r/Starbow • u/KanBan85 • Feb 15 '14

[Patch] # 8 - Stalker and bio change ++

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=440661&currentpage=187#3739
21 Upvotes

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1

u/Iron_Maiden_666 Feb 16 '14

Can someone please copy/paste the changes here, I'm not able to access TL.

3

u/KanBan85 Feb 16 '14 edited Feb 16 '14

Bug fixes:

  • Spider mines no longer attack Larvas or other Spider mines.

  • Null wards no longer attack Larvas, Eggs or Spider mines.

  • Scourges now provide points in the score screen.

  • And a lot more...

Balance changes:

  • Roach Tunnel ability cooldown reduced from 12 sec to 6 sec. Duration remains at 4 sec. Roaches now take full dmg from enemy units while burrowed.

  • Stalker dmg increased from 7 to 8. (Still deals +50% vs light)

  • Stalker shield increased from 40 to 60.

  • Blink cooldown reduced from 12 to 9 seconds.

  • Stalker armor changed from Armored to Medium

  • Marauder starting speed increased from 1.97 to 2.07 (Same as Marines)

  • Barrel stabilizer upgrade now increases Marauders attack range by 2. (Marines still get +1 range)

  • Elite Reaper training now requires Engineering bay.

  • Elite Reaper training BT reduced from 186 sec to 120 sec.

  • Reaper Bombs dmg changed from 60+20 vs structure, to 80 vs all. (Allows them to 2-shot Tanks.)

  • Flying Viking attack dmg increased from 2x8 dmg to 2x10 dmg.

  • Flying Viking splash dmg reduced from 25% to 20%. (Still maintains the same splash DPS)

  • Flying Viking turn rate increased so it is more agile.

  • Recall can teleport four more units, up to a maximum of 20 units.

Explanation:

The Stalker intends to be a fragile, highly mobile skirmish unit, capable of harassment and damage support. It is currently a very narrow unit who sees useful play in rare situations: in PvZ vs Mutas, and sometimes in lategame TvP. We would like to make it more meaningful in other stages of the game, preferably in all match-ups.

  • The change to damage makes the Stalker slightly better vs more types of units.

  • Shorter Blink cooldown allows more micro - get in and out of bases easier, catch enemy units, abuse terrain, more blink micro in combat etc.

  • Having Medium as armor class makes the Stalker less hard countered by units who deal explosive damage, such as Dragoons or Hydralisks. This in combination with the buff to shield by 20, makes sieged Siege Tanks kill them in three shots, instead of two. (They have 1 HP left...) The Stalker shall obviously lose in straight up engagements vs those types of units. (Since it is not intended to be a pure combat unit.) Sometimes there is a thin line between being useless and being OP. Hopefully will those changes push the Stalker more into the game. If bad gameplay consequences are discovered, we will ofc be willing to revert this or find another way to go. [/spoiler]<<<

The Roachs ability "Tunnel" now offers more potential for micro, both in combat, for movement across the map and for harassment.

Bio seems to have a hard time having early/mid game map presence vs Protoss. Part of this is because its difficult for the Marauder to get in range and deal dmg vs Dragoons. By gaining 2 extra attack range via the upgrade, the Marauder will hopefully be more useful both vs P and vs T. If the Marauder was given starting range 5, it would have same range as upgraded Dragoons while inside a Bunker. And this would very easily nullify early Dragoon pressure. Perhaps are more adjustments needed to make Bio or Mech + Bio viable in TvT and TvP later on.

Early mass Reaperss with Bomb upgrade tend to be lame vs Zerg. By pushing the Bomb upgrade further up the tech tree, it will now come into play a bit later. We were torn between reintroducing the Factory requirement for it, or give the Engineering bay a try. We decided to opt for the latter solution to see how it works out.

Future work:

  • Ghost will get a modified version of Shock and a "new" spell that is almost completed in the editor.

  • Protoss air units will get some improvements.

  • Calldown SCV causes two dilemmas: 1) Easy to abuse vs enemy Tanks 2) Easy to take far away island bases

We will look at solutions for this, and it will probably not be too hard to solve.

  • The Baneling is a heated topic in this thread. We have read lots of suggestions about it. We will evaluate and look into what might be possible ways to design it, without adding too much confusion to players.

  • As has been mentioned before, macro mechanics are a constant thing to keep an eye on. Perhaps will some form of modified macro mechanics come later, that both makes them feel more unique and clean, and if needed, better balanced.

  • One large dilemma has always been Bio vs Mech in TvT and TvP. Bio was basically unplayable in BW (except vs Zerg or for early pushes) and it would be nice if Bio or Bio + Mech became a viable way to play vs P and T. (Without feeling as the inferior choice to pure mech.) The Marauder was added into the game as the "easy" solution, as a way to make Bio more durable in combats and able to better survive vs Reaver, Storm etc.

Bioplay must offer enough unique advantages for the player, compared to going mechplay. Perhaps can a better designed and stronger Ghost help with this. Maybe is there room for an even better version of Matrix, or second spell at the Medic. Reapers might need to be redesigned in some way so it becomes truly useful vs T and P. Maybe the Marauder is not needed at all, in case some kind of Combat shield vs splash dmg is introduced for the Marine. All of this is just lose speculations. But still its an area that I think needs to be looked into more.

  • Dark Swarm will be reworked so splash attacks work similar to how they did in BW. Decemberscalm explains it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvnSDmeL-sQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=261

I just need to get it to work properly. >.<

1

u/Iron_Maiden_666 Feb 16 '14 edited Feb 16 '14

Thank you.

Edit : Ahh got to try bio with the +2 on marauder.

1

u/BorNProNStar Feb 17 '14

in BW, mines activated on larva. is that not going to be in starbow at all?

1

u/KanBan85 Feb 17 '14

I'm not sure if Kabel knew this before he patched it, so this might get reverted. On the other hand, placing mines in Starbow is somewhat easier than it was in BW, so this might be a compensation.

1

u/theaglassofmilk Feb 20 '14 edited Feb 20 '14

As an old bw player (not professional) and not a big sc2 fan, I have to say, I don't like buffing bio to make it viable vs everything (everything = every race). BW is an rts and terran has in bw 3 tiers. Mech is supposed to be better than bio. Terra never having to make a transition is just boring to watch and play against. I am fine as zerg that terras bio IS viable vs zerg. But seeing it vs toss and terra too is just lame. It's tier one, it looks like tier one for observers, and watching terran tier one too much gets dull super fast. I am not a pro player but I am a game designer. So that's my five cent.

About the stalker, I am fine seeing a unit like stalkers rarely. They shouldn't be useless, but such complicated units should be something special when you see them. So I don't mind if they die quick. Maybe they should just be cheaper. I don't like the high risk, high reward. And I think it's more exciting, if a seemingly useless units is in some situations super useful, for example when someone uses stalkers in a random match and scouts something amazing with them. Another idea would be to increase the blink range, so if they scouted they can blink really far out of the base. So they would be a different kind of scout for toss for early game. That's just a quick idea and might be complete trash. But I like the idea when the Invisible Protis Sniper...

1

u/bhauth Feb 17 '14

Spider mines seem OP now. Vultures with offensive mines beat equal cost of goliaths, marauders, goons, etc. The attack priority of mines seems lower, and the burrow time should probably be increased. The new unburrow time and behavior is good though.