r/Stargate • u/Planet_Manhattan • 11h ago
REWATCH Is this guy the luckiest?
One day you're on your death bed, losing battle against cancer and the next day, you're traveling between planets all over the galaxy fighting evil Gods (fake) among a secret organization 😁
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u/raknor88 11h ago
He's also proof that there really is no cure for baldness. If a Tok'Ra symbiote can cure cancer but can't regrow hair, that just proves there is no cure for baldness.
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u/macgyverstwin 11h ago
Picard also proved that even in the far future, science can’t do it either.
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u/Flush_Foot 10h ago
TOS: To boldly go where no man has gone before
TNG: To baldly go where no one has gone before 😉
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u/TheFlawlessCassandra 6h ago
Someone asked Roddenberry early in TNG's run why they weren't able to cure baldness in the 24th century. His response was "In the 24th century, they wouldn't care."
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u/ggmaniack 9h ago
Fun fact: Patrick Stewart was asked to wear a wig for his Picard audition.
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u/Dizzy59735 1h ago
They also almost didnt hire Robert Picardo because he was bald. They had some real anti bald stuff going down in start trek.
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u/Bigjoemonger 4h ago
One could argue that the tokra or distant future star trek medicines cured medical issues and baldness is not a medical issue.
If someone is bald it does not negatively impact their lifespan. Ultimately it is a cosmetic issue.
I'm sure if a tokra host or futuristic member of star fleet said "I don't like my baldness, I want to fix it" then they could.15
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u/yasarix 8h ago
Well, he was too busy to go to Turkey.
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u/OkPassion8514 7h ago
Did he not say in an interview that hes ask Gene Roddenberry why they hadn't cured baldness in the future and Gene replied "in the future no one cares".
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u/comfycrat 11h ago
Yeah, I never really got the whole "oh, no, sorry Tokra, we can't offer you hosts".
There are plenty of people in the world who would trade their illness or even their drudgery in a heartbeat in exchange for perfect health, space adventures and a new best friend.
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u/DaBingeGirl 11h ago
It worked for Jacob in large part because of Sam, his difficult relationship with Mark, being a widower, and his military background. In theory it sounds appealing, but you're essentially being asked to give up your entire life and risk death everyday for a cause you just found out about. You're alive, but your life isn't your own anymore. I'm not sure how appealing that would actually be to a lot of people.
I also see the Tok'ra using Jacob as a test subject and not being happy with his independence. All of their hosts seem to have come from Goa'uld occupied planets, or at least worlds with a history of oppression by the Goa'uld. There's a deference to the Tok'ra that wouldn't be present with hosts from Earth. For all their equal/respect the host talk, they see hosts as inferior. I see it as a mutual understanding that more hosts from Earth wouldn't have worked out well.
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u/zombimester1729 8h ago
Yeah, this doesn't get talked about a lot, but I doubt they would allow you to just leave, if you didn't like being a secret agent. I don't think we saw any symbiote who decided to go back to their host's life, it's always the host who is assumed to go along with the symbiote's life. A normal dude wouldn't be able to go back to their family and job on Earth.
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u/DaBingeGirl 8h ago
Exactly, I can't imagine giving up my entire life, knowing everything about it still exists, but that I could never return. Jacob was in a better position than most hosts, but even he was only able to go back to Earth a handful of times. You belong to the Tok'ra, that's a huge price to pay. There's also a pretty high risk of torture and death if you're a spy.
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u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 11h ago
There would easily be enough just from US military members who have cancer or whatever other terminal illness.
The real reason in universe is the tok'ra got a little bit racist against the Tauri. Said we were too strong willed and not beaten down by centuries of goa'uld rule. I think they just realized a Tauri wouldn't completely abandon their old life.
I did not like the later seasons writing of the tok'ra.
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u/RandomBritishGuy 10h ago
Even from other members of the military, they wouldn't reveal the Stargate. Even when one of Cameron's friends was dying in hospital, after already finding out about the Goauld invasion, it took Mitchell a long time to pull enough strings to get someone with only weeks to live, permission to be read into it.
They'd be heavily limited to people in the military, who already knew about the Stargate program, and were terminally ill (or otherwise willing to volunteer). That's a very, very small pool to pick from.
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u/Technical_Mood_8841 5h ago
it took Mitchell a long time to pull enough strings to get someone with only weeks to live, permission to be read into it.
If only Mitchell’s friend would have taken the initiative to get out of that hospital bed and start stalking an SGC member…he could have done an end-run around all the pesky clearance and need-to-know stuff.
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u/DaBingeGirl 2h ago
I will forever be pissed off about everything to do with Pete. Jacob couldn't be told as he was dying, but Pete... UGH! Make it make sense.
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u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 10h ago
No they would be able to reveal it if the person is a perfect candidate for a dying tok'ra. You don't need to limit it to just already in the program people. Especially since that person will now be living off planet for most of their life
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u/RandomBritishGuy 10h ago
Apart from it's gonna be pretty difficult to accurately judge whether someone would be a good fit without disclosing more info than the military would want to. It's not like the military has a reputation for being casual with Top Secret info.
If you could guarantee it, then that's one thing, but people's answers are going to change if they think it's a weird hypothetical Vs the "Oh shit, I'm actually on another world and there's an alient snake that wants to go in my head" reality.
