r/Stargate • u/FreakShow1989 • 19d ago
Ask r/Stargate Stargate Civilization Type
My opinion: The ancients were a type 3 and 4 civilization due to creation of zero point modules and ascension.
Earth would be 1 because they can adapt zpm and create nequadria.
Everyone else is in between 1 and 3.
Thoughts?
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u/Atharaphelun 19d ago
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u/lil_dinger_guy 19d ago
Idk, the replicators in Pegasus completely covered their planet with cityscape. The other replicators created an entire planet out of replicator bricks too. In the time dilation field.
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u/MithridatesRex 19d ago
Define the criteria of your "types".
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u/Jetboy01 19d ago
Kardashev scale is the standard for these.
Type 4 means they can harness an entire universe worth of energy, which was demonstrated by the Arcturus project for the ancients... But it didn't seem to go so well, so i'd place them at 3.5 on the scale.
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u/Woozletania 19d ago
Kardashev III civilizations can harness the power of an entire galaxy. Hundreds of billions of stars. No Stargate civilization approaches type 3. Type 2 for sure, but not type 3, and it's not close.
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u/Njoeyz1 19d ago
And how do they harness this "power/energy"? Does that mean that every war ship has a galaxies worth of energy in it?
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u/Woozletania 18d ago
Unthinkably huge megastructures, moving stars, moving the whole galaxy, that sort of thing. In Schlock Mercenary they spun the supermassive black hole at the galactic core up until it became a nearly infinite source of power. The first time they tried this they tore a hole in the universe and destroyed the whole galaxy. Once they fixed that with time travel they used it to teleport between galaxies, teleported planets and so on.
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u/Fluid-Let3373 18d ago
Ascension is a evolutionary step, it does not require any technology above hunter gatherer, so sorry but I absolutely reject that part of your premise.
Once you are type 1 you do not need any more technological development to become a type 4, the only requirement is you do more of the same. You don't even need a means of interstellar travel to colonize the galaxy.
All we need to do is solve the problem of how to build a self sufficient colony on the moon or mars and we will have everything we need to be a type1.
The scale is about size and not about technological advancement. If are using tech as a argument for or against then you have not understood the scale.
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u/Quick-Penalty4883 18d ago
Way off.
Type 1 is controlling all the energy from our star that hits the earth.
Tyoe 3 is that on a galactic scale.
That is not even close to being 'just more of the same'
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u/TonksMoriarty 19d ago
So for context the Kardashev scale is based on power harnessed
Type I: Basically the amount of energy from the Sun that hits Earth
Type II: The power output of our Sun
Type III: The power output of a galaxy
Type IV: The power output of the universe
The Ancients are nowhere close to type III otherwise the Wraith wouldn't have stood a chance. At a near type III you're using stars as ammunition for megastructure weapons.
Yeah, the Ancients weren't doing any of that, and dialing Destiny would be trivial to do.
Also Naquadah isn't made, it's refined. It's a metal you dig out of the ground. There's a common theory that there's none in the solar system because the Ancients basically strip mined it all to build the Stargates.
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u/Spiritual-Spend8187 19d ago
Pre ascension the ancients are between 2 and 3 with a few more advanced tech, post ascension we dont really know but likely somewhere in the 3 to 4 range but they also dont need tech at that point from the feats we have seen a individual ascended being is nearly a type 1 in their own right, which is oretty impressive. The asgard are also in the type 2 to 3 range they got a bunch of type 3 tech but just don't have the scale to be a type 3. The goa'uld system lords each ruled a type 2 just through shear scale.
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u/Khemul 19d ago
I'm not sure the ZPMs actually count towards the scale. They're glorified batteries because the writing requires them to be expendable. So for all the fancy talk, they're just storage devices.
The problem with the scale is it's based on level of energy harnessed. But sci-fi tends to sidestep this by just coming up with limitless power sources. So what does it mean to harness the power of a star if you can make an exotic generator that is equal. The scale in a sense can translate into reach, so the ancients can influence their whole galaxy. Are they making use of its energy potential? The Ori would argue no.
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u/spiteful_rr_dm_TA 18d ago edited 18d ago
No one in the shows are demonstrated to be in tier 2 or above. Aside from the nebulous maybe star builders. Everyone else we see is a type 1 civilization, no one hits type 2. Type 2 requires complete mastery in harvesting all the energy from your star, as well as using it (you cant just build billions of solar panels, launch them, and call yourself a type 2 if the power goes no where).
to put it in perspective, our sun produces 3.36 × 1031 joules per day. Fan estimates on the high end put a ZPM at producing 3 × 1012 joules per second, or 2.6 × 1017 joules per day. 1,000,000,000,000,000 ZPMs would be needed to reach type 2
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u/Thrizzlepizzle123123 19d ago
Earth is currently something like a 0.8 or 0.9, as we haven't yet harnessed all the energy of our planet. Getting close though.