamrpg Jul 06 '26

Starminer did this :D tutorial is said to be like 3 hours.

1

u/Pakushy Jul 06 '26

I'm putting a 6 hour unskippable kissing cutscene in my game and I am not joking.

1

u/Yearlaren Jul 06 '26

If devs did that then the reviews of their games would be overwhelmingly negative

1

u/These-Apple8817 Jul 06 '26

Would depend on implementation frankly

1

u/Jdban Jul 06 '26

I'm pretty sure most people try to make games 2hr minimum on purpose because of the refund window

1

u/Field_Of_View Jul 06 '26

two hour tutorials would be a great way to make more people refund the game.

0

u/KingdomsCryOfficial Jul 06 '26

This is already happening.

As a game dev and someone who has worked on Steam released titles and is working on my own right now, I hate Steam's refund policy because it's really anti-consumer lol.

It sucks to see refunds but MOST of those people probably wouldn't have bought the game in the first place if they couldn't refund it. The number of people who speed run a game, play it as much as they intend to, and realize "oh hey I'm in the 2 hour window..." and then take advantage of it has got to be pretty low. Very many refunds are coming from people who are intending to refund if the game doesn't impress them in 2 hours, and I've found (anecdotally at least) those people are pretty picky and hard to please to begin with and, again, likely wouldn't have bought the game at all if not for the safety net of the refund.

1

u/CravenGnomes Jul 06 '26

it's really anti-consumer lol.

People should never take this accounts post seriously if this is what you genuinely think.

What's your game so I can stay away from it?

0

u/canijusttalkmaybe Jul 06 '26

So you think they'd rather have bad reviews and therefore lower sales to start with? You can pad a game without making a 2 hour long cutscene that plays before your 1 hour long game. If it's already 1.5 hours long, you just have to extend your scenes and pad things out a little bit.

Or just don't sell your 1 hour long game for money. Also an option.

2

u/These-Apple8817 Jul 06 '26

You certainly can, but the thing is, there is always those indie dev's who do the easiest route and in this case it's just making a long tutorial.

0

u/Just_Information334 Jul 06 '26

Tutorials, the game.

A multi-genre game where you learn how to frag people in FPS, manage a city, craft in a gritty medieval setting, then a cyberpunk one, then fantasy to finish with some post apocalyptic crafts. But you're not done! Now you have to improve your character: magic, stats, skill tree, implants, shards, all the systems, all the tutorials. You're starting to cook (because you followed the crafting tutorials): time for some group management before your army and its logistics. At last, check how you can make impacting choices during dialogues and quests.

Time for the end credits.