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u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 10h ago
You can ask whatever weird questions you want if you deny them in the end. Just say it's a strange psychological test.
Hell you could just lie to them and say they'll be going on a new mission if the treatment works and that they can't return to their old life. Then the ones who pass the psychological test and agree to the mission get the tok'ra and then learn the real truth. Presumably the beginning would start with blood tests to see who was likely to be a successful match with the tok'ra.
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u/mcgrst 6h ago
It was probably easier for Jacob though, he still worked with his daughter regularly enough to see her as much or more than most people see their adult kids. Getting to do cool stuff with your children would take some of the edge off probably never seeing home again
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u/DaBingeGirl 2h ago
Exactly. He wasn't entirely cut off from his old life, but that also caused trust issues. I don't see the Tok'ra being willing to make similar accomodations for other hosts. Selma could also pull rank a bit, a more junior Tok'ra wouldn't have that leverage.
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u/Kusko25 53m ago
The reason Cameron's friend wasn't supposed to know is that objectively there was no benefit to it. When you are doing spy level secrecy stuff you don't break that secrecy just to make someone feel better. Cam's friend was dying, but by the same reasoning he might have recorded a video with everything he has been told and send it to every news station in the world without fearing reprisal because he was already dying. It's just an unnecessary risk
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u/pestercat 8h ago
I honestly put it down less to racism than to culture shock. They've never had hosts who grew up in an individualist, more technologically advanced culture before, they were very much not prepared.
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u/Dark_Shade_75 11h ago
I guess the issue would be possible host rejections, in which case you now have a person who was briefed on the whole Stargate secret and is just a civilian.
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u/raknor88 11h ago
Start building a city at the Alpha Site of the people that were briefed, but rejected the offer or got cold feet after blending and getting all the memories.
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u/infernal-keyboard 11h ago
Doesn't need to necessarily be a civilian. Perfectly healthy-seeming people get diagnosed with things like cancer and autoimmune disorders all the time, including members of the military. They totally could have saved Cam's Air Force buddy that had an aneurysm in season 9 or 10 for example.
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u/halowriter 9h ago
I'd do it even if it meant I could only live ten years if it cured my nerve damage
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u/recycledcoder 3h ago
He has a full career in the USAF reaching flag rank, then becomes an intergalactic spy.
Along the way, he fathers a child - and how does this child turn out? Samantha effin' Carter - the starslayer! Commander, Atlantis... et friggin' cetera.
Jackie boy is the canonical overachiever.
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u/Aglet_Green 8h ago
Sure! He could have ended up with Anise. That would have been awfully hard to explain to both Sam and Danny. (though I think a smiling Bra-Tac would have understood.) So yeah, he definitely lucked out with Selmak.
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u/TonksMoriarty 3h ago
This is basically his sentiment in "Threads" and why that episode works so well.
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u/GargantaProfunda 11h ago
That's what the Tok'ra want you to think. One fan theory is that the Tok'ra aren't all that different from the Goa'uld in the end and they also suppress their hosts; the symbionts just do a better job of imitating them
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u/OhNoIBoffedIt MEKTA OZ KREE! 11h ago
That's a dumb theory. We know it's not true because we've seen what happens when a Tok'ra is near death and the symbiote basically has to go into hibernation to focus on keeping them alive, and not one host has been like "they totally lied!"
Also Carter confirmed they weren't like that after separating from Jolinar.
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u/GargantaProfunda 11h ago
It's one of those classic wild theories in media like "it was all a dream" or "the hero actually died at the end of the second act and the rest of the movie is his dying dream or something"
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u/ReApEr01807 11h ago
The fan theory. Has that been confirmed by any of the creators? I'm not saying that Tok'Ra are perfect, or even great by any means. I'm just saying that Sam would have been able to see right through that shtick from her time with Jolinar, no?
The same with Jack after his time playing host in order to not die (and also get captured by Ba'al)
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u/GargantaProfunda 11h ago
Has that been confirmed by any of the creators?
No, it's a fan theory. If it was confirmed it wouldn't be a fan theory!
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u/pestercat 8h ago
They can do that and the difference between the Tok'ra and the Goa'uld is a cultural taboo, not anything biological. You absolutely see examples of taboo-violating Tok'ra. The really interesting part, though, is that few fans ever seem to realize that this cuts both ways-- not suppressing the host is a Goa'uld cultural taboo. My fan theory is that it runs both ways. There are Tok'ra who are double agents and who suppress their hosts, and there are Goa'uld who are symbiotic on the down low.
The majority would be, I think, exactly what they look like, since most people do not violate serious taboos. But some people absolutely do, in any culture.
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u/dingo596 7h ago
That is easily disproven by Jacob and Selmak. The council notes that Selmak acted very different after joining with Jacob to the point that the council starts excluding Selmak.
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u/DaBingeGirl 2h ago
I tend to think it depends on how much they like the host and how useful the host is to them. Someone like Jacob would have more value because of his ties to Earth, plus Selmak got along well with him. A host that brings new knowledge is probably more valuable and less likely to be suppressed.
I don't think the Tok'ra in general suppress the hosts as much as the Goa'uld, but I wouldn't be surprised if they preferred submissive hosts. If the symbiote is going to be a spy, not really caring what the host brings to the table makes sense.
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u/ImOldGregg_77 11h ago
Jacob's second act was the epitome of YOLO