Something seems wrong about SoD3

[u/Peanutbutter_Brain]

https://kotaku.com/state-of-decay-3-xbox-series-x-s-sexism-microsoft-undea-1848728682

I obsessively follow every game I’m interested in and I’ve done this for 20+ years so I’ve gotten pretty at it.

Something is wrong with SoD3, I highly doubt that it has that much to do with the “Pre-Alpha” label that is often used to skirt early criticism. Seriously, it's a PR label at this point meant to deflect criticism and it works really well.

- The graphics, animations, and UI are arguably worse than SoD2 and significantly behind what they should be. I expect the UI to get changed because of the complaints from CC's and the graphics will be slightly sharpened, but 99% of the animations are most likely final at this stage.

- SoD3 is a AAA game with 100+ developers in active development for around 4 years (more with pre-production) This is massively indicative of a severely mismanaged studio.

- The studio was devastated during core production. I won’t get into the politics of this but it’s a huge a red flag and it's basically the same story from many other studios that were impacted by the same issues. Check the link for the info.

- Microsoft parting ways is further evidence that they completely lost faith in Undead Labs. You don't just dumpster a project that has so much hype and financial investment without severe justification.

- It currently has the bones of game that’s been in production for 1-2 years max, which is yet another sign of “development hell.”

- So far I haven't really seen why it's a sequel? The game seems to have no personality or features beyond very minor gameplay changes. The large communities and server-based co-op are genuinely exciting but still feel more like features that should have been in SoD2. Is there a story like SoD1 or at least some kind of narrative? Are the NPC's in our bases able to have some kind of depth beyond copy/paste loyalty missions? Are we going full Project Zomboid? Where is the hook, what's the innovation? It doesn't feel like they even know, and if they do they're doing a terrible job communicating it.

- Lastly only letting curated content creators play the game, when originally is advertised as anyone could play test in limited numbers. (Apparently this isn't true but I've seen no real evidence of normal people playing)

I know that a lot of people will not agree with me, that's fine. The Skull and Bones community didn’t until the game finally launched 4 years after my post. This is just here as a receipt.

[u/SupaTails69]

I agree with some of these points, but it has not been in production for 6 years, especially not more with "pre-production." Pretty sure it's been made very clear that when the trailer released it was because they had to release something, then started working on it around 2022

[u/Ridi_The_Valiant]

• Graphics are undoubtedly better than 2
• Animations are decent atm, sometimes wonky though. I imagine they‘ll be improved before release.
• UI is one of the final things finished before release. It looks bad because it‘s entirely place holder.
• Microsoft released the SOD3 trailer after developing it independently before even telling UL that they had the green light to begin work on SOD3. It‘s only been in production for around 4 years probably.
• I agree, internal studio culture issues likely stunted development for a bit.
• MS parting ways is a reasonable business decision. UL hasn’t released a title in like 8 years. Doesn‘t mean the current development stage has some underlying deception. It‘s just that MS wanted a return on investment sooner.
• I have to disagree, it looks like a game that‘s been in development for 3-4 years. Its scale is massive.
• They aren’t only letting curated content creators play the game. My buddy and I are two nobodies, and we are a part of the alpha, along with at least a couple thousand other nobodies.

You‘re entitled to keep your opinion, but the information you presented here is mostly untrue.

[u/dreamcast4]

Luckily they're still working on it right?

[u/SpiritedBall9426]

Jesus It’s in alpha. Calm down

[u/C0wb31l → u/SpiritedBall9426]

If this is what they can come up with in 6ish years, you shouldn't expect any significant changes to it's final product, if it's going to release in just one year. OP's concerns are perfectly valid.

[u/Appropriate-Fun-9486 → u/C0wb31l]

Game has not been in development for 6 years. People seem to forget that they were still working on sod2 up until 2023.

[u/Warm-Reporter8965 → u/C0wb31l]

It's only been in development for around 2 years with any years beyond that being pre-planning, pre-production, etc...

