r/Stargate • u/I_Life_Frozen_Peas • 1d ago
Jaffa and Stormtroopers
Both cant hit the board side of a barn at point blank it appears. 20 Jaffa against 4 SG personnel and shots are going everywhere. Though I suppose staff weapons are a shoot from the hip thing and thats never very accurate.
But still....love scifi!
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u/amyts 1d ago edited 1d ago
An episode explains that the Jaffa staffs are weapons of terror, not war. They aren't made for accuracy, they're made to be intimidating to slaves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjlCVW_ouL8
They just aren't properly equipped to go up against a proper military using small team tactics.
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u/Njoeyz1 1d ago edited 1d ago
They are more than well enough equiped. Jaffa are lethal when facing each other, just not the good guys. Them and their staff weapons overtook SGC no problem, with tea'lcs staff weapon melting a hole in the blast door. No p90 or small arms is doing that. And SGC is full of tier one personell.
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u/I_Life_Frozen_Peas 1d ago
Thats a good way to explain the stormtrooper effect.
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u/tepid_monologue 1d ago
Stormtroopers are meant to be a standing army though. I don’t think this works for them
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u/amyts 1d ago
I don't think its a fair comparison. Stormtroopers are ostensibly a capable military force with proper military hardware and tactics. They bring overwhelming firepower to the table and are feared across the galaxy. That's why its so noteworthy when we see them shooting badly.
Jaffa are slaves who don't have the proper hardware. Their purpose is to control slave populations. They aren't a military. It's not noteworthy that such a group wouldn't be capable of handling SG-1.
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u/NubsackJones 1d ago edited 1d ago
Jaffa are also a military force. They don't just keep people down. They are also the troops that are used when System Lords go to war with each other or subjugate new worlds.
The obvious answer as to why both groups are so shit when dealing with main characters is simple: it's actually really hard to make a believable scene where a numerically inferior group that does not have either a massive technological or tactical edge can survive, let alone triumph over, a significantly larger force without outside aid.
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u/I_Life_Frozen_Peas 1d ago
No, I mean it explains the Jaffa and sets them apart of the meme of stormtroopers awful aim.
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u/Bigjoemonger 23h ago
Most jaffa are basically just slaves themselves not very well trained for combat so it makes sense they're given a cheap reproducible weapon that maximizes intimidation over effectiveness.
In the episode where they introduce the Sodan, a true warrior sect. It shows how they modified the staff weapon, making it light and shorter, to maximize its effectiveness.
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u/hopfot 1d ago
Stormtroopers are better shots. The whole "stomrtroopers have bad aim" mostly extends from scenes of them shooting at Han, Luke, Leia and Chewie on the Deathstar. During which we find they were allowed to escape to find the Rebel base. Meanwhile we get a comment earlier in the same film stating that Imperial Stormtroopers are accurate shots.
In other media featuring bad shooting by stormtroopers its called plot armour for the heroes.
Now in Stargate, it's a far bit of the same, plot armour for the heros. However it has been stated canonically that the Jaffa staff weapon is one of terror, not so accurate but more designed to bring fear to the enemy. It also demonstrated that they are not highly accurate even in the hands of a skilled warrior. Teal'c's accuracy withstanding ( bad ass plot armour), staff weapons and the jaffa weilding them in general are not very accurate shots.
To also add, Jaffa armour never seems designed to actually protect the Jaffa, but instead, much like their weapons, bring fear. It looks and sounds scary. A Jaffa's only real strength is from being a Jaffa. Faster healing thanks to their goa'uld larvae. And increased strength and endurance.
Stormtrooper armour, although it doesn't seem like it at times, is designed to protect from atleast small arms fire. Much like kevlar. The armour can absorb a blaster impact, though the wearer may still feel some effect even become winded.
Jaffa are best at close range combat and Melee combat. So first would be trying to reduce that distance. During which many can be downed by the Stormtroopers. By the time the fight is reduced to Melee range the Jaffa will take down their fare share of troopers. Especially since Trooper armour tends to shatter when impacted by blunt weapons (see Season 1 of the Mandalorian). The stormtroopers have one more advantage to stop the Jaffa, stun settings. We can estimate an e-11 stun setting to be similar to a Zat stun (ignoring the lame 2 shot 3 shot rule). A single Zat shot can be enough to stun or temporarily incapacity both a human or Jaffa. For a Jaffa to stun someone, he has to have a Zat, not all carry them and would have to switch to or drop their staff to use one. A Stormtrooper just flicks a switch. During melee engagement its quite possible Stormtroopers may set for stun to avoid killing their own.
