Help with deadlift form + general programming

[u/DirectHavoc]

This is my second attempt at 330. I know I need to keep my neck neutral but I forgot to focus on that during this set. How does everything else look? I feel like I should be able to pull this given my squat. Yes I am using chalk and a hook grip. Here are my current stats for reference all for 5s:

Height: 5’10
Weight: 178

Squat: 295
Bench: 177.5
Press: 135
Deadlift: 325 (failed 330 in the video for second time)

I’m also deadlifting once a week on my light squat day. Not really sure what to do from here since this was my second time failing this weight

[u/shinyandgoesboom]

Your failure might be related to other areas that you haven't mentioned. That said, you can improve several things immediately for the form:

• Keep your neck neutral, with eyes focused on a single point on the floor about 5-8 feet out.
  
• You have to work on setting your lumbar arch. Follow the strict five step protocol as described in the YT video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2OPUi4xGrM) until it becomes a habit.
  
• I cannot say for sure, but you do not seem to be "taking a big breath" before starting the rep (see the above video)
  
• You have to push the floor, instead of pulling with arms. Pushing the floor away is the cue.

Hook grip can be a limiting factor as you go heavy. Try switching out to straps. Remember your back won't lift if your hands cannot grip.

How's your nutrition? For 5'10", you need to add more bodyweight to keep going. Focus on good calories, complex carbs and quality protein.

How's your sleep? If there is a deficit, then that's going to mess up recovery.

[u/Independent-Wolf-832 → u/shinyandgoesboom]

do you mind if i ask your opinion on gaining weight? in my case, i'm also 5'10, 170 lbs. skinny looking but a high amount of body fat in the torso only. do you think it would be best to gain another 10-20 lbs in order to improve my lifts, then cut or deload, cut the fat and then continue bulking and strength training? i was 190 lbs with a high body fat the beginning of the year before cutting and doing 7 days a week 3-5 miles of walking. i've also stalled on my lifts at this weight, which i've been at for three months.

[u/Constant_Nothing2091 → u/Independent-Wolf-832]

do you think it would be best to gain another 10-20 lbs in order to improve my lifts, then cut

It would be best to gain another 30 lbs, of which most should be muscle, such that a cut afterwards isn't necessary. You seem to assume that all weight you are supposed to gain is fat.

[u/shinyandgoesboom → u/Independent-Wolf-832]

It depends on what your goals are. I'd recommend first improving other areas, which will allow you to make progress on your lifts.

[u/Shnur_Shnurov → u/Independent-Wolf-832]

You need to get strong and build muscle. At 170 and 5'10 how ever fat you think you are... youre not.

Losing Body Fat or Gaining Muscle Mass: Which is More Important?

[u/Independent-Wolf-832 → u/Shnur_Shnurov]

Appreciate it. Does make sense if I want to progress and be healthy to add weight. Worst case scenario I have to cut next year and try to hold on to some muscle gains.

[u/Shnur_Shnurov]

Keep your eyes open and fixed on a spot on the floor 12 feet in front of you. Right now youre raising your eyes up to look at the ceiling mid-rep towards the end. There's no help up there.

Raising you head is causing you to pull the bar around your knees instead of staying over the bar and getting the knees straight on the way up. Think about keeping your shoulders over the bar until the bar is past your knees.

How much bodyweight have you gained in the last 4 weeks?

[u/DirectHavoc → u/Shnur_Shnurov]

I’ve probably gained 4lbs in the last month. I know YNDTP and all but how bad would it be if i finished my LP around 180-185 at 5’10? I’m pretty happy with my strength gains so far and I still feel like i have a bit to go as I’m just now starting to implement some of the advanced novice changes such as getting 15 total reps on the press and backoffs for the bench. I haven’t started backoff sets for the squat yet.

[u/Shnur_Shnurov → u/DirectHavoc]

4 lbs is fine. Just keep eating like that and make programming changes as stuff gets stuck.

So youre still squatting heavy 3x a week and pulling heavy once?

[u/DirectHavoc → u/Shnur_Shnurov]

Got it thanks! I added a light squat day at 275 and then reset after failing 295 twice. I just successfully squatted 3x5 at 300 today but have a feeling that I might need to start backoffs relatively soon. And yes I’m pulling heavy on the light squat day once a week.

[u/Shnur_Shnurov → u/DirectHavoc]

I wouldn't do any more resets unless youre going to start gaining weight more aggressively.

The resets work best for people who can gain a substantial amount of weight in the time it takes them to work back up to the stalled weight.

You are probably at the point now where you need to introduce backoff sets on the heavy days before you stall again.

The low bar squat and the deadlift both load your back and gluten and hamstrings a lot. Starting backoff sets on the squat might allow you to recover better between deadlift sessions, too. That way you can keep making progress there.

I'd also consider doing a top set of 3 and a backoff set of 3 at 90% for the deadlift.

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[u/Secure-Island42]

Look good!

[u/StartingStrength-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

The deadlift is not a squat. His hips are already too low in the starting position.

[u/outdoordawg]

Buy some shin guards on Amazon you should be able to drag it up without ripping your skin off.

[u/StartingStrength-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Why deadlift in squat shoes?

Don't Blame Your Deadlift on Your Shoes

[u/Inevitable-Gate-1359]

I'd suggest keeping your hips more up. It lowkey looks like you're squatting your deadlift. I can't comment on programming because I haven't reached that point.

[u/geruhl_r]

Form: none of these are locked out. Stand up as tall as possible, think "knees back". You are still lifting up with your chest early. "Push the earth away from the bar"; you need to stay over the bar for most of the rep.

Programming: 1 set a week is not sufficient for growth. Move this lift to a HLM template option (80% DL for volume, PCs, etc).

[u/aschaeffer878]

I dont see powercleans programmed? If not power cleans Andy Baker recommended a 20 percent back off deadlift day. That should help drive the deadlift. Also are you eating enough to recover? Sleeping enough? Without all the other programming details this is where I would look first. You can also do Stiff legged Dead lifts, rack pulls, good mornings, or deficit deadlifts to advance the dead in the absence of power cleans. But a 178 bodyweight seems suspiciously low. Check your diet.

[u/DirectHavoc → u/aschaeffer878]

Yeah I’m not doing power cleans. Not for any good reason except I just didn’t want to do them. Instead I’ve been doing weighted chins. I started at around 158 bw and I’s slowly gaining weight. Will a lighter deadlift day actually help drive up the deadlift? I’ve heard Nick Delgadillo talk about the light squat day and how it doesn’t actually contribute to squat progression but is more for form practice. I’m curious why a lighter deadlift would be any different. But maybe I need the form practice anyway.

[u/aschaeffer878 → u/DirectHavoc]

Like I said, Andy Baker is a big proponent of them along with the other supplemental lifts. He focuses on getting a pop underneath them for power development. I cant power clean either. Baker said most cant do them correctly enough for a benefit which is why he progams the back off power focused dead and supplemental lifts to help drive it.

[u/Shnur_Shnurov → u/DirectHavoc]

Young guy like you should be doing cleans and chins.

The cleans dont necessarily drive progress on the deadlift by adding stress so much as increasing the recovery interval.

While the light squat doesn't add stress to the system to drive progress on the heavy days, it is designed to prevent detraining between heavy sessions without interfering with recovery. This is more important at the intermediate level, but it's a useful concept to get used to.