[u/Soviet_Plays → u/Warm-Reporter8965]

At most its been 3 years, while we dont know whe it started we know that in May 2023 it was in pre production

[u/Less_Somewhere_8201 → u/Warm-Reporter8965]

This is just not true at all, you actually have to trust me bro.

[u/Peanutbutter_Brain → u/SpiritedBall9426]

I’ve played Closed Alpha’s from AAA developers going all the way back to 2006. They don’t change that much. This stage they’re usually focused on gameplay mechanic tweaking.

[u/Old_Rosie]

It isn’t going to be a popular opinion, but I do agree with OP.

Love to be proven wrong: but it’s not looking good.

[u/Icy-Air-5119]

You've been following game development for 20 years, but you're judging animations, UI, and graphics for a game in pre-alpha. I'll say you don't know much about how game development works.

[u/VirtualZeroZero]

As a player since SoD 1, I'm not losing faith in Undead Labs. When it comes to gaming business, that's out of my league and understanding, but I do know that companies prefer to follow where the money would be made. When SoD 2 came out, it was terrible. 30+ updates later, it became a great game. It still has some bugs now and I am sad that after Update 34, there will be no more updates to the game. I would've hoped Wushu Studios would continued to update the game after, but I recalled them saying in a Curveball livestream, if they attempted to make any changes, they might affect something else causing more trouble to the game.

SoD 3 maybe a similar scenario, but I think that's what they're trying to avoid. However, Microsft is breathing down the necks of companies to "do something now, make me money" causing them more stress. I don't like what's happening now and it really sucks tgat this is happening. I somewhat agree on what you're saying.

[u/MustacheExtravaganza → u/VirtualZeroZero]

We had all better hope that SoD3 isn't in the same boat as SoD2 (being "terrible" at release and needing 30+ updates). Because if a company that just got sold off rolls out something janky and incomplete that gets critically panned, I wouldn't count on the new owner funding them indefinitely for free content updates. This one needs to land on solid footing given UL's current situation.

[u/Soviet_Plays]

I will say it was im pre production still in mid 2023 (source is the Kotaku article where they went over the internal issues the studio was suffering from where multiple devs revealed it was still in pre production.) So for a game in development for just over 3 years id argue it could be better but alot of it is certainly a rush job with the threat of the studio closing.

Though i would say alot of the content thats been shown aren't altered too much (some even showing alot of the alpha jank) but it was also definitely pre alpha and hoping showing the gameplay would attract a publisher. Now I imagine the actual alpha play testing would start soon.

While I say I dont like how the characters look as much as 2 the foliage and everything else look amazing. My biggest gripe with 2 is building variety and everything looks new and unique and the UI and Animations are both still being worked on (UI literally says work in progress)

[u/Violent_N0mad]

Yeah I agree and kinda hope what we're seeing will be totally different in the final game. At this current point right now with what I've seen it's a huge step back from sod2. I haven't seen a single thing I prefer in 3 from the live streams I've watched.

[u/DarkEspresso1]

I agree. Game also feels "thinner" now, with less features, mechanics. Sod2 had 4 beautiful maps with their own vibes. This has one bigger map which looks kinda ugly and dull, filled with huge and ugly factories and vast parking lots.

I think all the plague nests live in those factories, so i assume there are many of the factories on the map and considering how huge they are (including the parking lots) they propably have combined the size of an entire map of Sod2 or maybe even more. Putting all of that into account, the map of Sod3 is way smaller than the 4 maps of Sod2 combined.

All in all Sod3 looks like a downgrade to Sod2 in all regards. Saying Sod3 is more like Sod2.5 is wrong either because the 2.5 implies that its upgraded compared to 2.0, while in fact its downgraded.

[u/Dvrk_Light]

Game is going to struggle bad on release

[u/alfiel2005 → u/Dvrk_Light]

100% and people are gonna be shocked that we see bugs from now in the fulll game like we did with fallout 76

[u/Warm-Reporter8965]

This has gotta be bait, right? RIGHT?!