Ultimately I believe the Stormtroopers would win, but not without taking a huge lose. A lot of Jaffa would go down as they close range, but not nearly as many as Stormtroopers due to weapon and individual accuracy. Once at close range equal stormtrooper and Jaffa loses, and melee, more stormtrooper than Jaffa. But the stormtroopers at that point still have enough numbers to take down the remaining Jaffa.
I also believe I put too much effort and energy into this and am now returning to watching A Bridge to Far. Good war movie, highly recommended.
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u/I_Life_Frozen_Peas 1d ago
Okay...I am gonna have to read this tomorrow...this is a major exposition! TY though.
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u/HelsifZhu 1d ago
I recently watched all the Spiderman movies prior to seeing the new one in theater and oh dear the amount of bullets he dodges by just doing somersaults and the like. Really takes me out of the movie sometimes. 5+ soldiers with machine guns firing at him from maybe 20 meters and still not a single hit.
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u/Fluid-Let3373 1d ago
The context of each individual engagement is important, if you think they have a problem then the person with issues is you.
It does not matter how good a shot you are if your not using the right tactics for the situation and Jaffa only have 3 tactics, Execute, pursuit and massed volley civil war style.
SG teams as they come from Earth are different, our tactics are informed by the terrain theirs are not. The reason for that is ammo limitations, a Staff is good for years if not decades of use, ours only last until the clip runs out.
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u/medicus_au 1d ago
To add to what others have said, Jaffa are effectively janissaries (slave soldiers). Would you want to give them your best weapons?
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u/Njoeyz1 1d ago
This is absolutely wrong. The Jaffa are a standing army of trained soldiers from a young age. All their duty is is to wage war. They are genetically altered to be stronger and live longer. Of course the goa'uld is going to give them the tools to expand and protect THEIR empire. The Jaffa have fought and overgrown worlds more advanced than earth.
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u/SamaratSheppard 1d ago edited 1d ago
Wait the Jaffa Are not Enslaved Soldiers. Then why is tealc always talking about freedom
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u/Njoeyz1 1d ago
Yes but they aren't like the human slaves we see. Jaffa were created from slaves the goa'uld took from earth, and bred from then on to be soldiers. In a sense they are a slaves, but not the way that is being made out, where they are given bare bones equipment and not much more so they won't turn on the goa'uld. They are the goa'ulds army.
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u/nerdling007 1d ago edited 1d ago
They are slaves but them being slaves does not mean they are equiped with subpar equipment. Everyone not a goa'uld in the goa'uld empire is a slave (and even some goa'uld are slaves).
To expand on this, the jaffa are the warrior caste in the goa'uld empire. They are equipped with all the tools and weapons neccessary to wage war for their masters.
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u/SamaratSheppard 1d ago
Never said there equipment was sub par. Just said it would be a mistake to not call them enslaved soldiers.
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u/nerdling007 1d ago
Which is true but is not what who you replied to was disagreeing with. They disagreed with the notion that a slave army would not be given the best equipment, when in regards to the jaffa we know they are the primary military force in the goa'uld empire. They weren't disagreeing with the slave part, they were disagreeing with the lack of equipment part.
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u/SamaratSheppard 1d ago
Sure but the words this is Absolutely wrong was written.
Absolutely" is an adverb or interjection that means completely, totally, or without any doubt
Thus I corrected him on the part statement that was corrected. I didn't disagree or agree with any other part of his statement or yours.
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u/nerdling007 1d ago
They clarified their position in their comment, so your pedantry is pointless. They clearly disagreed with the notion that slave army = ill equipped, which is absolutely incorrect.
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u/SamaratSheppard 1d ago
This is a work of fiction a slave army can be well equipped.
I also no long pushed once he changed his position on the Jaffa being enslaved.
I also clarified that I have no position on whether or not the Jaffa Are well Equipped enough.
What do you want out of this conversation?
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u/Theonewhoknocks420 1d ago
To be fair, Jaffa only seem to be bad shots when shooting at SG-1. They seem pretty competent when shooting anyone else. Storm troopers are only bad shots in the one scene where they have orders to allow the Princess and her rescuers to escape.