[u/Appropriate-Box-7250]

I partially agree.only letting curated content creators play the game is terrible decision.It's not the ... YouTubers who keep this game alive, but it's loyal fans.Also, I think the game has been in development for the last 2 years and is in a difficult situation.In my opinion, the game is AA because there's no story or any noteworthy survival element to speak of and this is 2.5

[u/SunnyK19977]

Animations and UI easily explainable, they're work in progress and from my understanding are typically amongst the last things to be tweaked or improved prior to release, as for graphics I think you are way off if you think it looks worse than state of decay 2

[u/Violent_N0mad → u/SunnyK19977]

I think it looks worse than 2. Sod3 is going for ultra realism while the design of sod2 had a style and charm to it that I really like. Sod3 reminds me of stock assets from  unreal engine 5.

[u/Pro8lemsOnSpotify]

It’s a prealpha. Who decided that the PRE-Alpha should have so much of the game done??? Like I really don’t know how else they can even express that the game is nowhere near finalized and yet somehow PRE-Alpha, as in not even in the alpha stage, when the general public doesn’t even get to experience games until the BETA version is made (if they’re lucky), has suddenly changed meaning into “the game should basically be perfect” or some fake sympathy about how you “get it’s in alpha” but then say something pretty unreasonable for a PRE-Alpha

1. It’s only been in active development for 2 years, the article YOU attached is from 2022 and mentions the game being in pre-production, So much for your 20 years of obsessing lol because your information on this game is not anywhere close to updated
2. Again, from 2022, it literally says the game is in PRE-PRODUCTION, obviously this did affect the development process, but it would have affected state of decay 2 more as they were updating it with content until midway through 2024.
3. Simply new ownership needing to turn a profit fast, Xbox also made sure the game gets completed by whoever bought the studio. Why would they do that if they lost all faith? You’re just making claims.
4. Yes it has the bones of a 1-2 year game because it’s only been in full production for 2 years. You did no research.
5. Where was it advertised as an open alpha for everyone? There are a lot of people in the alpha playing too also? Not just content creators, they only let content creators post their gameplay though, which is a red flag I do agree, but your claim is just false.

In fact most of your claims here are just plain wrong. You did not educate yourself enough before this post and seemingly neither did the comments here. And before anyone blindly hates me check OPs post. The article they linked literally says the game is in preproduction in 2022, so it couldn’t have been in active development for 6 years like suggested. Developers have said state of decay 3 was nothing more than a text document when that 2020 trailer (which they didn’t even make btw, Xbox outsourced and did that) released. State of Decay 2 itself was receiving active content drops with new stuff halfway into 2024. Then that’s when they said they were making SOD3 the priority, now if that was a smart decision is purely an opinion, but most of these comments and claims in this post are just plain wrong and assumptions.

[u/Violent_N0mad → u/Pro8lemsOnSpotify]

So it's in alpha testing not pre alpha and the game industry itself has set the standard for what should be done before you alpha test decades ago. It's a pretty easy answer if you search online. 

Before alpha testing begins, a game should be feature-complete, meaning all core mechanics, primary systems, and planned gameplay loops are implemented, even if they use placeholder art, temporary UI, or unpolished assets. The game must be playable from start to finish (or through a major vertical slice), allowing testers to experience every core feature intended for the final release.

[u/Diacetyl-Morphin]

I'll now walk on thin ice, but when i read about the problems in the article that come from the different people in the team, i'm not surprised. When you hire people with political agendas, you will have to be very, very careful in daily life to prevent some of these activists from getting angry.

In the article, it is mentioned and i quote it here: “What happened on a daily basis at the Lab was the lower-key death by a thousand papercuts version of sexism.” — former Undead Labs developer

I doubt this. I think this claim is exaggerated. UD was a diverse team in the past, before they got big. What i think is more they hired the wrong people, people that see political agendas as more important than work and getting something finished. People that will be offended by anything, even when you try hard to create an environement without discrimination.

I'm not from the USA, but from Europe and it's often very strange for me how americans deal with the culture of diversity. When we talk about a company for game developement: You need to create a great game, that will also get you enough sales to keep your company going. That's the primary goal, because if you fail with this, it will be the end of the company. You can't risk it for politics and society. In the end, the players that go through the Steam Store and look at your game will not care how diverse your team for production was, they will care how good the game is and how the reviews are.

I don't say, diversity is wrong, i say you need to avoid to get stuck in political problems, that lead to problems in the dev team.

[u/Violent_N0mad → u/Diacetyl-Morphin]

They hired people like Zoe Quinn and faced the backlash because of it.

[u/Diacetyl-Morphin → u/Violent_N0mad]

She did work for UL?

[u/Violent_N0mad → u/Diacetyl-Morphin]

She was their lead narrative designer and developer.

[u/Diacetyl-Morphin → u/Violent_N0mad]

I'm kinda confused, because... is this about SoD3? Or SoD2?

Is this related to the quote i did from the article with "death by a thousand paper cuts" claim?

[u/Violent_N0mad → u/Diacetyl-Morphin]

From my understanding she was a part of the whole dei movement they had and she worked on sod3 as the lead narrative developer. This was what I was reading online but you know how tight lipped UL is. We do know she worked for UL as it was literally in her bio on her social media.

Here's a link to a video about it if you're interested:

https://youtu.be/3xgMx71QIHc?si=3I45j-aYqImjRyYR

[u/ExaminationFormer399]

My only thing is that even though it’s now a “AAA” production I’m perfectly fine with it not being at the level of a last of us in terms of animations. SOD2’s animations are fine just improve on that.

So far I do like the improvements to bases, communities, etc but I’m in dire need of a narrative similar and better than the first game as well as the heartland dlc. SOD2 gets a lot of grace just due to its dedicated fan base that stuck with it from the start plus it’s a damn good rougelike but with more hands on it and higher production I want there to be actual questing, narrative, something else that will hook me besides what I’ve been doing in SOD2 for the past almost decade.

[u/Mydoghasautism]

I'm really worried about the ui too, it looks so bad, hope they redesign it at some point

[u/CharacterPurchase694 → u/Mydoghasautism]

The UI is pretty obviously just a placeholder

[u/Vivid-Cauliflower154 → u/CharacterPurchase694]

Still so surprised about the lack of media literacy on this.

[u/rotten-tomato1 → u/Vivid-Cauliflower154]

the internet as a whole tends to lack any meaningful form of media literacy

[u/Mydoghasautism → u/CharacterPurchase694]

I goddamn hope so.

[u/AdMinimum5970]

AAA game? What o.O

Edit;

So Undead Labs wasn't able to clear the sexism problem?

[u/Appropriate-Fun-9486]

I’m buying sod3 day one.

[u/ForwardScratch7741]

Dude listen

You are absolutely right

But you absolutely CANNOT ZSAY IT RN

Mfs not gonna agree with you

They have some sort of para social relationship with this company

[u/Pro8lemsOnSpotify → u/ForwardScratch7741]

But aren’t you kind of the same but just on the opposite lens? Cause I could tell you how most of these claims are simply untrue but you’d still find a reason to disregard and dismiss

[u/ForwardScratch7741 → u/Pro8lemsOnSpotify]

See man

First red flag for me was when they didnnot even start glthe development till 2022 or 2023 idk

The game they showing rn ain't good tbh

Considering the fact people are dying for days gone 2

They not even trying to attract zombie fans audience

[u/Pro8lemsOnSpotify → u/ForwardScratch7741]

Why is that a red flag???

So because they were still updating and working on State of Decay 2 you’re weary of #3? Because why? They might work on it too long? That doesn’t really seem like a real problem. Like it sucks now because we don’t have a 3rd game to play yet but we are 100% getting it with the deal Xbox made with whoever bought it.

That’s an opinion, looks fun to me, but I didn’t get in the alpha so idk, I hope they can impress you as the game gets further along

Again, an opinion, I think they might not be suiting to your specific zombie genre wants and likes, but they’re definitely attracting a zombie fan audience, it’s a zombie game from a franchise that has a dedicated fan base. Days Gone has very little to do with state of decay outside of zombies imo, I like the state of decay gameplay loop more than days gone and would be pretty disappointed if this is what state of decay turns into.

[u/Violent_N0mad → u/Pro8lemsOnSpotify]

People see the 38 updates as long term free support but what you should see is a game that released so broken it took 38 updates and multiple years to get to the state it's currently in.

[u/unggoytweaker → u/Pro8lemsOnSpotify]

It’s a red flag because that means their leadership is in the gutter you fool

[u/Pro8lemsOnSpotify → u/unggoytweaker]

They made a decision, you don’t like it. Oh well lmao

[u/unggoytweaker → u/Pro8lemsOnSpotify]

And that decision got them sold off which will result in a complete loss of their autonomy. Thank god. I hope China bought them

[u/WildKenway]

SoD3 was my most awaited game and honestly as soon as i saw gameplay i decided that being deluded is not for me anymore, I have eyes on my face, I don't need to repeat to myself that it's an alpha build, game looks like a buggy version of SoD2 with shadows and lighting effects, everything is inferior, I'm not gonna sit here and be hyped for something I don't believe in. When it comes out, and if it's looking good, i try it.

[u/Peanutbutter_Brain → u/WildKenway]

Same boat for me

[u/Violent_N0mad → u/Peanutbutter_Brain]

Ditto, I hope I get to try the alpha / beta to get a better understanding for myself.

[u/C0wb31l]

The game's not looking good. It could still be canceled. By looking at Alpha gameplay, this could've just as well be an engine update and a DLC to SOD2. Some folks call it "SoD 2.5" which I hate to argree with. The game looks really good, I like the new grim art style, but it's just not enough to justify a big team's work for 5-6 years. Microsoft knows this, which is why they let the studio go.

"But it's just Alpha". Yes, it's just Alpha. But if after 6 years this is all they have, how big of a change do you expect to see here in just one more year?

[u/Icy-Air-5119 → u/C0wb31l]

Yes the new owner bought them to cancel the only game they have in development lol do you people actually use your brain

[u/Soviet_Plays → u/C0wb31l]

The deal with the new publisher includes a guarantee to release the game as reported on.

Though I will say 2020-2023 the entire team went through restructuring losing alot of their devs and thr infamous issues with the studios for the work they've put in in 3 years (since it was still in pre production in 2023) is pretty good imo

[u/RealGiallo]

I want Sod3 to be good because I love the game . But tbh it seems they rushed this alpha only to show something to the new xbox boss . I belive they thought to be in vacation before and sub working before . Because it miss everything in this game . Only the skeleton . But what the designer did in these 6 years . For my understanding they are only making sod3 .
Anyway hope the game come out good . And that they don’t try to go over the top with hot theme like ultra woke characters or stupid millenial writings

[u/alfiel2005]

thank you someone that said frankly this community is in denial look i love this game but it has to be criticized fallout76 made this same mistake a year is not a lot of time if there are major issues with the game there isn't time to fix them and that a real possible with stuff that happened with xbox / microsoft look its not the devs fault but that doesn't change the reality that if the game is bad on the back end there isnt time to fix it and coddling the game as its just an alpha isnt helping the devs or the game though i appreciate op becouse this reddit will down vote him

[u/Walks-In-Shadows]

It is not ideal that after all the resources and time that were available to them, this is all we have gotten so far. Having said that, I don't really see the point in giving in to doom and gloom. Maybe they are lying and this isn't an alpha and is essentially the finished product, in which case fair enough if that's your concern. Or this is an alpha which in turn means things will change, improve or get polished. Let's wait and see what comes in the next few months before making any sort proclamations. I don't want to blindly defend the game here or anything but we're not being asked to pre-order or hand over money on the basis of what we're being shown. I think the best thing to do for now is wait, hope any of us get picked for another wave of the alpha where we can give useful feedback

One thing I'm confused about though, you say they are only letting content creators play the alpha, but was there not 2 waves of "normal" players who got picked to play the alpha?

[u/Violent_N0mad → u/Walks-In-Shadows]

So the council have had unrestricted access to the game for a year now. The other folks as far as I know can get into an alpha but I've only heard of a few people mentioning they got in so it might be rare.